Assisted Dying

[Rosie878]

If we gave people more autonomy over when they pass they would enjoy their good days before illness takes over so much more too. Right now people with terminal illnesses must worry about their decline, loss of dignity and the pain they may suffer. If you put the power in their hands and let them decide when enough is enough I think you would allow them to focus on getting joy out of the time they have left.

 

[Notworthy]

Couldn’t it be decided when you’re young and able to decide without any pressure from family in old age? Like I know if I get any illness, the second I have to go into a home I would want to be euthanised.

Same. I do not want the assets that I have accrued over the years to be spent keeping me alive for no real purpose, particularly if I have dementia and no longer recognise my Son. Nor do I want my Son to waste his time coming to visit me in a nursing home where I sit all day every day just waiting for my next meal, what a fucking grim way to end my life.
Of course the opposite argument to those who say what about the families that would encourage their sick and elderly family members to agree to euthanasia is what about the families now that put their loved ones through medical procedures and resuscitation when they're old and sick and it isn't in their best interests.

 

[Foxvint]

Wow no posts on the thread since 2021, might be talking to myself here but here goes.

I think it's very telling that the people who've watched a loved one die are almost unanimously in favour of assisted dying. Same for all the nurses I've met.

Of course there's massive ethical questions and the law would have to be water tight with certain strict conditions to be met. Did anyone watch the brilliant bbc documentary Better Off Dead with Liz Carr? She's fabulous and I appreciated her arguments but they didn't persuade me.

I think most opposition goes back to deeply entrenched religious ideas of how only God gets to take you. This is a secular country but that concept is still a powerful force that makes a lot of people uneasy with debates around AD. But it's coming, it has to. My body my choice.

 

[Foxvint]

We have a smidgeon of it anyway. Morphine is upped incrementally in a sufferers final days knowing it'll supress the respiratory system and speed up the inevitable so plenty of ppl are already assisted along by medicine rather than the beckoning scythe of the grim reaper. I personally don't see much of a distinction between that and the proposed window of less than 6 months left to live that'd allow for AD. The potential to experience catastrophic suffering is more frightening to me than the potential for an overly pessimistic diagnosis or one of the tiny minority of bad apple or gung ho doctors pushing me in an unnecessary direction.

 

[Notworthy]

Women already experience higher levels of poverty in retirement due to career breaks in their early working life to take care of children, which has knock-on effects on their pensions.

I have colleagues who are feeling extraordinary guilt because they are torn between the needs of their children and their elderly parents and they cannot take care of both while working.

My concerns about the assisted dying bill are primarily around safeguards against coercion, and the current state of both social care and palliative care.

The majority of local authorities in the UK are social care providers with a weird sideline in bins and streetlights. Hampshire spends 83% of its budget on the provision of social care services to adults and children, as an example.

I can easily see a situation where social care is further undermined and underfunded because assisted dying is available, and given a choice between inadequate and underfunded care or assisted death, people may feel coerced into a decision that they didn't really want to make.

Financial abuse and coercion of the elderly and/or otherwise vulnerable is a thing already. If your parents having an assisted death means you can pay off the mortgage, rather than see that money be handed over to the private equity firm who owns the care home, there will be people who pressure their parents to go down that route.

Isn't it the opposite that is happening though where assisted dying is legal, It's the Parents that want to go down the assisted dying route to preserve their inheritance to their Children rather than the Children encouraging their Parents.
The key difference is whether, as an individual you value life at all costs or whether quality of life is important.
I absolutely do not want to finish my days sitting in a communal lounge waiting for my next meal which is what 95% of people living in Nursing homes spend their days doing.
My Mums neighbour used to be the most social person, always off somewhere, now she sits in a home occasionally getting visitors she doesn't even remember. Who benefits from that other than the home. Her quality of life is about 1% of what it was.

 

[Mulholland Drive]

Most definitely, and under correct supervision

I don't want to spend my dying days in a bed hooked up to tubes and monitors and being injected with morphine, but unable to do anything and totally dependent on others!

It would be like spending your life trying to scratch an itch that you can't quite reach, but would drive you insane. Who the hell wants that!

 

[Notworthy]

Watched some of the debate in parliament today. Ledbetter is all kinds of wrong. She’s a narcissist who wants to make a name for herself.
she refuses to listen to all of the palliative care orgs who are against this bill.

Sadly I think this is going to pass , as there are lots of vested interests involved.

As for the idiot Esther Rantzen- I thought I couldn’t detest her any more!

Not sure what vested interests those are, there is far less money in helping someone die than there is in keeping someone alive.
The easy solution is for people to be able to lodge their wishes with their GP before they get ill so there can be no accusations of coercion. I absolutely do not want to go into a nursing home ever. That is not living.

 

[Notworthy]

I think some of the arguments against are valid but easily overcome with robust legislation. The whole point of assisted suicide is that it is for people that physically can't kill themselves. I've seen arguments about people with mental health issues but to not put too fine a point on it, ultimately they still have the ability to commit suicide under their own steam.
I don't want to be a burden to my Son if my quality of life is zero, happy to be a burden if I'm still enjoying life

 

[TrolleyParton]

I think for me, it boils down to whether or not the potential for good is outweighed by the potential for abuse. Alcohol causes untold misery in thousands of lives, yet we still don't stop everyone from drinking because some people don't know when to stop. Thousands of people are injured or killed in road traffic accidents every year but we still allow people to drive. I fully understand anyone's misgivings but at the same time, I would absolutely want this option for myself if I was in a position where the only outcome is pain and a slow, horrible death.

