Clementine Ford

[loveinfluenzas]

I’ve been waiting for a Clem thread - long post ahead sorry! I’m super torn about her - I enjoy her arguments but totally agree that she ignores nuance. I find her frustratingly condescending, as if us poor little women (whom she hasn’t deemed worthy of her feminist crown) need her to guide us. She talks down to her audience, with an approach that ignores our own autonomy, circumstances and ability to assess our own situations. It ironically reminds me of the approach that conspiracy nut jobs take, that smug “well you wouldn’t understand, you are simply blind to x and y” - as if those of us that dare to disagree with her lack critical thinking skills. I think it would be exhausting being her friend with her holier than thou approach - the whole time you’d be nervous that she might publish a public call-out or throw you under the bus.

My partner and I are educated from top universities. Shockingly, he is receptive (and has initiated discussions about) to discussions regarding the mental load, weaponised incompetence and domestic inequality - concepts that she did not invent, but seems to think she is the spokesperson for. Marriage is something we have discussed and are excited for (and no, de facto does not provide identical privileges). We complement each other, respect and love each other in a way that is different (but not less than) than that provided in a platonic friendship. Yes, I am sure my partner is a rare find but he is the nuance, the grey and genuinely improves my life - something she seems to think doesn’t exist or, more frustratingly, that he (and my beliefs about him) are a mirage, and I’m too stupid to realise that. That I need her, in her top feminist of feminism glory to show silly little me the truth - or rather her version of the truth. Honestly, sometimes I find her exhausting.

Agree with alot of your post however will say - if you and your husband attended top universities, then you likely have a level of privilege that others don't have and therefore don't require Clem to advocate on your behalf. But others without the education or privilege probably find Clems advocacy beneficial at times. Not sure if that makes sense but just a thought.

Also re your marriage privilege comment, I'm genuinely interested to know what the privileges are compared to being in a de facto relationship?

 

[snarkyshark]

Agree with alot of your post however will say - if you and your husband attended top universities, then you likely have a level of privilege that others don't have and therefore don't require Clem to advocate on your behalf. But others without the education or privilege probably find Clems advocacy beneficial at times. Not sure if that makes sense but just a thought.

Also re your marriage privilege comment, I'm genuinely interested to know what the privileges are compared to being in a de facto relationship?

Totally agree! We are incredibly privileged! I guess that comment was to show that we have access to the materials she seems to think only she does. We have literally learnt about feminism waves and certainly don’t need her to advocate for us! My point (very poorly articulated haha) that it’s it’s exhausting to have her tell us that we haven’t engaged (or aren’t capable of engaging) with her view on these topics when we disagree, when the reality is we’ve had literal uni materials on it!!

Re marriage - I’m no expert but there are differences if your partner dies or if you separate - you need to prove the relationship existed, whereas with marriage you don’t. Also, heaps of countries do not recognise de facto relationships, which obvs has travel implications (obvs I recognise that lots of countries don’t accept non-heterosexual marriage too) if you want to move/travel/work etc.

 

[therealsmilf]

I’ve been waiting for a Clem thread - long post ahead sorry! I’m super torn about her - I enjoy her arguments but totally agree that she ignores nuance. I find her frustratingly condescending, as if us poor little women (whom she hasn’t deemed worthy of her feminist crown) need her to guide us. She talks down to her audience, with an approach that ignores our own autonomy, circumstances and ability to assess our own situations. It ironically reminds me of the approach that conspiracy nut jobs take, that smug “well you wouldn’t understand, you are simply blind to x and y” - as if those of us that dare to disagree with her lack critical thinking skills. I think it would be exhausting being her friend with her holier than thou approach - the whole time you’d be nervous that she might publish a public call-out or throw you under the bus.

My partner and I are educated from top universities. Shockingly, he is receptive (and has initiated discussions about) to discussions regarding the mental load, weaponised incompetence and domestic inequality - concepts that she did not invent, but seems to think she is the spokesperson for. Marriage is something we have discussed and are excited for (and no, de facto does not provide identical privileges). We complement each other, respect and love each other in a way that is different (but not less than) than that provided in a platonic friendship. Yes, I am sure my partner is a rare find but he is the nuance, the grey and genuinely improves my life - something she seems to think doesn’t exist or, more frustratingly, that he (and my beliefs about him) are a mirage, and I’m too stupid to realise that. That I need her, in her top feminist of feminism glory to show silly little me the truth - or rather her version of the truth. Honestly, sometimes I find her exhausting.

I agree with a lot of this too. And I generally agree with her takes on marriage. I'm divorced and I have a wonderful partner now, and like yours, he's aware of his privilege and he's committed to sharing the mental and domestic load with me. We are looking to move in together later this year and despite how wonderful he is, I do sometimes worry that living together will see us end up arguing and resentful about domestic life, in all the ways Clementine shines a light on.

I do find her too full on sometimes and I don't agree with her takes on everything. But I do think she does a lot of good work and highlights so many crappy things about men and the patriarchy that deserve calling out. I've learned a lot from following her and her books. She does hyper fixate on things and I don't follow every slide of hers much anymore, I often skim through. But I still get something from her content.

