Caroline Flack #2

[Jennytea]

I listened to the mother on Spencer Matthew’s podcast and the way she says Caroline “brushed the phone off Lewis’ head” as he woke up is honestly just so unbelievable. Brushed it?!! There is absolutely zero point in even trying to rationalise anything else that comes out of her mouth if she fails at the first hurdle to acknowledge that Caroline threw a phone at her sleeping and defenceless partner and caused a wound.

The downplaying of DV in the doc and anywhere her mother talks about it is shocking. I can’t believe how outdated the attitudes are. If it was the other way around no one would be saying a woman shouldn’t have called the police. When the solicitor says in the doc he’s never known victims to drop charges. I thought ‘is he serious?’ DV victims are known for dropping charges!! He would be aware of this so it’s wild he said it on camera. Her mum also speaking to a journalist and saying they should’ve thought of Caroline before printing stories about it and should’ve considered her feelings. It is even said that Caroline offered to do ‘exclusives’ for them if they wouldn’t print anything that basically made her look bad. So you’re admitting she tried to sell exclusive stories whilst on charges for DV? It’s the news, I’m sure no one considered P Diddy or R Kelly’s feelings either when they were on trial. It’s how the news works. If either of those two hurt themselves no one would be blaming the media or police. The way she villainises Lewis and Caroline’s ex who had signed the NDA is also shocking. Her mum blames everyone for what happened even though she clearly states over and over that Caroline had very bad mental health and had tried to take her life numerous times when she was younger. It just seems hypocritical to say don’t criticise people publicly as they may take their life but then she continues to push hate against everyone involved including police officers who simply did their job.

 

[ara95_]

I think this is why her death is so hard for everybody to come to terms with. Nobody can marry the person in the media/on Instagram with supposedly such an incredible life to the person that took their life over what would ultimately be a minor assault conviction at worst.

Look at Cheryl Cole and Vicky Pattison, their careers seemingly blew up AFTER assault convictions and Cheryl especially was hounded by the press at the time. It doesn’t make sense that Caroline with her glossy way of living and larger than life personality would be so easily crushed by this, but there was a hell of a lot we didn’t know. Perhaps the press would’ve been kinder if she had been more open about her struggles. Her mum has mentioned a few times that she had been hospitalised for her mental health several times. We never knew that either. All very hard to compute

Cheryl admitted in her own book that she beat up Ashley when finding out about his cheating. This was after the nightclub incident. When she found out again, she admitted that she wanted to "chin him again". She got away with this, and when I spoke against it in her thread I had a comment or two say to me that Ashley deserved a beating for cheating and Cheryl was fair to do so. Violence against men does seem more normalised and seems to have more of a "oh get over it" attitude compared to if a man were to do it. Imagine if Cheryl cheated and Ashley admitted to wanting to chin her and that he'd actually beaten her up over it, his career would be long over

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

I really feel for Lewis that this is being dragged over the coals yet again. He's in a happy relationship, is a father and this serves no purpose other than indulging Caroline's Mum in her melancholy.

I still think she hit him with a lamp, he woke up and was terrified enough to call 999 when he's a strapping bloke who towered over her. She must have been incandescent with rage/on a drug high/drunk and he feared for his life. Brushing that under the carpet because we all need to #bekind and Caroline had MH issues? Fuck off. Abuse is NEVER acceptable in any relationship, and shame on Carolines Mum for pushing that it is.

Whilst I agree with the general point of your post, some of what you say is inaccurate. They know it was a phone not the lamp. She didn’t have any drugs in her system. These details from factual reports were released publicly.

She may have been angry but the very clear driver behind this was a significant mental health condition for which she should have sought help.

The rest of this isn't in response to your post, it's just my general thoughts.

If you reach the point where you are behaving unacceptably (in this case by assaulting someone), you have a responsibility to seek help. I realise she was embarrassed and that there was probably a a long list of other reasons she didn't feel she could but I still think she had the capacity to admit she needed help.

I think Lewis probably did behave poorly in the relationship but that doesn't make what happened any less wrong. We don't know if there had been previous incidences of that type of thing. It would be a lot to cope with.

