Anti Conspiracy Theories #6 wakey, wakey!

Ensay · Apr 28, 2023

I don't understand why being against conspiracy theories is framed as a bad thing by some CTists. After all, they use phrases like "we just question things", which is what I do, too. I question whether most CTs are valid and come to the conclusion that the majority aren't.

They act like that means we're thick or don't question governments, but that's not the case at all! I question a lot of what the Tory government has done/is doing. The fact I think most CTs are nonsense isn't because I don't think or question; it's the opposite.

It doesn't offend me, because I know I'm not an unintelligent person, it amuses me more than anything.
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Deeznutslol said:
Uptake of the Td/IPV booster vaccine is down from 88% to 69% in adolescents. Why would you not want to protect yourself from a disease like tetanus? The reasons for the decrease in uptake cited here are the pandemic, people being indoctrinated with antivax views on social media and a lack of nursing staff actually available to administer the vaccines. It also suggests that the lack of staff (obviously due to funding cuts) is also a reason as to why these sorts of views are increasing, school nurses either aren’t available or simply don’t have the time to provide health education to parents/students and dispel myths about vaccines anymore.

Drop in teen vaccine coverage ‘shocking’, says school nurse leader | Nursing Times

Vaccine uptake rates at school have declined, according to new figures from the government.

www.nursingtimes.net

I suppose it shouldn't be surprising, given the negative vaccine messaging that is seemingly so prevalent on social media these days, as you say.

If we were talking about adults, then I'd say fair enough, it's your choice, but it doesn't feel right if adults are imposing that view on teenagers and stopping them getting things like the tetanus vaccine.

It proves their inconsistent views, because a lot of the objection to the covid vaccine was based around the fact they saw it was new and experimental. But the same can't be said for the tetanus vaccine. And if someone gets tetanus, they'll usually need to be admitted to hospital and will be given antibiotics and injections. So if an unvaccinated person is unlucky enough to get it, they'll end up taking more medication into their body.

Deeznutslol · Apr 28, 2023

Ensay said:
I don't understand why being against conspiracy theories is framed as a bad thing by some CTists. After all, they use phrases like "we just question things", which is what I do, too. I question whether most CTs are valid and come to the conclusion that the majority aren't.

They act like that means we're thick or don't question governments, but that's not the case at all! I question a lot of what the Tory government has done/is doing. The fact I think most CTs are nonsense isn't because I don't think or question; it's the opposite.

It doesn't offend me, because I know I'm not an unintelligent person, it amuses me more than anything.
---

I suppose it shouldn't be surprising, given the negative vaccine messaging that is seemingly so prevalent on social media these days, as you say.

If we were talking about adults, then I'd say fair enough, it's your choice, but it doesn't feel right if adults are imposing that view on teenagers and stopping them getting things like the tetanus vaccine.

It proves their inconsistent views, because a lot of the objection to the covid vaccine was based around the fact they saw it was new and experimental. But the same can't be said for the tetanus vaccine. And if someone gets tetanus, they'll usually need to be admitted to hospital and will be given antibiotics and injections. So if an unvaccinated person is unlucky enough to get it, they'll end up taking more medication into their body.

I’m also seeing CTists suggesting that any criticism of the government = conspiracy theory, which is not true at all and if govt has convinced you that it is, then that’s scary. Criticism of a prime minister who openly stated that he couldn’t care less if thousands died from covid is not a CT. Questioning the government’s awful handling of the pandemic is not a CT. What you’re seeing happening to the economy right now is no great conspiracy theory either, it’s the problems which have arisen from a combination of laissez-faire capitalism and years of austerity which have been imposed on the nation by a corrupt government who doesn’t give a shit what happens to it’s citizens.

If you contract tetanus and start to show symptoms, you’re going straight to the ICU unfortunately and it’s an agonizing illness to have. The only reason there are very few cases each year in developed countries is because of vaccines. In developing countries where they’re not available, there are still hundreds of thousands of tetanus cases each year. This decrease in vaccine uptake is worrying tbh.

Doctor_Wibble · Apr 28, 2023

Ensay said:
After all, they use phrases like "we just question things", which is what I do, too. I question whether most CTs are valid and come to the conclusion that the majority aren't.

It seems to me the main issue is not the questioning of things but the difference of opinion over which bits to question and which bits to accept.
Though to add to that, acceptance of something for me does require some semblance of coherent logic and credible numeracy.

Not knowing the exact proportion of ingredients in something?
Then don't buy anything in a shop then because the list of ingredients on a packet doesn't show the amounts either - sugar and salt are killers in the wrong quantity (etc).

