Brianna Ghey Murder Trial #4

[BunnyLebowsky]

A lot of people think a teenage psychopath would listen to their mum or any other adult around them. As a parent, you couldn't lock her in, that's against the law, so what would you do to contain her? Would you leave your job to make sure she didn't leave the house? Would you lock up all of your things to make sure they weren't stolen to buy a phone? How would you access her internet history if she refused to show you? We've already seen evidence that she is resourceful, so I doubt very much her parents would have been able to do anything other than involve social services if they had suspicions. The chances that she hid a lot of that stuff are high. Personally, I like to think that I would spot that something was off, but I don't know because I haven't had a kid like SJ.

If she is a psychopath/ASPD, I suspect no amount of good parenting when she was younger would fix her and no amount of restricting access to horror movies would take away her urge to do anti-social and horrific things. It's the way she's made. Her brain is wired like this. I suspect that's why the judge appeared to be saying that it was unlikely she would ever be rehabilitated.

Lack of care from the relevant authorities is a big part of the problem. School are already laying the groundwork and absolving themselves by saying they didn't know about the gummies/poisoning, SJ was quiet, and there was no bullying that they knew of...They are brushing responsibility away so it doesn't stick to them. They should have reported the incident with the gummies to the LA/council safeguarding team - both schools. That would have sparked a process that could have led to an intervention. The intervention MAY have had an effect in that she could have got early help. Schools and teachers in this case have a lot to answer for.

Also, the ableist comments by some on here are ridiculous. One autistic person can't speak for the whole autistic community.

You can be autistic, and clever, and evil, all at the same time. Autistic is not a personality type.

 

[Reversible Octopus]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but is Scarlet’s mum still a teacher?
Admittedly I’m not a parent but I don’t think she should be allowed to still be a teacher if her teenage daughter is a murderer.

Why? She didn't kill Brianna. Her life has also been ruined.

I imagine she left her job to avoid ignorance like you've stated.

 

[ChilliBean]

I feel like everyone on this thread could do with reminding what minimum term means before kicking off

 

[blueyfan3684]

Just to add, people seem really shook that Eddie’s parents brought him a knife.

Often children / YP with Autism do collect strange / unusual objects and have unusual hobbies.

It isn’t what a neurotypical person may collect / want to own but it’s not for us to judge.

Plenty of young people on the spectrum are into / obsessed with survival / prepping, playing armies etc - and use such objects as props or collect them.

Most never go on to use them as weapons or use them to murder.

It’s unacceptable to allow any teenage boy to collect knives whether it’s a special interest or not. It’s dangerous and we’re living in a epidemic of knife crime. Any responsible, decent parent would not be buying their children knives so I will 100% judge them for that. Appalling parenting.

 

[AmeliaPevensie]

A lot of people think a teenage psychopath would listen to their mum or any other adult around them. As a parent, you couldn't lock her in, that's against the law, so what would you do to contain her? Would you leave your job to make sure she didn't leave the house? Would you lock up all of your things to make sure they weren't stolen to buy a phone? How would you access her internet history if she refused to show you? We've already seen evidence that she is resourceful, so I doubt very much her parents would have been able to do anything other than involve social services if they had suspicions. The chances that she hid a lot of that stuff are high. Personally, I like to think that I would spot that something was off, but I don't know because I haven't had a kid like SJ.

If she is a psychopath/ASPD, I suspect no amount of good parenting when she was younger would fix her and no amount of restricting access to horror movies would take away her urge to do anti-social and horrific things. It's the way she's made. Her brain is wired like this. I suspect that's why the judge appeared to be saying that it was unlikely she would ever be rehabilitated.

Lack of care from the relevant authorities is a big part of the problem. School are already laying the groundwork and absolving themselves by saying they didn't know about the gummies/poisoning, SJ was quiet, and there was no bullying that they knew of...They are brushing responsibility away so it doesn't stick to them. They should have reported the incident with the gummies to the LA/council safeguarding team - both schools. That would have sparked a process that could have led to an intervention. The intervention MAY have had an effect in that she could have got early help. Schools and teachers in this case have a lot to answer for.

Also, the ableist comments by some on here are ridiculous. One autistic person can't speak for the whole autistic community.

You can be autistic, and clever, and evil, all at the same time. Autistic is not a personality type.

