Fully agree. The first person I saw who said they’d change their vote to leave now (nothing to do with this site) actually said it out of stubbornness and fully admitted to that. She seemed to think it would ‘show them’ or teach someone some kind of lesson. Felt a lot like cutting your nose off to me
- Notice
Can't see how Theresa can stay now but no one else really wants the job. Wonder if she will finally go after everything shes worked for has come to nothing. Maybe a general election is next.
Poor woman is sucking a locket and can barely speak, she seems done with it all.
Poor woman is sucking a locket and can barely speak, she seems done with it all.
Glitterxox
New member
I think a second vote. In my opinion the referendum should never have been put forward for the public to vote. I voted to remain. There were lies on both sides to encourage people to vote either way which was totally wrong.
The government should have arranged a 'leave deal in principle and 'stay option' and people vote based on that. At the moment it's like walking into a darkened room completely blindfolded.
And don't even get me started on "project fear"...when business experts, financial experts etc were all predicting the possible dangers, I don't understand why anyone would ignore that?!?!
The government should have arranged a 'leave deal in principle and 'stay option' and people vote based on that. At the moment it's like walking into a darkened room completely blindfolded.
And don't even get me started on "project fear"...when business experts, financial experts etc were all predicting the possible dangers, I don't understand why anyone would ignore that?!?!
I’ve seen how much money the EU has invested in Wales and it’s infrastructure, I’ve seen how much it’s tried to help the poorest areas of the U.K. when our government didn’t want to, I’ve seen how much their laws and policies have helped us (environmental, workers rights). The EU has done more for the most vulnerable in our society than any government.
I have a bleak outlook because trade deals take years upon years to negotiate (from negotiating to signing on average 18 years, from negotiating to implementation 45 years (1)). We don’t have that time. The EU and it’s customs union are the best in the world, that’s why so many companies choose to deal with it. A No Deal Brexit will be a disaster, the EU won’t budge on their deal (as they rightly shouldn’t - they made their position clear and quite honestly, why should they bend over backwards for us) and the MPs said no to May’s deal. If you’re truly naive enough to believe a No deal Brexit, won’t be the worst thing to happen to this country since the economic crash, maybe even before then, you truly truly are bitter and fell for the propaganda presented by the Eurosceptics who’re only in this to make the rich richer. I’m sorry, but the Good Friday agreement (2, 3, 4), trade deals (we receive nearly 80% of our imports from the EU; we don’t produce enough of our own medications), are too serious to piss about over.
(1) https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/how-long-do-trade-deals-take-after-brexit/
(2) https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....-border-brexit-backstop-good-friday-agreement
(3) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/14/brexit-threatens-good-friday-agreement-irish-pm-warns
(4) https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....mulls-amending-good-friday-agreement-get/amp/
Yep, but at the same time I'm not surprised at all.
I wonder if Theresa is ruining her voice for good by not resting it. Might be mute by the end of the week.
I want a second vote as can't see no deal ending well. I feel like this could've been sorted ages ago though. I mean a lot of people were already asking for a second vote immediately after the first one (as they felt they'd been mislead or didn't really know what they were voting for). Its a bit worrying that its due to happen in a couple of months and nothing is properly sorted yet.
To add on, if we do leave the EU, this will inevitably cause more countries to follow, especially those with a more right wing populist party. Leaving the EU will cause an even larger wave of right wing parties taking power due to disenfranchised civilians thinking that Trump and Brexit will stop the refugee crisis and the terror attacks. The right wing parties prey upon those ideals. Brexit will cause the biggest resurgence in right wing ideals we haven’t seen in our lifetimes. The Good Friday agreement will be null and void, and that will cause so many issues and fractures with Ireland, leading to catastrophic violence. Quite frankly, as we inherently do have control over our own policies, as well as have a say in the EU’s vetos (maybe don’t vote for an MEP who doesn’t turn up to Brussels then bitches about not having a say), there’s no argument. Brexit will cause too much death, violence, and intolerance in an already uneasy society.
No, it’s fine, I just see the discontent not changing with the austerity currently seen (including, the racism/xenophobia with the wars). I don’t see leaving the EU creating a better environment, as austerity will get worse causing more disengagement with the main political parties leading to a surge in memberships to right wing groups.
H
HappyHalloween
Guest
The Government are doing this on purpose as they didn't want us to leave. They didn't expect us to be as smart as we are. We voted leave, and that is the only vote that matters. We don't keep voting until they get the answer they want! It is ridiculous.
Btw read about David Icke, he predicted this would happen. They want us all the in the New World Order, and good luck to us if they manage it. One world, one hell. It's already started with the Euro.
Btw read about David Icke, he predicted this would happen. They want us all the in the New World Order, and good luck to us if they manage it. One world, one hell. It's already started with the Euro.