I don't think she was a 'bad' or unpleasant person. She just wasn't able to make healthy choices. If that incident hadn't occurred or hadn't become public, it would likely have been a short lived relationship anyway because she evidently wasn't in the right head space to be able to maintain a healthy relationship.

He did absolutely the right thing not coming back from his holiday. Again, that must have been an incredibly hard position for him to be in. I'm pleased he was able to prioritise his mental wellbeing at that point.

 

[Topaz]

Genuinely never heard of this happen to one family, so sad

I've heard of it happening to some families. Their sibling's death affects them so badly. It's horribly tragic, the poor parents.

 

[ahtisyourself]

In the previous documentary made a few years back (which I feel was a far more accurate portrayal of Caroline and her struggles) her mother admitted to fearing everytime Caroline rang her that it would be one of her friends saying she had taken her life, that is how fragile she was. She said this went on for years. So why she’s now suddenly side- stepped all of that and is on the complete warpath is baffling.

 

[Sandyclaws]

And I know it's been said a lot but I think it bears repeating. Caroline wanted to keep her mental health struggles private. Now everything is splashed out in this programme. It seems disrespectful of her memory, at best, regardless of what her mother's intentions were.

This is so important for me.
Caroline died at her own hands because she didnt want her mental health issues to become public knowledge. Im nearly sure I read somewhere that she hadnt wanted it revealed the extent of her issues.
It was "bad" enough that everyone would know to some extent because of how she died.... but she was so paranoid that she had and kept several phones, to see all her innermost thoughts being revealed so publicly seems to be completely the opposite of what she wanted.

Even if the mother was trying to ease her own conscience by doing this, I think this was not the way to do it

 

[troutpout69]

That’s what I find the most sad. If she’d just attended the trial in the March, regardless of the outcome Covid hit within a matter of weeks and people were entirely preoccupied with that. They’d have moved on and forgotten about it and she’d have likely got work again and been able to put it behind her but hindsight is a wonderful thing x

I think with her mental health probs, she just couldn’t see a way to come back from it. It was like in the first channel 4 doc about her, her friends said how poorly she took splitting up from someone. They were like it’s not that bad, but to her it absolutely was!

I still don’t get how someone who has had 2 attempts on their life in a matter of weeks was not detained for her own safety.

Also surely after a suicide attention the night before, her court appearance could have been rearranged! She looked absolutely vacant during the proceedings!

 

[Chilli pepper 19]

She still assaulted him and he has every right to phone the police. You are making out it was a spilt second of madness but for someone to then cut themselves to the point theres blood all over the bed and then when taken into custody goes batshit crazy again....that's an episode and you and I have no clue if he feared she would do him more harm.

As for the photo im pretty sure he took that so she couldn't claim he had done that to her. He was the victim in this instance but she could have swung it round and said he had done that. Im sorry but if the shoe was on my foot and my partner assaulted me then started cutting themselves im sure as hell going to document it so I dont get accused of being the instigator!

It's an absolute tragedy that Caroline died but all this rewriting of the facts is wrong. Yes she was a troubled soul but she hit someone. Change the roles and if this was Lewis there would never be this conversation. She hurt someone it was wrong.

 

[LadyLockdown]

I'm the same, haven't watched anything and really only know what I do from reading here and on social media etc but what seems to come up quite a lot, is that Caroline's mother isn't able to let go of what happened and / or acknowledge Caroliine's hand in it, which makes me think that perhaps that's partly why Caroline had such a hard time accepting responsibility for things, because it was a learned behaviour from her mother; an "it's always someone else's fault" kind of mindset if you will.
And if that were the case, and her mother has, at some point, recognised her role in this, it would then make some sense to me as to why she continues to doggedly pursue this, because she feels perhaps, some degree of responsibility herself?

 

[PurvyPanda]

I sometimes compare Flack to Tara Palmer Tomkinson. Both troubled women with addiction issues, both had lots of boyfriends but never settled down and married so were kind of seen as 'tragic' figures for that reason. Neither of them especially talented but both likeable with quirky personalities and a love of the limelight. Both obviously died young and never seemed to find true contentment. I do think a lot of press regarding people like these 2 and many others is downright misogyny, I mean how on earth can an unmarried woman with no children be happy? (Deep eye roll).