This. I have sympathy for her parents, albeit much less than that I feel for Esther Ghey who is clearly an incredible woman. Hats off to her, she's a better person than me.

But as the parent of an *extremely* difficult 15/16 year old, some comments here show ignorance beyond belief. Please tell me how, exactly, I - a 5ft 3 woman - should "control" a 6ft tall 16yo who refuses point blank to do something? Who goes straight to reporting completely made up abuse to school as soon as he is parented? Who continues said lies to the police? With safeguarding such a (vitally important) buzz at the moment, don't think for one minute that manipulative teenagers don't know how to play the system and control people around them. They do.

And even if you do ask for help - and I can't emphasise this enough - THERE ISN'T ANY. And you yourself will be judged and considered inadequate for even suggesting there could be something this wrong with your child.

It's deeply traumatic.

 

[churro]

My teen son has quite severe SEN / MH problems and is under Camhs, on a whole cocktail of drugs. He has weekly psychotherapy also paid for privately and we’ve had many a MH crisis and su!c!de attempt.

He has a has a bespoke EOTAS programme (education other than at school) which is funded by a personal budget and managed by me as he cannot attend school.

Despite this, thanks to meds / therapy he presents relatively normally at first glance, he’s able to mask well. But socially he’s behind and very emotionally immature and does have a darker side which is seriously worrying. I ask myself every day how I could ever live with myself as a parent if he did commit a really horrendous crime.

I, and everyone working with him do everything in our power to stop it, and I hope to god nothing horrendous ever happens to anyone at the hands of my son, but equally I am not responsible for his actions. I can only do so much to try steer him off that path, as can the professionals.

The past year we’ve had two sets of dealings with the police (in one case which my son is a suspect and the other where he has been referred to prevent which is like an anti terror scheme the police have introduced to stop those showing possible signs of radicalisation / interest in extreme views.

I didn’t expect life to pan out this way for my child, and it’s quite sad as he grows the progression. There was not nearly enough early help for my son, and many others in a similar situations. Despite calls for early intervention at a very young age in professional reports, limited resources mean that unless you can afford to go private the system will not provide. A lot of the services I’ve accessed have been privately through taking out loans or using credit cards, but this isn’t accessible to everyone - and many will assume that if the system doesn’t provide support that their child isn’t needing it.

It also is one hell of a fight, I’m lucky I only have one child so I’ve been able to put all my resources into my son and pushing and pushing for what he needs but those with multiple children, trying to juggle work etc too - I have no idea how they do it.

I don’t know what my point here is, just it’s a horrendous situation all round and sad for all involved. No one wants their child to end up a murderer, and the parents aren’t to blame, although it’s almost unreal how disconnected they were from their children. There are plenty of awful parents who’s children don’t go on to become murderers.

 

[Tofino]

I think it’s one of the most disgusting, moronic, right wing, narrow minded comments on the whole thread tbh. But we are all entitled to our opinions

For me the of this post irony is, if your child comes to you and says they feel they were born into the wrong body, you telling them to ignore it and not supporting them to explore it, is pushing your own agenda on a vulnerable kid and is a prime example of terrible parenting

If your anorexic child comes to you and tells you they are fat do you agree with them and let them have weight loss medication and surgeries? You don’t have to agree and enable your child to be supportive.

And there’s no such thing as being born in the wrong body ffs. Stop pandering to men and enabling this shit. Stop reinforcing gender stereotypes and denying the importance of biological sex. It’s harming our children. It’s harming our teens, particularly autistic ones, and it’s harming women.

 

[Halister]

I think unless you have a teenager who has ASD/ADHD/Anxiety, it’s hard to understand how little help there is out there.
Before my daughter was diagnosed (she was 16 was diagnosed), we really didn’t know what we were dealing with. She masked at Primary, things started to get increasingly difficult at high school, struggled with friendships, struggled to go into school, struggled with everything, she would have these (frankly terrifying) rages - which I now recognised as an ASD meltdown / panic attack. She would assault me, smash her room up, scream .. just awful. I did not know what the problem was, nobody mentioned ASD until she was 14.
Getting into CAMHS is hard, you have to continually fight / complain to get an appointment.. and then the next appointment etc.
There is no counselling available.. well for free. I had to find someone, and pay for weekly sessions at £65 a pop - she’s been there for 18 months, you do the maths.
GPs won’t help with under 18s, they won’t perscribe any meds, only CAMHS can do that .. but you are waiting years. My daughter is now on Sertraline, which has been a game changer.
Schools are limited in what they can do, they haven’t got the staff or budget .. thier number one priority is attendance, if your child is unable to attend, they just want you off role. There is a cycle of “new school / exclusion” .. no support going in.
The council have nothing offer .. unless it’s a fine for none attendance. They do have a statutory responsibility to provide an education, but push you to “home school”.