Somewhat related, a bit of a pet peeve that some things co-opted as 'CT' are more about corporate malfeasance than 'conspiracy' as such, or consumer rights matters - but proof of one does not automatically extend to proof of all, even if suspicions are entirely justified and worth a proper objective look.
(e2a looking at this again, not vastly different from remarks above, about criticisms of government being 'claimed')

Deeznutslol · Apr 28, 2023

Doctor_Wibble said:
It seems to me the main issue is not the questioning of things but the difference of opinion over which bits to question and which bits to accept.
Though to add to that, acceptance of something for me does require some semblance of coherent logic and credible numeracy.

Not knowing the exact proportion of ingredients in something?
Then don't buy anything in a shop then because the list of ingredients on a packet doesn't show the amounts either - sugar and salt are killers in the wrong quantity (etc).

Somewhat related, a bit of a pet peeve that some things co-opted as 'CT' are more about corporate malfeasance than 'conspiracy' as such, or consumer rights matters - but proof of one does not automatically extend to proof of all, even if suspicions are entirely justified and worth a proper objective look.
(e2a looking at this again, not vastly different from remarks above, about criticisms of government being 'claimed')

The entire ingredients list along with their respective quantities is available on Pfizer’s website anyway.

https://labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=14471&format=pdf

https://extranet.who.int/pqweb/sites/default/files/documents/TAG-EUL_PublicReport_Pfizer_31DEC20.pdf

The suggestion is that Pfizer are continuing to withhold any ingredients which constitute their covid vaccine is just categorically not true either. A pharmaceutical company cannot legally market a drug without listing the active principles and excipients which it contains.

Ellelalala · Apr 28, 2023

Doctor_Wibble said:
Somewhat related, a bit of a pet peeve that some things co-opted as 'CT' are more about corporate malfeasance than 'conspiracy' as such, or consumer rights matters - but proof of one does not automatically extend to proof of all, even if suspicions are entirely justified and worth a proper objective look.
(e2a looking at this again, not vastly different from remarks above, about criticisms of government being 'claimed')

Exactly. For example the (seeming) increase in train derailments in the States is due to a combination of factors, the largest of which is corporate greed. Specificially, deregulation has led to these issues, maintenance on the railways has been deferred and more shoddy than in years past. Companies transporting chemicals are bending the rules and not reporting their cargo correctly to avoid additional fees, and now that there have been a few derailments involving noxious and toxic chemicals, people are taking notice, so there's an increase in these incidents making the news. It feels like it's escalating, and to a certain extent it is, again because of greed and wanting to make as much money as possible. But there's no conspiracy to poison the land, water, or people.

The government has no real interest in killing off a large portion of it's citizens, there's nothing to gain. In a capitalistic society, a glut of workers is ideal, it keeps wages low and profits up. Not to mention needing consumers. Society went through some major re-ordering following the Black Death because the every day people and workers gained more power through the decrease in numbers.

Ensay · Apr 28, 2023

Deeznutslol said:
The entire ingredients list along with their respective quantities is available on Pfizer’s website anyway.
View attachment 2133849

https://labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=14471&format=pdf

View attachment 2133850 https://extranet.who.int/pqweb/sites/default/files/documents/TAG-EUL_PublicReport_Pfizer_31DEC20.pdf

The suggestion is that Pfizer are continuing to withhold any ingredients which constitute their covid vaccine is just categorically not true either. A pharmaceutical company cannot legally market a drug without listing the active principles and excipients which it contains.

Indeed and it's concerning that many people will blindly believe statements like "Pfizer won't tell us what's in their clot shot!" purely because they want to believe that's true. They've already decided they don't want the vaccine (and that's fair enough) but to spread untruths about it, which may influence other people's decisions, isn't right in my opinion.

Insomiaflamingo · Apr 28, 2023

CoffeeMamma said:
In the thread about the alerts there’s literally a person who lived in New Zealand going “why are you all so stressed? They’ve had it for years and used it a few times it’s literally no big deal?” The rest of the world must see threads like that and think the U.K. have lost their damn minds. £40 million for a coronation but now money for teachers/nurses and now this…

There was a post on Reddit about how for nation science week in 2001 scientists had kids jump up and down for 20 seconds to see if it could cause an earthquake. It was just a science experiment that got kids interested in science and gave data to scientists (but not evil scientists). I thought can you imagine that now. It would be “the evil government are programming us to respond like robots”. “We aren’t sheep, my child is not going to school, this is part of the big plan”.

BBC NEWS | Education | Earth does not move for science

.

Deeznutslol · Apr 29, 2023

Ensay said:
Indeed and it's concerning that many people will blindly believe statements like "Pfizer won't tell us what's in their clot shot!" purely because they want to believe that's true. They've already decided they don't want the vaccine (and that's fair enough) but to spread untruths about it, which may influence other people's decisions, isn't right in my opinion.