 

[Mickybrowneyes]

Clem would think I’m the biggest loser I’m sure. My partner moved in with me about 4 months ago and it’s been wonderful having someone there with me at nights and someone to discuss my days with. I also do a lot of the household tasks as I work part time and his hours are very long but there are days I don’t do most of the household chores and my partner will just swoop in and do them for us. It’s equally shared.

 

[savefloss]

Clem would think I’m the biggest loser I’m sure. My partner moved in with me about 4 months ago and it’s been wonderful having someone there with me at nights and someone to discuss my days with. I also do a lot of the household tasks as I work part time and his hours are very long but there are days I don’t do most of the household chores and my partner will just swoop in and do them for us. It’s equally shared.

She definitely has a one size fits all to men. My husband was raised by a single mother and totally gets it. An absolute legend across all fronts that I’m sure clementine would still somehow find a problem with!!

 

[Michy02]

Clem would think I’m the biggest loser I’m sure. My partner moved in with me about 4 months ago and it’s been wonderful having someone there with me at nights and someone to discuss my days with. I also do a lot of the household tasks as I work part time and his hours are very long but there are days I don’t do most of the household chores and my partner will just swoop in and do them for us. It’s equally shared.

That’s your life and relationship and if it makes you happy then it’s no one else’s business!

 

[JustTrollin]

I have known of Clem for a while. I came across her because she and Helen Razer used to argue a lot on Twitter I haven’t looked at her stuff for ages, but I didn’t like her style of posting provocative statements on social media and creating content from disagreements and rude comments, and dragging the drama on and on. A lot of online social justice types seem to do this. How does this help anyone?

I briefly met her in person years ago where she wasn’t “on” and she seemed friendly and normal. I am shocked at the recent photos of her with work done, she looks so different now.

 

[atome74]

I have known of Clem for a while. I came across her because she and Helen Razer used to argue a lot on Twitter I haven’t looked at her stuff for ages, but I didn’t like her style of posting provocative statements on social media and creating content from disagreements and rude comments, and dragging the drama on and on. A lot of online social justice types seem to do this. How does this help anyone?

I bloody miss Helen Razer fighting people on twitter! But I don't think it's good for anyone's mental health. I think screencaps of arguments just make for the absolute lowest grade of content but it's all about engagement numbers. I'm totally guilty of reading this tit when my brain is close to done for the day. Oh hi Tattle.life

 

[Emilyemily99]

Great post. What is weaponised incompetence?

It’s doing something (like domestic labour) deliberately and wilfully badly so that you don’t have to do it again. Maybe a partner suggests you do the bedtime routine because ‘you do it better’ and if you put your foot down then they sabotage their own effort by razzing the kids up instead of settling them so you don’t ask again. Things like ‘I can’t cook’ knowing full well that YouTube and the internet exist for foolproof recipes.

Sheesh, I feel like I’m mansplaining on the Clem Ford thread.

 

[melfish]

It’s doing something (like domestic labour) deliberately and wilfully badly so that you don’t have to do it again. Maybe a partner suggests you do the bedtime routine because ‘you do it better’ and if you put your foot down then they sabotage their own effort by razzing the kids up instead of settling them so you don’t ask again. Things like ‘I can’t cook’ knowing full well that YouTube and the internet exist for foolproof recipes.

Sheesh, I feel like I’m mansplaining on the Clem Ford thread.

I should have googled it, so I appreciate your even responding

 

[emmygluewho]

I know this will go against what most think of Clem BUT I just find her a miserable, bitter person.

 

[Pollie]

I know this will go against what most think of Clem BUT I just find her a miserable, bitter person.

Same! Imagine going out for dinner with clementine and Carly Findlay LOL
Oooff they are so angry

 

[BumbleBeeMarmalade]

Same! Imagine going out for dinner with clementine and Carly Findlay LOL
Oooff they are so angry

Are they friends?

 

[Pollie]

Are they friends?

Carly was just at Clementines birthday or some sort of party a couple of weeks ago,

 

[justjumpingonhere]

Carly Findlay is the worst. She’s an awful nasty person. Clem surrounds herself with trolls.

 

[cashedupbogan]

I would expect a writer to know the difference between “apart” and “a part”

 

[livelaughlauren]

I’ve actually enjoyed some of Clem’s commentary around marriage (and I’m saying that as a married woman!), but this just feels really mean. I don’t see the need to put some girl on blast who Clem (presumably) doesn’t even know?

 

[melfish]

I’ve actually enjoyed some of Clem’s commentary around marriage (and I’m saying that as a married woman!), but this just feels really mean. I don’t see the need to put some girl on blast who Clem (presumably) doesn’t even know?

Wow, that is ducked up. She's awful

 

[atome74]

I’ve actually enjoyed some of Clem’s commentary around marriage (and I’m saying that as a married woman!), but this just feels really mean. I don’t see the need to put some girl on blast who Clem (presumably) doesn’t even know?

Straight up bullying.
Her thoughts in bed do not contain a single unique idea. She sounds like a first year uni student who just discovered cultural studies.

 

[emmygluewho]

I’ve actually enjoyed some of Clem’s commentary around marriage (and I’m saying that as a married woman!), but this just feels really mean. I don’t see the need to put some girl on blast who Clem (presumably) doesn’t even know?

She is such a bitter, miserably bleep.