So what do you do, as a parent, with a child who is showing serious issues with thier mental health? No NHS services for under 18s unless it’s CAMHS who are under-resourced, with 2 year waiting lists, GPs won’t help, as they are under 18. No therapy available unless you can pay for it. Schools have neither the expertise or resources to help, and the council have no services either.

System had collapsed.

My daughter is doing really well now, but it’s been 3 years of complaints, and fights, and expense. It should not be this hard.

 

[MrsBsDayOff]

have you actually watched any of the news coverage of her mum? i'm not sure how you can think that woman failed her, she's amazing

Enabling your very vulnerable son to transition as a solution to his problems, and tolerating his oversexualised behaviour online and dressing, is not an amazing act of parenting.
In fairness to the woman maybe she was led astray by professionals and thought she was doing the right thing.
I'm not saying she was to blame for Brianna's murder, for clarity. The woman lost a child and must be going through hell. This won't make me venerate her though as some are doing.
The trans cult has a lot to answer for and in years to come, people will ask why was it tolerated that this was pushed on vulnerable kids.
I feel sorry for Brianna. None of this was a solution to her problems.

 

[BarryEvansHun]

The reason why we shouldn’t use the terms high and low functioning is it minimises ‘high functioning’ difficulties and often reduces the independence of ‘low functioning’ autistics.
Autistic women, that lead ‘normal’ life’s (high functioning) become so burnt out from masking they end up on massive sections due to psychosis drugged to the nines.
Autistic people that live in residential care do not benefit from ‘low functioning’ labels. It enables staff, also parents to just run their lives for them without giving them choices and independent experiences. And imagine being called a low functioning human being. I don’t think that is a kind nor helpful label.

 

[Stillwater]

I think their year can be entirely dreadful without diminishing the year of the parents of the victim.

 

[veggieburgerchip]

This twitter user is a journalist reporting in court right now - this tweet made me feel sick to my stomach - outright admitted she ‘enjoyed doing so’ Dirty evil scum bag cunts!!

 

[Tofino]

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
I’m not pandering to anybody. Whether your believe in being born into the wrong body or not, doesn’t mean your child won’t feel that way.
What would you do? Tell them to wise up, force them into trousers/ a skirt and sign them up for rugby/ tap dancing class. That’ll be great for their mental health and fix the whole problem and make them feel in future when they are struggling they can approach their parent for support 🫠
Are you the type that won’t let a boy have a doll, as it make you feel insecure/uncomfortable? Get a hold of yourself.
I personally don’t know how I feel about some parts of the trans debate and I never expressed any opinions or reinforced any stereotypes so I’ll wait for your apology. Let’s not forget in relation to Esther we are talking about parenting not her stance on trans children. And to me there is no doubt she was a good mother.

No, I’m the type of mum that would let my boy have a doll and tell him (if he even questioned it) it’s ok for boys to play with dolls or do any activity he wants, or wear what he wants (within dress codes like school uniform). But I would explain this doesn’t make him a girl. Because it doesn’t!

I’ve nothing to apologise for, I’m not the one trying to reinforce harmful gender stereotypes.

 

[BarryEvansHun]

I don't think it is common/ usual.

You are very naive if you think teenage drug use isn’t common or usual.
I work the welfare tent in big festivals each year, the amount of lone (more often than not the posh / well spoken tado type) 14 year olds, absolutely frothing at the brim from various chemicals that come into the welfare tent is absolutely astounding. With no parent or guardian, without any idea of what exactly they have taken. The harm reduction practices around substances in this country is horrific. IMO we need to teach young people how to take drugs properly, in proper amounts, what to do when something goes wrong, etc.
Drugs do not hold a moral compass. Taking them do not make you a good person or a bad person. They change how you feel / enhance your mood / experiences. There is no such thing as a good or bad drug. Each hold different risk profiles and some are more or less socially acceptable due to stereotypes. Realistically and statistically speaking, alcohol is the most high risk of all.
Giving your friend drugs for free or for money is still classed as dealing.
Children taking drugs doesn’t make them bad children, or more or less likely to murder. If drugs made children stab their friend to death 28 times, there would be no more children left. Drugs are rife, ‘normal’ among young people.

