Constance Marten and Mark Gordon Case #5

[KatieMorag]

Constance is just yet another woman who cares more about a bad man than about her own children. Did you see her outrage when they were daring to arrest her beloved Mark. The dramatics! 'Oh my god, I can't, I can't watch! Leave him alone! He's not well! Let him eat his food... he's starving! Daddy Bear!'

Where was that kind of passion and care for her baby daughter while she was alive? Where was that level of distress when they were asking her about her tiny, recently deceased baby girl? She is beyond callous. And no - don't buy the 'not well' comments either. Some people are just callous. she prioritised the person she cared about most - and it most certainly wasn't poor baby girl.

 

[MmmB777]

Loved you in their own way - the abusive husband that beat you up for decades whenever they wanted to. Broke your bones. In front of their kids.
Loved you in their own way- the parent that enjoyed belittling, taunting and emotionally abusing you to the point you’re left as an adult with a lifetime of mental health issues.
Loved you in their own way - the parent that put their drug use above your starving stomach. Put their boyfriend before their own child being abused by said boyfriend. That married said boyfriend despite knowing what they do.
Loved you in their own way- the parent that was so neglectful and selfish that they would rather you freeze to death, scream for hours and finally turn to mush in a lidl bag.
Gaslighting absolute bullshit.
There is making mistakes, nobody is perfect. There is realising you should have done things differently and then doing what you can to make amends. There are forgivable mistakes and actions in times of total personal breakdown that do not show a pattern of abuse and are worked upon.
These two ain’t that.

What is it about keeping the baby with them despite it causing her her actual death is indicative of “love” in any kind of way. There are all sorts of awful nefarious reasons they could have wanted that baby with them at all costs. Ranging from the bizarre to the downright depraved (we are talking about an incredibly violent sex offender). Keeping her with them is the reason she is dead. It’s an utter insult to the baby to call it love in my opinion.
What about the other children they kept in the exact same conditions who are only alive because they were taken away means that they were capable of love? If keeping this baby with them to the point she died is “loving her in their own way” - were they just not fond of the baby they couldn’t be fucked with and left in a hospital then? They literally don’t appear to care less in their arrest video. They literally say why does it matter and argue the toss. The baby is fucking referred to as “evidence” by her own mother. It’s rancid.
And no, me saying this isn’t stopping anybody from having their own opinion so please scroll on by and don’t @ me. Anybody can have any opinion they like and I couldn’t care less about said opinion but it is absolutely my opinion that describing what they did as “love”is a grotesque misuse of the word in any context and an insult to what the baby went through which was likely a slow, terrifying, painful and undignified death. If somebody is telling you that they are loving you in their own way but they are abusing and neglecting you to the point you could or actually do die - spoiler - they don’t love you.

 

[KatieMorag]

I genuinely envy people who can't understand that there are selfish, nasty, egotistical, callous people in the world, who treat their children like possessions, or like meaningless garbage. I think if you had more knowledge of some of the types of people that come to the attention of SS you'd know that there are Constance Martens and Mark Gordons all over the place - these two are only in the news because they took it to extremes and because of their unusual background. They don't need to be explained away with 'illness' - they just are a version of a type of person that exists all over the place, and does harm to numerous children by prioritising their own selfish wants every single day. I'd LOVE to be so naive as to say that 'they must have loved her really' and that anyone who lives in squalor or treats a child badly must be ill. No - they are exactly who they are.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I know it’s not funny but I am laughing at her giving her fake name as arabella. Posh twat

 

[Traazers]

Ffs the bitchiness on this thread is atrocious. I’m trying to follow the case can we just stick to the topic and stop the indirects it’s pathetic

 

[dramaqween]

this thread is getting ridiculous. you can be disgusted by a crime whilst also recognising how problematic the american prison system is especially for a young black boy. it’s not one or the other.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

All children should be with their birth family, in a loving and stable home.

Children removed from birth parents suffer with trauma, attachment disorder, amongst other struggles, so yes they should be with their birth family.

That doesn’t mean they can be. Sometimes, remaining with birth parents is more traumatic than removal would be. Sometimes it’s not a safe environment where a child can develop a secure attachment, and sometimes removal is the ‘best’ thing - even though it brings other difficulties.

Should and can aren't the same.

