Caroline Flack

[KINGAA]

One thing I struggle with in this case is the general message that it sends about suicide. I worked with a lot of people in mental health crisis as a nurse, although I would by no means consider myself an expert.

When Thirteen Reasons Why came out a few years ago, and Hannah was pictured using her suicide in part to get 'revenge' on those around her, there was UPROAR. Everyone seemed to be talking about the terrible message this was sending to young people, that suicide was in any way a solution to your problems and that you could use it to take control of the narrative about yourself. There was a girl at my school who killed herself aged about 15, and after an initial sadness the whole case just faded from most people's minds. I remember thinking that the fact everyone was still so focussed on Hannah so long after she had died was completely unrealistic.

That seems to be exactly what has happened with Caroline. By ending her life when she did, she has become a tragic figure and garnered all of the sympathy. Before she died, she was a pariah: a domestic abuser, her career over. Now she is seen as the victim of a predatory court case (whether or not that is true I don't know) and remembered far more for the positive things that she did in the spotlight. Episodes of shows are being dedicated to her, and numerous celebrities have voiced their sympathy. I cannot imagine that if she had lived and been tried for domestic assault that she would have ever come back to the point of being seen so positively in the media.

I worry about the message this sends to vulnerable individuals, that suicide is a 'solution' to your problems and can avoid bringing shame on your family and loved ones. No one seems to be talking about this when it comes to Caroline.

This is always the case when famous people die (mostly) they become legends and people forget anything they did wrong.

Take Naya Rivera for example - she wasn’t a particularly nice person, she was a domestic abuser and her husband only dropped the case because she paid him and gave him a lot of money in the divorce. She had anger issues and lashed out at her exes and did damage to their property etc... if you read her book she is no angel, far from it yet people are acting like she was perfect person.

It’s a strange thing people do with celebrities and I don’t know why!

 

[Oohthedrama]

One thing I struggle with in this case is the general message that it sends about suicide. I worked with a lot of people in mental health crisis as a nurse, although I would by no means consider myself an expert.

When Thirteen Reasons Why came out a few years ago, and Hannah was pictured using her suicide in part to get 'revenge' on those around her, there was UPROAR. Everyone seemed to be talking about the terrible message this was sending to young people, that suicide was in any way a solution to your problems and that you could use it to take control of the narrative about yourself. There was a girl at my school who killed herself aged about 15, and after an initial sadness the whole case just faded from most people's minds. I remember thinking that the fact everyone was still so focussed on Hannah so long after she had died was completely unrealistic.

That seems to be exactly what has happened with Caroline. By ending her life when she did, she has become a tragic figure and garnered all of the sympathy. Before she died, she was a pariah: a domestic abuser, her career over. Now she is seen as the victim of a predatory court case (whether or not that is true I don't know) and remembered far more for the positive things that she did in the spotlight. Episodes of shows are being dedicated to her, and numerous celebrities have voiced their sympathy. I cannot imagine that if she had lived and been tried for domestic assault that she would have ever come back to the point of being seen so positively in the media.

I worry about the message this sends to vulnerable individuals, that suicide is a 'solution' to your problems and can avoid bringing shame on your family and loved ones. No one seems to be talking about this when it comes to Caroline.

it’s such a difficult topic, even on here you need to walk on egg shells, look further up this thread alone, because someone didn’t say in their comment that depression was a mental illness, someone got offended.

suicide is a difficult topic, it does almost absolve you of all sins because you can’t speak negatively about the dead.

I don’t know Caroline, none of us do, i can’t speak about her case because my information comes from the mail

I think there are some very unwell people who “attempt” suicide for sympathy or attention, or because they ducked up but they don’t want to live with the consequences.

I don’t think that’s what happened with Caroline this time, I think she planned to go.
I don’t think that happens all the time, just so nobody jumps on me I STILL think they are mentally unwell when they do this.

but as a topic of conversation it’s interesting to see how the “hunted” became the “protected” so quickly after her suicide.
And if something was to happen now, if the new girlfriend or the ex end up doing something after the mums comment, out of guilt....

as I said it’s a mess

 

[Jumperoo62]

it’s such a difficult topic, even on here you need to walk on egg shells, look further up this thread alone, because someone didn’t say in their comment that depression was a mental illness, someone got offended.

suicide is a difficult topic, it does almost absolve you of all sins because you can’t speak negatively about the dead.

I don’t know Caroline, none of us do, i can’t speak about her case because my information comes from the mail

I think there are some very unwell people who “attempt” suicide for sympathy or attention, or because they ducked up but they don’t want to live with the consequences.

I don’t think that’s what happened with Caroline this time, I think she planned to go.
I don’t think that happens all the time, just so nobody jumps on me I STILL think they are mentally unwell when they do this.

but as a topic of conversation it’s interesting to see how the “hunted” became the “protected” so quickly after her suicide.
And if something was to happen now, if the new girlfriend or the ex end up doing something after the mums comment, out of guilt....

as I said it’s a mess

IMO Caroline has turned from “hunted” to “protected” because her actions were bad but not bad enough that she deserved to feel like she should die. She was no angel but she went through an unbearable amount of bullying and scrutiny because of her actions. If she was already mentally unstable then she dealt with a lot more than most people ever will.

