As electoral fraud was committed, all of Leaves “points” were based on lies, as well as it being a opinion referendum (not law), we should either get a second vote or scrap the whole thing. If you’re really that uneducated to think that a no deal Brexit is a good thing, please educate yourselves. The only people who will survive a no deal Brexit are the ultra rich. We have a poverty crisis, a homelessness crisis, a food bank crisis, and we now want to go no deal? Quite honestly, if you think people should suffer because “we voted leave, and leave means leave” you’re disgraceful and disgusting.
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I voted to remain,as did most of Scotland where I live, a no deal Brexit would be a disaster for the country and I cant understand why people would want this, the leave campaign was full of inaccuracies and lies and this has been proven, people voted to leave for the wrong reasons as they believed the lies they were sold, all those politicians should hang there heads in shame.
Inkling95 ?? It's true the ultra wealthy will benefit from Brexit in that they would be more likely to get away with tax fraud and/or pay their workers sh*t wages and conditions. Sounds like the Dyson guy has already taken this opportunity to make more money out of it, along with loads of other big companies.
I had to laugh recently when a guy called in to LBC saying that money was being wasted on interpreters in hospitals: it turned out these were mostly people from South America and Asia, nothing to do with the EU lol.
I wonder if anyone here watched that C4 Cumberbatch film about all the lies and populist sentiment?
I had to laugh recently when a guy called in to LBC saying that money was being wasted on interpreters in hospitals: it turned out these were mostly people from South America and Asia, nothing to do with the EU lol.
I wonder if anyone here watched that C4 Cumberbatch film about all the lies and populist sentiment?
The fact that Rees-Mogg has been moving his money to Irish bank accounts as soon as the vote came through was quite telling, IMO.
The Government are doing this on purpose as they didn't want us to leave. They didn't expect us to be as smart as we are. We voted leave, and that is the only vote that matters. We don't keep voting until they get the answer they want! It is ridiculous.
Btw read about David Icke, he predicted this would happen. They want us all the in the New World Order, and good luck to us if they manage it. One world, one hell. It's already started with the Euro.
Btw read about David Icke, he predicted this would happen. They want us all the in the New World Order, and good luck to us if they manage it. One world, one hell. It's already started with the Euro.
No, 17.4mil voted Leave out of a total population of 65.6 mil. “We” didn’t vote for No Deal. “We” voted based on lies. We voted on an opinion referendum, nothing more nothing less. Please educate yourself, as it’s clear you’re not well educated on the legalities or the potential outcomes (all of which leave us poorer than before) of the matter. David Icke is a conspiracy theorist, where in ‘91 he said he was the “Son of Godhead” and the world will be soon consumed by tidal waves and earthquakes. 28 years later and we’re still here...
As for “we don’t keep voting”, then what’s a general election every four years?
I voted remain; was staunch remain but if we had the same question again I would now vote leave.
I saw someone else say this. Can I ask why?
Unbelievable that a headline today is that MPs might have to forfeit their February break?! Ya think!!?
They should have canceled that 3-4 week Christmas break and just taken 25-1st off, crazy that they went away for so long
They should have canceled that 3-4 week Christmas break and just taken 25-1st off, crazy that they went away for so long
Because they fell for the propaganda. There’s absolutely categorically no benefit to leaving the EU. And if they’ve changed their minds (while they are more than entitled to), in my mind, they’re illogical and unable to look at the facts presented before them. Leave, especially no deal, will leave us without any trade deals (eg stockpiling drugs, food), a disastrous poverty crisis, leading to many unnecessary deaths and a vile racist society (right wing and xenophobic/racist attacks have been dramatically increasing since June 2016)
Fully agree. The first person I saw who said they’d change their vote to leave now (nothing to do with this site) actually said it out of stubbornness and fully admitted to that. She seemed to think it would ‘show them’ or teach someone some kind of lesson. Felt a lot like cutting your nose off to me
Did anyone watch the documentary called "Inside the Foregin Office" last year? If you can still watch it, do so! It was very enlightening and goes far beyond what any of us can comprehend about dealings with the EU.
Such YouTuber-esque entitlement. Do!! Your!! F****g!! Jobs!!
Hi, yes of course. My main issue is political control. When the EU was created is was primarily focussed on economic trade and I think that the net benefit of gloabisation has been achieved to the member states. I am under no illusion that leaving the EU will cause short term economic problems. But economic booms and slumps are easier to rectify than cultural and political shifts.