 

[MmmB777]

Talking about how good his food is whilst the police are asking about their very recently deceased child. These two are just scum of the earth. It’s not about being rational or irrational. They’re absolute fucking arseholes and it’s as simple as that. Think about your brand new baby that’s recently died, rotting away in a carrier bag, whilst you just play games with police and think you’re being funny and clever just hope they get the sentence they deserve.

 

[Emsie]

I don't think they deliberately killed Victoria as in, it was the plan all along to murder her. I think they are deluded and negligent and social services were right all along.

 

[Here2BNosey]

I'm a mother of multiple children, my younger being just a young baby. I was pregnant when this happened last year. I think the biggeat part of me thought that Constance was just desperate to be with and keep her baby, like I could understand that NEED to be with them, love them, care for them, protect them. I couldn't understand the pain of being separated ever from my babies and not seeing them again, the thought of it is too much to bear. But that isn't it, is it. What she did didn't come from that place of love and nurture, a physical need to be with your baby. The CCTV footage from the last week or so just absolutely blows my mind, you cannot defend the indefensible. I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say here apart from she isn't like us, is she? There's something seriously amiss and that poor baby was just used as a pawn in their sick games. I wish it was how I had imagined, more than anything else. That Victoria had felt love and warmth and protection from her mother in even those awful circumstances she endured.

 

[Allmyownopinion]

I could cry looking at the pictures of that bag……they took their tiny baby’s body, who they killed & threw it in a bag with rubbish & seeing it laid out makes it feel all the more horrific. Then the filthy, foul, despicable rats sat round drinking beer & eating piles of sweet treats while she rotted away under that rubbish. Please don’t try & convince yourselves this is love. This is the lowest form of disrespect, cruelty & actually hatred. Love would be not being able to go on finding your child dead & handing yourself in & pleading guilty to what you’ve caused, or at the very least trying to protect her tiny remains by placing her carefully to rest somewhere nice & peaceful. Swigging their beers & stuffing the empty cans on top of their baby girls rotting body tells you everything about the evil inside these 2. Please god the jury just look at that & don’t try to explain it away as “love”

 

[MmmB777]

I think a large part of their reasoning was to do with hiding evidence. They even admitted to discussing and acting on it (the petrol).
They may have had difficulty parting with her body, but considering decomposition, it would have been more respectful to bury her with some dignity, even if there was a risk of exposure, which could well have happened with the other methods you described, They couldn’t even do right by her in that respect.
You’re correct there may be an element of (being generous) care in what they decided to do, but, by their own admission, they were also considering other aspects regarding how to deal with her body.

Exactly. Cuntstance even uses the phrase “hide the evidence” in her police interview when discussing planning to set alight the corpse of her tiny baby. I’m not sure what else is needed to be seen or heard to know that they are both absolute ghouls.
Just imagine your little baby has only recently died and someone is repeatedly saying to you “where is the baby? Where is your baby?” Please just imagine treating that as a stubborn little game and not being utterly heartbroken at hearing those words, hearing someone referring to your little darling baby, asking where they are? No no not this pair of shitbags, they are asking for mayo and giving it the biggun and saying “what does it matter”. And now we’re supposed to believe that loss meant something to these sickos? They cared nothing for her in life and nothing for her in death.

 

[windowlickinggood]

I'm way behind so apologies if this has been said but for me, I am seeing maternal instinct. Just the wrong instinct. Actually, parental instinct as it applies to both of them.
They feel that they were protecting their child from social services and removal and they are correct, all children should be with their birth families.
But they were not protecting her, they endangered her and ended her life. If Victoria was removed at birth the irony is that she would still be alive and CM and MG would probably be having some sort of contact with her.
They will never see that they are the problem. They are the unsafe people. And that, imo, at the root cause is nothing more the selfishness. Too selfish to put their child first as their need was greater.

No, not all children should be with their birth families. There are situations where this is absolutely NOT in the best interests of the child. This situation being the obvious one.

 

[Here2BNosey]

Sorry to clarify it was the, "What's the big deal?" comment from MG I was specifically referring to.
"Is the baby alive?"
"What's the big deal?"

How is it not a big deal whether the baby is alive of dead? Why would anyone even think to respond in that way to that question. I can think of 10 million other more appropriate responses that don't include answering the question. Was she really that worthless to him... no big deal whether she lived or died? It made me feel sick and want to cry all at once reading it.

 

[Airhead93]

All children should be with their birth family, in a loving and stable home.