I know Caroline died because of the choices she made but the build up of negative media, stalking by the press, actions of police, online bullying, prosecution, Lewis, passed boyfriends and loss of her job all combined to help her justify her suicidal feelings. Of course no individual is responsible for her death but individuals did perhaps contribute to that emotional build up. I think that may be why her Mum is lashing out. (Although I don’t think that is her on Instagram.)

I don’t think she committed suicide as punishment. I think she did it because she couldn’t cope. A large section of the public can see she went through an unbearable amount of stress and bullying that far outweighed her actions. They feel sorry for her so they become protective.

 

[Jkay]

Since when did the media need solid evidence to print stories they print bull all the time

Not with as something as simple as this that could be easily refuted, and a claim for damages brought forward by her

 

[Jumperoo62]

Not with as something as simple as this that could be easily refuted, and a claim for damages brought forward by her

The press do things like this all the time with little concern about defamation or damages. Usually they are made to print a small apology in an obscure spot.

 

[VomitCulture]

it’s such a difficult topic, even on here you need to walk on egg shells, look further up this thread alone, because someone didn’t say in their comment that depression was a mental illness, someone got offended.

are you talking about my comment? I wasn’t offended at all

 

[Notredamn]

An inquest is held in a court presided by a judge. It is part of our legal system
It was found at the inquest, that Lewis rang the police to spite and punish Flack for going through his phone. It was heard and acknowledged that she did not attack him. Of course the mum doesn't like him.

 

[Suzesnooze]

An inquest is held in a court presided by a judge. It is part of our legal system
It was found at the inquest, that Lewis rang the police to spite and punish Flack for going through his phone. It was heard and acknowledged that she did not attack him. Of course the mum doesn't like him.

I haven't seen any of that on the reporting of the inquest?

He fell asleep, she went through his phone and found messages between him and another woman. She then hit him with the phone to wake him up and start arguing. She had also self harmed and that's where most of the blood came from. She admitted to the Police she hit him but when they took her to the station she changed her story and said she didn't hit him she just tapped him with the phone but he did have an injury on his head.

 

[Notredamn]

I haven't seen any of that on the reporting of the inquest?

He fell asleep, she went through his phone and found messages between him and another woman. She then hit him with the phone to wake him up and start arguing. She had also self harmed and that's where most of the blood came from. She admitted to the Police she hit him but when they took her to the station she changed her story and said she didn't hit him she just tapped him with the phone but he did have an injury on his head.

The info is all out there, most of it came from Lewis himself, there was no attack. There was no court case regarding the alleged attack, either as she died. No conviction. Everything reported other than the actual evidence heard at the inquest is literally hearsay and gossip. She died an innocent woman. Unfortunately lobbing a phone/cracking a lamp at/on her bf seems to be lodged in the public's collective psyche. That's the media for you.

 

[Moley1]

The info is all out there, most of it came from Lewis himself, there was no attack. There was no court case regarding the alleged attack, either as she died. No conviction. Everything reported other than the actual evidence heard at the inquest is literally hearsay and gossip. She died an innocent woman. Unfortunately lobbing a phone/cracking a lamp at/on her bf seems to be lodged in the public's collective psyche. That's the media for you.

I think that you are mistaken. I don’t think that there is any disputing that she hit him while he slept. She admitted it. The only dispute is what with. There were rumours that it was a lamp but later it became the phone. He had an injury to his head. As for being innocent. She wasn’t found to be innocent as there was no trial. Whilst she was also not found guilty, saying that she was innocent of the crime she was charged with is not true. Without a trial no conclusion can be reached either way.

 

[Notredamn]

Suicide is a lone act which no one else is responsible for. Caroline had mental health issues. But Lewis knew this. He knew this when he told her, 'you're ducked.' and started the whole snowball. It was found that Caroline died because she was inconsolable about the court case against her (which Lewis knew she would be before he backtracked- by which time it was too late). It was the cause of her rapid decline. Two people were in the situation. One is dead, the other isn't living like an instaceleb unapologetically. And people don't know why Caroline's mum isn't all for him :/

I think that you are mistaken. I don’t think that there is any disputing that she hit him while he slept. She admitted it. The only dispute is what with. There were rumours that it was a lamp but later it became the phone. He had an injury to his head. As for being innocent. She wasn’t found to be innocent as there was no trial. Whilst she was also not found guilty, saying that she was innocent of the crime she was charged with is not true. Without a trial no conclusion can be reached either way.

No. You're mistaken. I work in the legal system. What she said or didn't say, whilst in the state she was in, without a solicitor present, is irrelevant.
You can't be 'found innocent' in the UK. You are innocent unless proven guilty. She died an innocent woman.
It was quite surprising the CPS chose to pursue the case but that's neither here nor there as they did, for their own reasons (not reasons which usually meet the threshold). But she wasn't convicted of any crime.