It’s a vicious cycle unfortunately. They made the decision not to take it based on false information and then they go on to spread those untruths to others. Unfortunately, I think we will soon start seeing more stories where people (mainly kids who rely on their parents to make medical decisions for them) end up contracting horrible illnesses like tetanus as a result of these decisions to not protect themselves against them.

caroleffinbaskin · Apr 29, 2023

We need a title for the next thread

Ensay · Apr 29, 2023

Deeznutslol said:
It’s a vicious cycle unfortunately. They made the decision not to take it based on false information and then they go on to spread those untruths to others. Unfortunately, I think we will soon start seeing more stories where people (mainly kids who rely on their parents to make medical decisions for them) end up contracting horrible illnesses like tetanus as a result of these decisions to not protect themselves against them.

Agreed. And if it happens, they'll blame someone else/the government because heaven forbid they take accountability for their own choices.

shadowcat5 · Apr 29, 2023

caroleffinbaskin said:
We need a title for the next thread

Contaminated blood gang

klarakluckbag · Apr 29, 2023

It breaks my heart when I hear of parents denying their children vaccines, they come from such a position of privilege, if only they could actually see the horrors of these diseases, they might think twice about ranting against "big pharma" and the like.
I'm especially upset with ill-informed women who prevent their teenage daughters being vaccinated against HPV. I work in women's health and I'm seeing a whole generation of women who have had multiple painful and invasive procedures due to HPV infection. They then have the ordeal of smear tests every few months, and they may even have issues when deciding on how they would like to give birth, this virus is dreadful and is wreaking havoc on women's sexual health. We absolutely know that the cervical cancer rates are falling dramatically amongst women who are vaccinated against HPV, they say that in future, women may only need smear tests once or twice in their life, solely because of the success of the HPV vaccine. But that's not good enough for the anti-vax mob, who clearly consider their daughters to be collateral damage in their crusade against the Illuminiti/the Jews/Big Pharma/our lizard overlords, etc, etc, etc.

Ensay · Apr 29, 2023

klarakluckbag said:
It breaks my heart when I hear of parents denying their children vaccines, they come from such a position of privilege, if only they could actually see the horrors of these diseases, they might think twice about ranting against "big pharma" and the like.
I'm especially upset with ill-informed women who prevent their teenage daughters being vaccinated against HPV. I work in women's health and I'm seeing a whole generation of women who have had multiple painful and invasive procedures due to HPV infection. They then have the ordeal of smear tests every few months, and they may even have issues when deciding on how they would like to give birth, this virus is dreadful and is wreaking havoc on women's sexual health. We absolutely know that the cervical cancer rates are falling dramatically amongst women who are vaccinated against HPV, they say that in future, women may only need smear tests once or twice in their life, solely because of the success of the HPV vaccine. But that's not good enough for the anti-vax mob, who clearly consider their daughters to be collateral damage in their crusade against the Illuminiti/the Jews/Big Pharma/our lizard overlords, etc, etc, etc.

That's frightening, but this is the sort of thing that needs to be made more public. Maybe if more were aware of this, they'd think twice. After all, they say informed choice is important (and I agree with that) - and this kind of thing surely factors into that.

Really concerning for so many women out there.

Deeznutslol · Apr 29, 2023

klarakluckbag said:
It breaks my heart when I hear of parents denying their children vaccines, they come from such a position of privilege, if only they could actually see the horrors of these diseases, they might think twice about ranting against "big pharma" and the like.
I'm especially upset with ill-informed women who prevent their teenage daughters being vaccinated against HPV. I work in women's health and I'm seeing a whole generation of women who have had multiple painful and invasive procedures due to HPV infection. They then have the ordeal of smear tests every few months, and they may even have issues when deciding on how they would like to give birth, this virus is dreadful and is wreaking havoc on women's sexual health. We absolutely know that the cervical cancer rates are falling dramatically amongst women who are vaccinated against HPV, they say that in future, women may only need smear tests once or twice in their life, solely because of the success of the HPV vaccine. But that's not good enough for the anti-vax mob, who clearly consider their daughters to be collateral damage in their crusade against the Illuminiti/the Jews/Big Pharma/our lizard overlords, etc, etc, etc.

Exactly. This is a tough read, but it’s the reality of what happens if you contract tetanus.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6809a3.htm
An unvaccinated little boy got a cut on his head, his wound became infected and within six days he couldn’t breathe, open his mouth or swallow and spent the next 2 months in ICU recovering from tetanus. Luckily he survived, but imagine the agony and suffering he went through which could’ve been prevented by a vaccine? How can you read this and say yep, I’d rather put my kid at risk of this happening?
It’s heartbreaking to read something like this.