 

[Foxvint]

Lots of excellent (for once) content on both sides of this subject on twitter in light of the assisted dying bill. I paraphrase but I saw one about any legislation needing to be interrogated to see how it will be abused by bad faith actors before it can pass. There's no party line on it from Labour either, MPs can vote however they wish which takes a lot of careerist considerations out the picture. I think it'll pass, meet a lot of opposition in house of lords but ultimately still pass.

 

[Lizzie Mintdrop]

We have a smidgeon of it anyway. Morphine is upped incrementally in a sufferers final days knowing it'll supress the respiratory system and speed up the inevitable so plenty of ppl are already assisted along by medicine rather than the beckoning scythe of the grim reaper. I personally don't see much of a distinction between that and the proposed window of less than 6 months left to live that'd allow for AD. The potential to experience catastrophic suffering is more frightening to me than the potential for an overly pessimistic diagnosis or one of the tiny minority of bad apple or gung ho doctors pushing me in an unnecessary direction.

My dad was given midazolam in his final days and it couldn't have come soon enough as he was suffering with terminal restlessness, which was absolute hell to watch and I'm sure, would be even worse to go through

 

[TheMiceInTheShed]

I'm entirely in favour of assisted dying. For any reason you choose. If you want to end your life you shouldn't have to do it in a way that may cause you or others more pain. No one should have to throw themselves off a bridge, no one should have to throw themselves in front of a train and no one should survive a failed attempt and now be profoundly disabled by it, further enhancing their suffering.

Ethics committees exist, there's no reason to assume that doctors would persuade people to end their lives when it isn't in their best interests, they swear an oath now and we don't suspect them of not following those promises now, do we? Doctors don't force women to have abortions so why would they start forcing the elderly or the disabled to choose a quick death?

there's no reason to assume that doctors would persuade people to end their lives when it isn't in their best interests, they swear an oath now and we don't suspect them of not following those promises now, do we?

You can honestly say that when there are doctors prepared to prescribe life-damaging drugs, and carry out major surgery on children to "change their gender" - often after only a phone call? If you think that there aren't a lot of doctors who aren't prepared to chuck the Hippocratic oath out of the window for these of a nice fat profit, you are very naive.

 

[Foxvint]

A leading story on BBC news today cos the Archbishop of Canterbury is of course opposed to it but unless you're CofE his opinion is worth no more than mine or yours. He's not one of our elected representatives. The article points out he's out of step with the general public who are majority in favour. Religious leaders shouldn't have anymore influence on this issue than anyone else given most of the British public don't look to them for guidance.

 

[Welshgal]

Absolutely!
Human dignity means being able to say when enough is enough. That’s a choice everyone should have the right to.

 

[Foxvint]

I don't like the way it's being presented on sites like twitter as being a sort of healthy v disabled thing. As if lots of ppl in favour don't know and love disabled ppl. It's simply untrue and I think there's ridiculous levels of hyperbole around the subject.

 

[Miss polar]

Looked back on this thread against my better judgment, but heartened to see at least some voices of doubts!

According to experts in palletive care, that system is now going to see a diversion of resources away from it, and excuse for not funding it, as now there’s the option of assisted dying!
I really fear for people being coerced, especially the disabled, and non verbal.
I do t get upset easily, but this really felt like a terrible decision to pass this bill.
The fact that Rantzen is behind it( friend and defender of saville) and her overbearing daughter, and the opportunist Leadbeater leaves a really sour taste in my mouth!

 

[Foxvint]

It's the same lack of reasoning and hysteria we saw during the pandemic to me. Ppl frothing at the mouth online that nanna who's reached a grand old age wouldn't be prioritised if a decision had to be made on who gets a scarce intensive care bed. My kids lives are more important than mine because they've had less of it. Your kids lives are more important than mine cos they've had less of it. This is not remotely controversial to me.

 

[WilmaHun]

I voted maybe but I think I'll change it to yes.

Obviously things such as mental capacity would have to be assessed - that goes without saying. But I truly believe is somebody is mentally capable and able to make that decision with sound mind, then yes, it should be allowed. If it prevents suffering, of course.

I watched a family member in his 80's go from being the most active 83 year old ever, to having a stroke which completely destroyed his quality of life. It was painful to watch. He was bed ridden, covered in bed sores, unable to eat (fed through a peg in his stomach) and towards the end, unable to really even speak. I am sure that if he had the chance to end his suffering sooner, he would have.

 

[BearOnChair]

I can see the argument for the bill but I strongly think they must fund proper palliative care so that the state offers a proper choice. It shouldn't be down to charities to provide hospice care. And there needs to be so many safe guards in place for vulnerable people too.

It's too easy to have strong opinions on this if its something you aren't facing or have experience of.

 

[LittleMy]

I mean there’s clearly a want for it nowadays. Fair enough if you wouldn’t want to put yourself through it but why should that mean you get to decide whether or not someone else can? Obviously it could only go ahead with strict laws around it, I don’t think anybody disagrees with that.