 

[Suzesnooze]

An inquest is held in a court presided by a judge. It is part of our legal system
It was found at the inquest, that Lewis rang the police to spite and punish Flack for going through his phone. It was heard and acknowledged that she did not attack him. Of course the mum doesn't like him.

Can you quote where you read this as I can't find it anywhere online in transcripts of the inquest?

 

[Notredamn]

Can you quote where you read this as I can't find it anywhere online in transcripts of the inquest?

No, as I read it when it happened, it was also reported on at the time. So maybe google a newspaper name, key phrases like 'you're ducked', inquest etc. I have no interest in reading through it again but im sure it will be available somewhere.

 

[Jumperoo62]

No, as I read it when it happened, it was also reported on at the time. So maybe google a newspaper name, key phrases like 'you're ducked', inquest etc. I have no interest in reading through it again but im sure it will be available somewhere.

Can you quote where you read this as I can't find it anywhere online in transcripts of the inquest?

Here is a link from an earlier thread.

Caroline Flack lover Lewis Burton told her 'you're f****d' before ringing police

Caroline Flack's boyfriend Lewis Burton told the TV star "you're f***ed" before ringing the police to report her for assaulting him while she was sleeping, the inquest heard yesterday

www.dailystar.co.uk

 

[Moley1]

Suicide is a lone act which no one else is responsible for. Caroline had mental health issues. But Lewis knew this. He knew this when he told her, 'you're ducked.' and started the whole snowball. It was found that Caroline died because she was inconsolable about the court case against her (which Lewis knew she would be before he backtracked- by which time it was too late). It was the cause of her rapid decline. Two people were in the situation. One is dead, the other isn't living like an instaceleb unapologetically. And people don't know why Caroline's mum isn't all for him :/


No. You're mistaken. I work in the legal system. What she said or didn't say, whilst in the state she was in, without a solicitor present, is irrelevant.
You can't be 'found innocent' in the UK. You are innocent unless proven guilty. She died an innocent woman.
It was quite surprising the CPS chose to pursue the case but that's neither here nor there as they did, for their own reasons (not reasons which usually meet the threshold). But she wasn't convicted of any crime.

I worked for the CPS and it is no surprise to me that the case was brought due to the evidence we have seen. They take domestic abuse cases very seriously. As for your point that she died an innocent women, again, she can only be guilty or innocent if there had been a trial. She died charged of an offence. There is no innocent or guilty about it. You make it sound like she had gone through the process and had been found innocent.

 

[Moley1]

I should have added that it is a great shame that, if Caroline Flack was innocent of the charges brought against her, that she didn’t provide her evidence to the court so that the Magistrates could have decided one way or the other.

Where did I say that you can be “found innocent”? I worked for the CPS as a paralegal manager for a number of years. If you don’t believe me that is your choice. If you worked in the legal system you will know that she did not die an innocent women as there had been no trial to prove otherwise. If you want to be pedantic about you can say that she was not found guilty, but again it is a moot point because her case did not go in front of the court.

 

[thegirlscout]

Here is a link from an earlier thread.

Caroline Flack lover Lewis Burton told her 'you're f****d' before ringing police

Caroline Flack's boyfriend Lewis Burton told the TV star "you're f***ed" before ringing the police to report her for assaulting him while she was sleeping, the inquest heard yesterday

www.dailystar.co.uk

But...she still hit him on the head with force? That is still classed as assault?

 

[Jumperoo62]

But...she still hit him on the head with force? That is still classed as assault?

It says ‘whacked’ from what I read. Given that he had been drinking all day and he was asleep I suppose it’s difficult to say whether it was with force. It wouldn’t take much force to make a head bleed profusely. I recently had a very slight bump in to a tree branch and bled profusely. It didn’t hurt at all but the Dr explained the skin is very thin. I am not sticking up for Caroline’s actions but perhaps it wasn’t as hard as it sounds or an intentional whack. He couldn’t tell if it was a lamp or a phone he was that drunk...

 

[darkcherry14k]

The inquest definitely said Caroline admitted it when the police arrived at the scene but then changed her story at the station. Wasn't the police bodycam footage going to be used in court? I remember reading this at the time somewhere? That Caroline was distraught at the prospect of this? I think they had a pretty strong case against her and she knew it.

In hindsight it's easy to blame Lewis for calling the police but if your fast asleep and then woken up by being whacked on the head and your bleeding you dont know how you'd react, it's not a normal occurrence is it? He obviously felt unsafe at the time and called the police, that what Caroline's doing, her action had consequences and I dont think it's fair to blame him for it.

 

[Girlyswot]

I think the bodycam footage was the thing that most frightened her - I think a friend/relative has mentioned this. From what has been reported (and Lewis mentioned in his awful Instagram post where he said it wasn’t his blood) - she had been self harming. There would have been footage of the result of this in the footage and this would have been detailed extensively in the press at the trial. Remember this was pre COVID and the press would (as far as she knew) have been in full attendance. Can you imagine the reporting of this? It would have been (no pun intended) a blood bath for her. She did wrong but she would have been crucified in the press at the trial and must have been terrified.