Christine is in complete denial and I can understand why, but it's not healthy to keep eulogising her daughter who clearly had severe issues throughout her life.

Interesting. I too thought of another TV presenter that reminded me of Caroline’s fall from grace, and that was Paula Yates. A very colourful character, very attractive to the press, a lot of public interest in her personal life. All sunshine and rainbows when she was top of her game, but when she got involved with Hutchence, it went down hill and snowballed. The media were very venomous towards her. I remember her being on Have I Got News For You and Ian Hislop in particular being very barbed. A slow and painful decline ensued.

I loved Paula Yates. I thought she was clever and funny. I can’t say the same for Caroline i’m afraid. I kind of disliked her inability to get past the age of 25. I didn’t like the kind of shows she fronted. I did have a slight change of heart when I saw her being interviewed by Kathy Burke. She was very candid and I though quite possibly misunderstood, however that would have been partly due to a public image she had a hand in creating. I certainly thought she could do miles better than Andrew Brady, who I saw on Big Brother riding Courtney Act’s coat tails. Just a serial user and operator. It was clear to see how much the stuffing was knocked out of her during that court appearance. She looked totally bereft. And yet people continued to put the boot in. It’s a very sad case. I think with her melancholic predisposition, fame on that level was quite possibly the worst thing to happen to her.

 

[Runningblonde]

Ive just finished the doc. I was a bit surprised to learn one it wasnt a lamp, and two, the blood was actually hers. I dont remember ever seeing any article stating it wasnt Lewis' - maybe I missed it. Whilst what she did was terrible, if she wasnt who she was, lets be honest, the case wouldve been dropped. We've seen it a million times over, women who are victims of DV, are not heard - most of the time, until they've been killed. And it all comes out then that they were failed by the police

Caroline was clearly fragile, clearly hanging on by a thread even before that happened I truly believe. As soon as the tide turned in the press, she'd never have coped

I don't really understand Lewis' post though. Nothing in the doc was a lie - he did get a text from another woman, she reacted, he called the police after she said her life would be over if he did (rightly so that he did btw) He said he didnt want her to be charged, but yet he sent the bloodbath photo to his friend who then sold it. Whats he got to clarify exactly? Thats the chain of events and even though its not his fault she killed herself, thats the truth and is why it led to her not wanting to be here anymore

Why ring the police? He was hit once. He woke up. And could have just been like wtf. Could have calmed her down and spoken to her and sorted out the situation. This wasn't a frenzied attack....where his life was in danger? Not that we know of. Fair enough if he really thought she was going to kill him but I doubt it. We know he lied about the lamp. The blood wasn't even his. So why ring the police, she wasn't holding a knife to his throat that we know of. He was caught out cheating and turned it around on her, in my opinion. He even supposedly had said he was gonna ruin her. Then for social media he played the loving and doting boyfriend. Yes she shouldn't have hit him but I imagine she was so upset that he was cheating on her and she had a moment of madness where she's clipped him with her phone on his head and obviously because he's been asleep, it's probably a huge shock and makes it seem worse than it is?

The thing which gets me is the photo...imagine your partner has slit their wrists and you're alone in your partners house. You take a photo of your partners blood and send it to a mate/ex. That isn't normal behaviour either and if that photo hadn't got out, maybe it wouldn't have seemed half as bad for Caroline. Just my opinion and I know others will disagree

 

[Keera]

Yes. He could have called 101 to report abuse if he wished to do so didnt have to be 999 not that it will make a difference I guess butthere could have been anonymity. Reading the other thread he sounds like a nasty piece of work and DV isn't as always straight forward as one victim and one perpetrator. It's only my opinion and having an opinion isn't damaging at all. Let's hope all these people saying otherwise are perfect. Angels in life and will never make a mistake in their life.

I don’t believe anyone is an “angel” and certain points of your original post don’t sit right with me either (the sharing of the photo for example), but bad people can also be victims of crime.

I guess we will need to agree to disagree and I’m pleased that you are safe and privileged enough to hold the view on DV that you do! Long may it continue for you xx

 

[KJC65]

How awful to lose two of your children to suicide, with the same method. I can't imagine the pain.

