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Miss polar

VIP Member
I couldn’t agree more. Already people are becoming emboldened talking about it. It’s pretty scary stuff!
I want to know who is behind the funding and promoting of this bill!
Apparently Starmer is a friend of Rantzen, and promised her he would push it forward.
 
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Lizzie Mintdrop

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there's no reason to assume that doctors would persuade people to end their lives when it isn't in their best interests, they swear an oath now and we don't suspect them of not following those promises now, do we?

You can honestly say that when there are doctors prepared to prescribe life-damaging drugs, and carry out major surgery on children to "change their gender" - often after only a phone call? If you think that there aren't a lot of doctors who aren't prepared to chuck the Hippocratic oath out of the window for these of a nice fat profit, you are very naive.
Yes, I can honestly say that because I don't just get my info from the Daily Mail
 
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Miss polar

VIP Member
Five mp’s have changed their mind and are going to now vote against.
I think it needs to be 12 to defeat it, so very unlikely to happen.
Scary times for vulnerable people in this country.
 
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Foxvint

VIP Member
I'm reading Peter Singer's essays on the issue atm. Has anyone else? I agree with all of his conclusions apart from the eligibility of people suffering mental illness for euthanasia. He doesn't think his opinion is worth more than anyone else's on this but I do given that he's a Professor of Ethics who's spent his entire career thinking, debating and writing about these things. I would rather be led by Ethics Professors and doctors on the issue than people who ignore the fact that I'm not in their holy book club. I'd love to put screenshots of certain sections on here but i imagine that's against copyright or tattle rules. He makes the point that when a family refuse to withdraw treatment on religious grounds for a patient with extremely poor prognosis, taxpayers funding this healthcare are not required to fiscally support the religious views of their fellow citizens which is why they are usually, or eventually, overruled by court order.

I know no one on this thread thus far has made religious arguments against AD so I'm preaching to the converted here but those are, and will be, the loudest voices in opposition and it's a mistake to underestimate the influence they still have on policy. They're still power adjacent.

Weirdly, as a mostly fairly lefty on most things, I don't hate Jacob Rees-Mogg as much as I'm supposed to for this very reason. As a staunch Catholic he is personally opposed to abortion. But he knows his is a minority view not shared by most of the British public and he doesn't seek to impose his view or use his political position to change that. I can respect that.

I've gone off-piste here so I'll shut up.
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Also I hope no one who is religiously opposed to AD feels unwelcome on this thread, feel free to throw in and show your workings with the rest of us.
 
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Miss polar

VIP Member
Fantastic news. I'm so pleased people can now choose a safe and dignified death
It’s not a given that this bill will become law! I sincerely hope it doesn’t!
It will be scrutinised line by line, and lots of amendments suggested. Also, it still has to get through the lords.
If there’s no full proof safeguards for coercion, then many of the mp’s who voted for it today won’t do so at the second reading.
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Leadbeater has said, this is the most pressing issue if our time.
No it’s bloody not. It’s her pet project!
What an arrogant self serving women she is. Only got elected on a pity vote, and now trying to make a name for herself on the backs of the most vulnerable in our society..
 
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Melian

VIP Member
I struggle to have an opinion on this - my concern is whether it'll be abused. You have people who can't consent to whether they want a DNR, etc. But at the same time, it's horrible watching people slowly die.

My mum used to care for a man with MND. He signed something to say he doesn't want to be resuscitated.

I have a friend who lives on America. She's slowly dying and has decided on a certain date when she wants to die. (I can't quite remember the ins and outs but it's something I've struggled to read)
 
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HockyRorror

VIP Member
It’s funny how things can change in seemingly a short while. I posted on page 1 on this thread back in 2021 and voted yes but mentioned it was after wavering and not really sure until reading other peoples reasons… and now 4 years later I’m facing this exact situation myself with a sibling. Only got notified of this thread as it had an update, don’t remember originally posting on it!
 
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Sabbie

VIP Member
It’s funny how things can change in seemingly a short while. I posted on page 1 on this thread back in 2021 and voted yes but mentioned it was after wavering and not really sure until reading other peoples reasons… and now 4 years later I’m facing this exact situation myself with a sibling. Only got notified of this thread as it had an update, don’t remember originally posting on it!
Sorry to hear this. If you can bear to share, what are your feelings about it now?
 