Children removed from birth parents suffer with trauma, attachment disorder, amongst other struggles, so yes they should be with their birth family.

That doesn’t mean they can be. Sometimes, remaining with birth parents is more traumatic than removal would be. Sometimes it’s not a safe environment where a child can develop a secure attachment, and sometimes removal is the ‘best’ thing - even though it brings other difficulties.

Should and can aren't the same.

This I have abandoned issues due to being taken in to care at 3 nearly 4 and adopted at 5 but if I hadn’t been removed I would of ended up seriously hurt or worse had I not been removed

 

[Here2BNosey]

Of everything I've read so far in the court case this absolutely horrified me the most. I don't know why it's probably because it's like an insight into how little care they really had. I want to understand, I want to feel like there was a reason and it was all out of love, however misguided and misplaced that was but this? Oh that poor poor baby, I just cannot at all. Utterly selfish bastards.

 

[MmmB777]

Have I missed where they’ve submitted a guilty due to diminished responsibility plea? Would that not be a more appropriate stance for ‘mad’ people? How can they have it both ways?
Yes, the baby is dead but where is the respect for her remains? Is there no longer an obligation to answer questions because someone is dead?
It’s all a bit medieval to allow your baby to die from exposure in the middle of winter.

Yeah call me old fashioned but letting your newborn freeze in the depths of winter, smothering her in a coat to protect your self and own interests, keeping children in terrible outdoor conditions despite repeated advice on the matter and full knowledge of the serious danger it brings to a new baby’s life, carrying a newborn around in a plastic bag, taking them on long journeys in cars with zero regard to their safety, leaving your baby to rot under a pile of rubbish… is really fucking callous

 

[lampielooloo]

I’d always had the impression they’d abandoned the baby in the shed and moved away, it seems a little less callous if they were living in the shed with her, keeping her close.

How? What is kind or caring about any of their behaviour? Everything they did with the baby put her in danger, no medical intervention, no car seats, sleeping rough, carrying inappropriately inside layers, fuck all clothes, sleeping inappropriately, carrying her in a shopping bag ffs. Denying her the warmth of a cot, safety, basic childcare. How is that not callous? Storing her body in a disused shed in a bag under rubbish, and denying her a proper burial, an autopsy, that's not kind or caring, it's callous, frightening, cruel and inhumane. It's hiding the evidence. It all feels like one big fuck you to The Man, to social services, to the authorities. SS were right to want to separate them at birth, they are not fit to be parents.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

CM admitted that they’d bought the petrol to cremate her.
WARNING:
Not to put too fine a point on it, she would have started to decompose, the cold notwithstanding, and probably liquify, especially when in 2 plastic bags. Stink too.
Where’s the dignity in death? Where’s the respect?
I think at this point they were mainly hiding
evidence.

 

[Here2BNosey]

Thread opening well done, very concise @InTheDollsHouse.

Couple of points on my mind not really related to the court case.

Firstly of all the things that they did so foolishly, the one thing I absolutely cannot get my head around is, why on earth did CM not leave the country when she had the chance? She had a passport, money, and access to a guarantee ongoing income. Seriously who in that position wouldn't leave while it was easy. She was pregnant but even if port authorities could see they wouldn't be able to stop her as there were no court orders on her. As for Gordon, surely with all her cash he could have secured dodgy documentation fron somewhere and even followed later. I mean in her position if I was gonna do what she was thinking of doing, too right I'd be outta there before anyone had a chance to stop me. Even if the car didn't set on fire and she lost her passport, how's she getting an unregistered newborn out through passport control, yet they went to Liverpool and Harwich after she was born, it doesn't make any sense at all. Unless they weren't going to leave the country until they were 'wanted' but still how they gonna live their lives in this country with a whole child who officially doesn't exist, it's truly bizarre.
Secondly I do think with hindsight (yes I know it's a wonderful thing) the handling of this case by police and media alike was a little gung ho. They were made like frightened rabbits with nowhere to hide which sadly led to them making the absolute foolish and utterly tragic choices that they did. Not to vindicate them of any blame as the responsibility for the decisions is all theirs but perhaps if the police had kept their cards a bit closer to their chests, put traces on the bank accounts, alerts to ports, hospitals etc they could maybe have tracked them with more intelligent surveillance and maybe that baby might have had a chance. I'm sure many will disagree but I don't think the media circus was or is the right way to go when it involves someone so vulnerable, as the baby.