The political influence in the EU - particularly globalISM (not globalisation) and free movement of people is allowing far right populists to gain traction as evidenced throughout Europe. It is dangerous, particularly as the EU is becoming fractured. It will result in far right political parties gaining more than a toe hold in power through democratic representation. The biggest threat of that is of course that so much power is held in the hands of so few. My opinion - and of course your mileage may vary - is that the political clout of the EU needs to be lessened. I cannot see an extreme political party gaining power in the UK as a sovereign nation before I can see it getting significant representation in The EU.
i just want to add that I appreciate that Brexit brings out a passionate response in people; we all get frustrated at those on the other side of the argument that cannot see or agree with our POV. However a condescending tone of implying stupidity and buying propaganda is rarely helpful to your cause, just causes barriers to dialogue and debate, hence gridlock ?
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The change in right wing ideaology has nothing to do with the EU, it’s a wave that’s been seen throughout the world. We have immigrants from all nations yet you blame the EU for that? It is 100% to do with propaganda, that’s what the entire VoteLeave was based on. Dominic Cummings saw the potential to prey upon people’s ignorance with the EU “Take back control” we have control, as well as a say in the EU and how’s its run.Hi, yes of course. My main issue is political control. When the EU was created is was primarily focussed on economic trade and I think that the net benefit of gloabisation has been achieved to the member states. I am under no illusion that leaving the EU will cause short term economic problems. But economic booms and slumps are easier to rectify than cultural and political shifts.
The political influence in the EU - particularly globalISM (not globalisation) and free movement of people is allowing far right populists to gain traction as evidenced throughout Europe. It is dangerous, particularly as the EU is becoming fractured. It will result in far right political parties gaining more than a toe hold in power through democratic representation. The biggest threat of that is of course that so much power is held in the hands of so few. My opinion - and of course your mileage may vary - is that the political clout of the EU needs to be lessened. I cannot see an extreme political party gaining power in the UK as a sovereign nation before I can see it getting significant representation in The EU.
i just want to add that I appreciate that Brexit brings out a passionate response in people; we all get frustrated at those on the other side of the argument that cannot see or agree with our POV. However a condescending tone of implying stupidity and buying propaganda is rarely helpful to your cause, just causes barriers to dialogue and debate, hence gridlock ?
Being illogical isn’t stupidity. Anyone can be susceptible to propaganda, that’s inherently WHY it exists. It’s to persuade its audience. If you honestly believe the right wing ideologies will be lessened with leaving the EU, you’re incredibly naive, as the statistics of all the racist and right wing attacks (Remember pro-remain MP Jo Cox being murdered) say otherwise. https://assets.publishing.service.g...data/file/652136/hate-crime-1617-hosb1717.pdf
Attachments
^ if you think political revolution can’t spin on a penny you’re ignoring the Arab Spring of 2010. Especially in these days if social media. Plus you’re so hellbent in being right youre making strawmen arguments.
I don’t believe that ideologies will be changed and didn’t suggest such a thing, but believe that right wing momentum and pressure in the UK will be dissipated. At the moment, right wing parties are gaining ground across Europe hand over fist and you will not be able to stop them being legally represented if they’re voted in.
The EU needs radical reform. Because it won’t, the next best option is to leave. Political and cultural stability is the most pertinent issue.
Again, your mileage may vary. There will be economic turmoil - which nobody wants, of course - but I’m hopeful there will be common sense applied to make it less painful than it could be.
- The EU puts too much power in the hands of too few.
- Populist, right wing parties are gaining traction because of EU globalist policy.
- The EU is fracturing because of globalist policy.
- Populist parties have more chance of being voted into the EU than they do as a sovereign power.
I don’t believe that ideologies will be changed and didn’t suggest such a thing, but believe that right wing momentum and pressure in the UK will be dissipated. At the moment, right wing parties are gaining ground across Europe hand over fist and you will not be able to stop them being legally represented if they’re voted in.
The EU needs radical reform. Because it won’t, the next best option is to leave. Political and cultural stability is the most pertinent issue.
Again, your mileage may vary. There will be economic turmoil - which nobody wants, of course - but I’m hopeful there will be common sense applied to make it less painful than it could be.
Right wing parties are gaining traction due to many reasons, not solely because of the EU. Look at America, Brazil, etc. These policies regarding the wars in Iraq (both of them) and Afghanistan, and the war on terror, are what’s spurred these movements, as well as inequality. The Conservative government has pissed all over the working class these past 9 years, and Tony Blair and Gordon Brown didn’t do too much better before. Again, you’re incredibly naive to say it’s solely the EU to blame for such matters, when even political scientists can’t agree. Leaving the EU will be more disastrous than remaining, regardless of populism. Right now the far right is still in the benign stage. If the economy crashes, there is a very big danger of this changing.