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Former_Antelopee

VIP Member
I'm entirely in favour of assisted dying. For any reason you choose. If you want to end your life you shouldn't have to do it in a way that may cause you or others more pain. No one should have to throw themselves off a bridge, no one should have to throw themselves in front of a train and no one should survive a failed attempt and now be profoundly disabled by it, further enhancing their suffering.

Ethics committees exist, there's no reason to assume that doctors would persuade people to end their lives when it isn't in their best interests, they swear an oath now and we don't suspect them of not following those promises now, do we? Doctors don't force women to have abortions so why would they start forcing the elderly or the disabled to choose a quick death?
I completely agree with you. I don't see why physical illness and mental illness should be treated differently, isn't that what people with mental illness keep saying?
If you've gone through treatment for whatever mental or physical illness and nothing is or can help your suffering stop whichever it may be and you don't want to live anymore then why isn't euthanasia a valid way to 'treat' you and end suffering.
As others said we can euthanase our animals to end their suffering, at least we'd have a saying what happened to ourselves. Obviously the mental health side would be harder to decide and less ethical? Which imo is true for the animal side of things as well with behavioural euthanasia being less accepted but I think it's something that happens less than it should and that some animals live an unhappy life as they are too stressed/aggressive to live a normally happy life but us humans want to help and since they are physically well wouldn't want to euthanase
 
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Miss polar

VIP Member
I feel absolutely shocked that this bill has passed. There’s been no scrutiny of it, and only a five hour debate.
I don’t trust that Leadbeater women, and would love to know who’s backing her!
 
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Miss polar

VIP Member
Leadbeater has indicated that feeling a burden could be a legitimate reason to want to end your life. She’s an absolute disgrace.
She has repeatedly dismissed concerns about people being coerced as not relevant. I
Do t know what her motives are, but she’s not to be trusted.
 
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Foxvint

VIP Member
I wonder how many people on this thread championing assisted dying are going to be happy when the NHS has to divert funds away from other treatments and resources!
Also, how many will be happy when the courts system is clogged up by judges having to rule on cases of people wanting to take this option.
Personally, I want the courts to deal with criminals.
I heard a judge talking about this, and he said it will have an adverse effect on the use of court and judges time!
Not a fan of Wes streeting, but very glad to see as health secretary he voted against this bill.
Ditto the Justice secretary.
Why would it divert funds? Genuine question as most criticism says its a money saving plan.
 
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Rocket Queen

VIP Member
We put everything in place (POA) when he had the first signs of Parkinson's and there are copies everywhere they are needed.
But anyway I wanted to say that my husband passed away today and it was quite peaceful and so glad I was there holding his hand and talking to him when it happened, quite suddenly. It was something I wanted as I think it is cruel keeping people in that state and sure he would have said the same as we have talked lots about it and he should not have been left for 7 days like this - not NHS fault as they have been faultless but something has to be done about this.
So very sorry for your loss. Sending you love and strength. X
 
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Lizzie Mintdrop

VIP Member
I think we should dissuade people from committing suicide, not aid them. Not least because all the literature and research on the subject strongly suggests that the suicidal state is rarely continuous and can be made worse through alcohol or drugs (which are a factor in 90% of cases). I think we should be wrapping our arms round the suicidal and trying to help them see that despite all its faults and terrors, life is beautiful, and worth living.

The way you feel in one month may not be the way you feel the following month. If an easy way out were offered on tap then I'd've definitely taken it when I was in my 20s (in and out of mental hospitals and ED units). But now, I'm so glad I didn't, and so grateful to be alive even though it was a long slog and hard work to get to the good mental health I enjoy today.

I don't think death should be presented as just one more consumer choice in our hypercapitalist culture. I really think we as human beings would lose something precious and profound, if we did that.
The choice is already there, people are just taking it without guidance. They are also taking the most dangerous and painful options
 
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Foxvint

VIP Member
We put everything in place (POA) when he had the first signs of Parkinson's and there are copies everywhere they are needed.
But anyway I wanted to say that my husband passed away today and it was quite peaceful and so glad I was there holding his hand and talking to him when it happened, quite suddenly. It was something I wanted as I think it is cruel keeping people in that state and sure he would have said the same as we have talked lots about it and he should not have been left for 7 days like this - not NHS fault as they have been faultless but something has to be done about this.
All my love 💓
 
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