 

[MaryLou32]

I feel sorry for both families, imagine tonight they're sitting at home. Both have lost their daughter & son in a way, it's so so sad for all involved. I also feel sorry for Brianna's family as in 23 years or whatever it is they'll have to endure the possibility of them going for parole, like James's killers - it must be horrendous having that thought.

Scarlett's family must feel such awful guilt and "we should have realised" etc etc.. but sadly the damage is done by two evil monsters

You are absolutely right. Anyone saying they are just trying to appear in a certain way or anything along those lines is incredibly cruel.
If Scarlett’s family had said nothing - people
would be on here berating them. They can’t win.
It’s an incredibly difficult case for all families involved. Of course my ultimate sympathy lies with Brianna’s family who have lost a beautiful child and will never see her again, but there is nothing wrong with also feeling a degree of sympathy with Scarlett and Eddies families, who I’m sure are devastated with knowing their children are guilty of such a heinous crime and knowing their child will be locked up for such a long time.

 

[CrushedIcePlease]

I think it was good of Scarlett’s family to release a statement and it was nicely worded. Nothing can undo what she did but Brianna’s parents have both mentioned the lack of remorse from Scarlett and Eddie in their statements so hopefully this gives a small piece of comfort.

No idea why they bothered with the email address though and also the address itself is in kind of bad taste.

 

[lookwhatthecatdraggedin1]

Some of the messages Scarlett’s mum has received are disgusting talking about how her mum should be sexually assaulted and murdered herself for her being her daughter, no one deserves something like that it’s actually vulgar. She’s been having breakdowns to my cousin and their friends for weeks over it all on top of learning your daughter is absolutely tapped in the head

 

[hooplifehero]

Have you noticed that her Dad’s family refer to Brianna as him and Brett on his Facebook posts and he doesn’t correct them? I’m not saying that it’s wrong, they probably only knew Brianna as her former self but it’s confusing. I also feel that it was insensitive for RS to say what he said but I also think KS is making it a huge story and bringing more distressing attention on Brianna’s parents and they also have an older daughter to think of.

I have zero inclination to be generous towards Sunak, but I do feel I should be fair to him, and he didn't bring Brianna or the Ghey family into this at all. I don't think his comment would have been seen to have any connection with this murder case if Starmer hadn't tried to score points with it. He was the one who made it personal.

Isn't this parallel to, for instance, Sunak making a point that Labour had u-turned on six issues including knife crime, and Starmer shaking with SHAME, Doreen Lawrence is in the building today, you are tarnishing the memory of her son?

There's no reason to link the two otherwise, really. Sunak has a valid point about Starmer's pandering and flip-flopping, and I personally think Starmer's comments about cervixes and penises were pathetic and deserving of mockery.

None of it has anything to do with Brianna and it's surely unnecessary and hugely painful to bring the family into that debate.

I don't think trans women are 'women' in any real sense except perhaps that they are sometimes accepted into the social role of 'woman' (out of charity and fear, in my opinion). That doesn't mean that in any way I am heartless towards Brianna Ghey. I call her 'she' out of respect and sympathy under the circumstances. I can draw a distinction between my broader belief and an individual exception, personally.

 

[HotesTilaire]

I think SJ’s mum was just expressing that she started out quite naive at the time of the murder, and over the past year she’s learnt the full horror - that her daughter is a violent psycho who watched red rooms and killed for fun, lies like she breathes and is a terrible person.
Rightly or wrongly, the mum had no idea.

 

[veevee04]

I'm sick of autism being used as an excuse for the most heinous of crimes. He's very intelligent , he had friends , he could function at mainstream high school. He has learnt skills to get by , there's so many autistic people without the skills he has who would never do such a heinous thing. He's also a cunt the same as scarlett. He chose to partake in murder. He's also fucking evil because hes playing up to it to get sympathy. Luckily it hasn't worked and his sentence is 2 years shorter, some bleeding heart will try to appeal for him.

People like this promote discrimination against autistic people. He's using his neurodiversity as an excuse and all the communication aids are tools to make people feel sorry for him. He has the ability to weigh up right from wrong.