 

[10%]

The news agents did an interview with her mum and it was really bad. Undermines their credibility as they took her one sided story as a universal truth.
The CPS were right to push ahead. If the genders were reversed no one would question it.
It's tragic that she took her life but the professionals involved were behaving responsibly and its worth reading the official statements rather than from someone with huge emotions attached to it.

 

[duskwithoutdawn]

After watching the documentary I just feel conflicted on it all and like most things, none of it is black and white. Was she clearly troubled and needed real intervention to get her drinking and emotions in control? Yes. Should she have been punished for hitting Lewis? Yes. But I also do believe that the police wanted to make an example of her and the press hounded her in her final weeks too. The saddest part for me really is that once lockdown and covid hit it would have all gone away fast, the press would have moved on with a pandemic to focus on, the paps wouldn’t be able to be stationed outside her house and she would have had the chance to really step back and get the help she needed. Ultimately it’s incredibly tragic and I feel terribly for her mum, but she needs to find a way to move on and put this behind her for her sake and the sake of her remaining children.

I don’t know, I think there was as much chance as any that she would’ve struggled hard with lockdown as we all did and not having any jobs to distract herself with. I think sadly with her history of attempts and mental health issues, if it wasn’t the attempt that ultimately led to her death that did it, it was going to be one further down the line.

 

[Regina2071]

Never much of a Caroline fan, but thought the whole story was incredibly sad. She certainly had demons, and this wasnt helped by being in the public eye. I think ultimately that she would have struggled at some point.
I ferl sad for her family, but don't think her mum will ever find the answers she's looking for.
I remember feeling at the time that blaming her friends for not being there, ehen they clearly had, was harsh, and listening to Lou Teasdale's podcast with Paul Brunson just makes me incredibly sad about the whole situation.
Its time to let her rest in peace and move on

 

[GrunkaLunka]

In the documentary it was confirmed he received no medical treatment though? It was in the police reports

Why do you think this is relevant? Do you think the fact that he declined treatment makes it less of a crime? There was a visible head wound. I genuinely don't understand your point.

 

[Moronic]

I said I’d be surprised if you did know before the press - not saying you’re necessarily lying about that. She received more than first aid and had to go to hospital for her injuries. He had the scratch on his head wiped with an antiseptic wipe. Not downplaying his injuries, but they were not comparable.

But he still had an injury. Which she inflicted on him. Caroline’s mum saying her injuries were worse is not comparable- she assaulted him, and then injured herself (badly by the sounds of it ) afterward.

Imagine if a man punched a woman, which might not result in any visible injury, and then self harmed to the same extent. It doesn’t absolve him of assault.

 

[banf83]

I'm the same, haven't watched anything and really only know what I do from reading here and on social media etc but what seems to come up quite a lot, is that Caroline's mother isn't able to let go of what happened and / or acknowledge Caroliine's hand in it, which makes me think that perhaps that's partly why Caroline had such a hard time accepting responsibility for things, because it was a learned behaviour from her mother; an "it's always someone else's fault" kind of mindset if you will.
And if that were the case, and her mother has, at some point, recognised her role in this, it would then make some sense to me as to why she continues to doggedly pursue this, because she feels perhaps, some degree of responsibility herself?

Not that I think it would have made any difference in the outcome, but I have always been curious as to why her mum or her siblings weren’t staying with her. Maybe they were unaware but (I might be wrong) the mum has mentioned before that Caroline had previous suicide attempts. I remember an article that came out, was it Lou or Mollie saying something along the lines of “why was it left to her friends, where were her family” before anyone comes at me, I do believe it would have happened irrelevant of who was staying with her, she would always have found away if she had her mind set on it and people can’t put their lives on hold unfortunately. But maybe this factors into feeling somewhat guilty over things.

 

[dxo]

Sad situation all round for everybody involved. It's a shame Caroline couldn't seek the help she so desperatley needed. I speak as someone who's lost a loved one to MH. When their mind is made up, they're very good at pretending they'll be okay - I don't think Caroline hid her feelings and it was pretty clear to see her downward spiral . Sadly everyone will have their demons now and their own guilt but nothing would have stopped this outcome imo. Hopefully after this documentary dies down, Caroline can be left to RIP and Mum will feel she's done what she can to 'show the truth' etc and leave other parties alone.