MunkyMagic
Well-known member
I voted remain; was staunch remain but if we had the same question again I would now vote leave.
^ Yes, it's definitely a mess. I do understand the issue with having a second vote, even if some people think we weren't given enough information to start with. It would've been easy for those who decided to leave no matter what, I suppose. I get the impression it would be a Remain majority (only just) this time around if we had a second vote. So, we would have the same problem in that there wouldn't be a clear majority again. Leaving wouldn't be the end of the world, it's just the unknown that makes me a little fearful tbh. Just my opinion but I can't help thinking we're throwing away a good thing. It will also be annoying having to get visas now as I travel regularly to the Continent for work but I accept that's 'my problem'.
Because they fell for the propaganda. There’s absolutely categorically no benefit to leaving the EU. And if they’ve changed their minds (while they are more than entitled to), in my mind, they’re illogical and unable to look at the facts presented before them. Leave, especially no deal, will leave us without any trade deals (eg stockpiling drugs, food), a disastrous poverty crisis, leading to many unnecessary deaths and a vile racist society (right wing and xenophobic/racist attacks have been dramatically increasing since June 2016)
Right wing parties are gaining traction due to many reasons, not solely because of the EU. Look at America, Brazil, etc. These policies regarding the wars in Iraq (both of them) and Afghanistan, and the war on terror, are what’s spurred these movements, as well as inequality. The Conservative government has pissed all over the working class these past 9 years, and Tony Blair and Gordon Brown didn’t do too much better before. Again, you’re incredibly naive to say it’s solely the EU to blame for such matters, when even political scientists can’t agree. Leaving the EU will be more disastrous than remaining, regardless of populism. Right now the far right is still in the benign stage. If the economy crashes, there is a very big danger of this changing.
If there is another economic crash, Europe’s far right is ready for it | Owen Jones
It has been argued that a strong social safety net can prevent this:
Austerity Brings Extremism: Why the Welfare State Is the Key to Understanding the Rise of Europe's Far Right
Unless the very wealthy and upper middle classes are willing to pay significantly higher taxes, this is simply not happening.
It’s pretty widespread. For example in the US, the top 1% in all states captured a bigger slice of the income pie.
http://www.epi.org/files/pdf/107...
Ultimately I think that the problem is that the very wealthy did not learn the lessons of the rise of fascism in the 1930s, the French Revolution, and pretty much every other revolution. They ended because the elites in their societies mismanaged their respective societies to such an extent that people felt the need to take radical action. They did so in a move to preserve their own power and wealth over the rest.
Why Income Inequality Threatens Democracy
This Is How Income Inequality Destroys Societies
It’s been argued that rampant inequality (in a study by NASA) could lead to a collapse of society:
Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'? | Nafeez Ahmed
If so, we need to dramatically reduce inequality. Our survival as a civilization could depend on it. I think that if we were to reduce inequality, many of the social problems that society faces would just vanish.
Ironically, the Leave vote was created because people felt lied to by the EU. Guess what Leave used to win... Brexit only benefits the rich and will cause yet more inequality, leading to more right wing power.
Sorry for the double post but I've often wondered how busy Theresa May would have been without all this Brexit palaver, as Horatio has mentioned. She's more or less become Brexit Secretary herself. I'm not exactly a fan of hers or her party but I respect her for trying to sort it all out after others before her were all talk and eventually bottled it (don't get me started on Bojo waiting in the wings after she's done all the hard work 
).
).Here’s some more: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/...ocialism-requires-transnational-organization/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp..../hard-right-brexit-tory-revolution-no-deal-eu
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/fore...-brexit-will-destroy-the-british-economy/amp/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....lexit-dont-believe-the-myth-a8184836.html?amp
I cannot find any articles or papers which confirm that Brexit will reduce right wing groups. In fact, the majority seem to support the opposite and go into great detail on why Brexit will increase them (clue: austerity due to economic collapse).
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp..../hard-right-brexit-tory-revolution-no-deal-eu
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/fore...-brexit-will-destroy-the-british-economy/amp/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....lexit-dont-believe-the-myth-a8184836.html?amp
I cannot find any articles or papers which confirm that Brexit will reduce right wing groups. In fact, the majority seem to support the opposite and go into great detail on why Brexit will increase them (clue: austerity due to economic collapse).
We shouldn't need to be in a situation where we have to stockpile food (it's been a good business opportunity for those who have already set up large storage units
). It's very concerning for people who need a constant supply of medication to survive, I do hope there aren't major delays at ports etc.
Yeah that's not helping anyone.
I think the deal is going to go through with all the bribes she's making.
The supermarkets were totally out of fresh food last year (not even exaggerating) after 2-3 days of snow stopping deliveries. Everything is so last minute and just in time with pretty much all supply chains. It's concerning the lack of contingency plans.