If there is another economic crash, Europe’s far right is ready for it | Owen Jones
It has been argued that a strong social safety net can prevent this:
Austerity Brings Extremism: Why the Welfare State Is the Key to Understanding the Rise of Europe's Far Right
Unless the very wealthy and upper middle classes are willing to pay significantly higher taxes, this is simply not happening.
It’s pretty widespread. For example in the US, the top 1% in all states captured a bigger slice of the income pie.
http://www.epi.org/files/pdf/107...
Ultimately I think that the problem is that the very wealthy did not learn the lessons of the rise of fascism in the 1930s, the French Revolution, and pretty much every other revolution. They ended because the elites in their societies mismanaged their respective societies to such an extent that people felt the need to take radical action. They did so in a move to preserve their own power and wealth over the rest.
Why Income Inequality Threatens Democracy
This Is How Income Inequality Destroys Societies
It’s been argued that rampant inequality (in a study by NASA) could lead to a collapse of society:
Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'? | Nafeez Ahmed
If so, we need to dramatically reduce inequality. Our survival as a civilization could depend on it. I think that if we were to reduce inequality, many of the social problems that society faces would just vanish.
Ironically, the Leave vote was created because people felt lied to by the EU. Guess what Leave used to win... Brexit only benefits the rich and will cause yet more inequality, leading to more right wing power.
Here’s some more: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/...ocialism-requires-transnational-organization/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp..../hard-right-brexit-tory-revolution-no-deal-eu
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/fore...-brexit-will-destroy-the-british-economy/amp/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....lexit-dont-believe-the-myth-a8184836.html?amp
I cannot find any articles or papers which confirm that Brexit will reduce right wing groups. In fact, the majority seem to support the opposite and go into great detail on why Brexit will increase them (clue: austerity due to economic collapse).
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp..../hard-right-brexit-tory-revolution-no-deal-eu
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/fore...-brexit-will-destroy-the-british-economy/amp/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....lexit-dont-believe-the-myth-a8184836.html?amp
I cannot find any articles or papers which confirm that Brexit will reduce right wing groups. In fact, the majority seem to support the opposite and go into great detail on why Brexit will increase them (clue: austerity due to economic collapse).
I didn’t say the RW were gaining traction because of the EU, but because of globalist policy which is what the EU is currently following (and why it is being felt around the world).
I don’t believe the far right is benign, as you yourself was at lengths to point out in an above post.
I also didn’t say the EU was to blame but was a vehicle for potential power (which is my fear) as I say again - too much power in the hands of too few.
No offence but unless you actually argue the points I’m making rather than the points you seem to want to think I’m making, there’s not much point in batting back and forth. ?
I listen to a huge variety of commentary on Brexit, from socialist Owen Jones (who you quoted) to toff Con Jacob Rees-Mogg. I’ve never towed a party line and like to balance my judgement by taking in as much conflicting info and facts as I can. I don’t think that’s naïveté, I think that’s listening to arguments and assessing for oneself. There’s bullshit from all quarters, to be frank.
I absolutely agree that inequality (of opportunity) is one of the biggest social issues faced today, and one that causes massive unrest (look at riots throughout Britain) but I feel this is best managed in the UK by our own parliament rather than from Brussels.
In a nutshell, my position is EU is great for capitalism and trade; not so great for policy and I personally think a globalist pursuit is dangerous.
I don’t believe the far right is benign, as you yourself was at lengths to point out in an above post.
I also didn’t say the EU was to blame but was a vehicle for potential power (which is my fear) as I say again - too much power in the hands of too few.
No offence but unless you actually argue the points I’m making rather than the points you seem to want to think I’m making, there’s not much point in batting back and forth. ?
I listen to a huge variety of commentary on Brexit, from socialist Owen Jones (who you quoted) to toff Con Jacob Rees-Mogg. I’ve never towed a party line and like to balance my judgement by taking in as much conflicting info and facts as I can. I don’t think that’s naïveté, I think that’s listening to arguments and assessing for oneself. There’s bullshit from all quarters, to be frank.
I absolutely agree that inequality (of opportunity) is one of the biggest social issues faced today, and one that causes massive unrest (look at riots throughout Britain) but I feel this is best managed in the UK by our own parliament rather than from Brussels.
In a nutshell, my position is EU is great for capitalism and trade; not so great for policy and I personally think a globalist pursuit is dangerous.
Just to reiterate my point - my argument isn’t that Brexit will reduce groups in size but diffuse their power gains.