Doctor_Wibble · Apr 29, 2023

shadowcat5 said:
Contaminated blood gang

I want to give this a because I get the joke but I'm not so sure of it as a title as people in the real world have had to deal with actual contamination (as opposed to just being a vaxxed-up filthy mudblood like me) and won't get the in-thread joke of it

so it is with regret that ~~you're fired~~ I chicken out of deciding.

And my sincerest apologies to anyone confused by my reference to 'the real world', to be clear that's the one with the big bright light* and the really high ceiling.

*except when it's dark, IIRC schedule is set by the met office.

CoffeeMamma · Apr 29, 2023

Doctor_Wibble said:
I want to give this a because I get the joke but I'm not so sure of it as a title as people in the real world have had to deal with actual contamination (as opposed to just being a vaxxed-up filthy mudblood like me) and won't get the in-thread joke of it

so it is with regret that ~~you're fired~~ I chicken out of deciding.

And my sincerest apologies to anyone confused by my reference to 'the real world', to be clear that's the one with the big bright light* and the really high ceiling.

*except when it's dark, IIRC schedule is set by the met office.

No I agree. Could we go with something like “mud bloods and murmurs” as it’s also a HP reference if anyone asks

shadowcat5 · Apr 29, 2023

Doctor_Wibble said:
I want to give this a because I get the joke but I'm not so sure of it as a title as people in the real world have had to deal with actual contamination (as opposed to just being a vaxxed-up filthy mudblood like me) and won't get the in-thread joke of it

so it is with regret that ~~you're fired~~ I chicken out of deciding.

And my sincerest apologies to anyone confused by my reference to 'the real world', to be clear that's the one with the big bright light* and the really high ceiling.

*except when it's dark, IIRC schedule is set by the met office.

hahah it’s okay! In all honesty it was just a joke (that I thought was funny ). I didn’t think it’d adhere to tattle rules tbf

ETA: I will give a slightly more appropriate title - government booty lickers

( still joking…)

Doctor_Wibble · Apr 29, 2023

shadowcat5 said:
hahah it’s okay! In all honesty it was just a joke (that I thought was funny ). I didn’t think it’d adhere to tattle rules tbf

Don't mind me, usually I'm the one making the wrong joke at the wrong time and not finding out until way too late...
OTOH if it's not me that gets crucified that's always a win

Ensay · Apr 29, 2023

Another contradiction I've noticed in a lot of anti vaxxers is that they say those who aren't against vaccines downplay vaccine injuries, which they say is very offensive to those who've suffered the injuries and their family. (Though in my experience those who aren't against the vaccines have never denied the possibility of vaccine injuries, they just disagree that said injuries are as widespread as the anti vaxxers say.)

But then anti vaxxers will often make out covid to be nothing more serious than a cold, which is surely offensive to those with long covid, or worse, very upsetting to the families of those who sadly lost relatives to covid. Imagine if you lost a very close family member to covid and someone said "oh it wasn't a serious disease"...

It's just constant hypocrisy from them and they either can't see it or -- worse -- they know exactly what they're doing and are just trolling/enjoy getting a rise out of people.

mcfeez · Apr 30, 2023

klarakluckbag said:
It breaks my heart when I hear of parents denying their children vaccines, they come from such a position of privilege, if only they could actually see the horrors of these diseases, they might think twice about ranting against "big pharma" and the like.
I'm especially upset with ill-informed women who prevent their teenage daughters being vaccinated against HPV. I work in women's health and I'm seeing a whole generation of women who have had multiple painful and invasive procedures due to HPV infection. They then have the ordeal of smear tests every few months, and they may even have issues when deciding on how they would like to give birth, this virus is dreadful and is wreaking havoc on women's sexual health. We absolutely know that the cervical cancer rates are falling dramatically amongst women who are vaccinated against HPV, they say that in future, women may only need smear tests once or twice in their life, solely because of the success of the HPV vaccine. But that's not good enough for the anti-vax mob, who clearly consider their daughters to be collateral damage in their crusade against the Illuminiti/the Jews/Big Pharma/our lizard overlords, etc, etc, etc.

People are free to make choices for themselves and their children as they see fit. However the HPV vaccine is frustrating as I recall a huge number of CTs a few years ago online crying out about how convenient it was that a covid vaccine had been developed so quickly and yet we still didn't have one for cancer, as keeping cancer around is too profitable.

Aside from the fact that there is unlikely to ever be a 'one size fits all' cure for cancer, the HPV vaccine is literally a cancer preventing injection and look at the reactions it got.

Anti Conspiracy Theories #6 wakey, wakey!

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