Anti Conspiracy Theories #3

[Moth]

The vaccines are a selection pressure and so mutations that help the virus to evade the antibodies generated as a result of the vaccine are advantageous for the virus, but only if other potential hosts (people) in the vicinity have also been vaccinated. If other people haven't been vaccinated then the new mutation doesnt give this variant an advantage over other variants. Since the trials use only a small percentage of the population, I think it's unlikely (not impossible, unlikely) that vaccine resistant variants would emerge from a trial.

Variants that are resistant to vaccines are more likely to occur when a higher proportion of people are vaccinated. We can mitigate against this my using multiple vaccines and altered boosters if necessary. Also slightly counterintuitively, if the vast majority are vaccinated this can also reduce the chance of resistance occurring because there are fewer viral particles around.

@Unspiralled - you sound like you understand these things better than I do so could you help me with a question? As I understand it when someone becomes infected with the virus it replicates itself in the body. Mutation can occur any time the virus replicates. So the more people who are infected the greater the chance of mutation. The mutations that don't provide an advantage compared to the previous variant either die out or become common by chance. The mutations that have an advantage e.g more infectious, greater replication can overtake and crowd out the previous versions e.g as the Delta variant has crowded out the Alpha variant.

My question is whether the chance that a mutation will have an advantage is changed by the introduction of a vaccine i.e. is the vaccine itself adversely changing the replication of the virus . Or is it simply a question of probability i.e the mutations occur as they have always done but the vaccine 'mops up' some of those so that only those with a distinct advantage survive?

I hope that makes sense ad I'd be grateful for your (or any other) opinion (unless it's that Bill The Bastard is cooking them up in his lab underneath The White House.

That's good to read.
I've refused the vaccine on medical grounds. But finding myself in a bit of a no man's land at the min.

Feel like I'm instantly labelled as a CTer when in truth I'm scared of getting it
But people don't want to hear that...

I don't mean this to sound harsh (but it might do so I apologise in advance) but I don't think being scared is the same as 'medical grounds'.

If you have been advised not to get the jab or have concerns and have discussed it with a health professional and decided that it's not right for you then I for one wouldn't criticise your decision in the slightest

On the other hand if you are scared because of what you have read online then you have almost certainly allowed yourself to be influenced by unqualified, deceitful and possibly downright crazy people. It doesn't make you a CT-ist but you have probably been influenced by some that are.

 

[Unspiralled]

@Unspiralled - you sound like you understand these things better than I do so could you help me with a question? As I understand it when someone becomes infected with the virus it replicates itself in the body. Mutation can occur any time the virus replicates. So the more people who are infected the greater the chance of mutation. The mutations that don't provide an advantage compared to the previous variant either die out or become common by chance. The mutations that have an advantage e.g more infectious, greater replication can overtake and crowd out the previous versions e.g as the Delta variant has crowded out the Alpha variant.

My question is whether the chance that a mutation will have an advantage is changed by the introduction of a vaccine i.e. is the vaccine itself adversely changing the replication of the virus . Or is it simply a question of probability i.e the mutations occur as they have always done but the vaccine 'mops up' some of those so that only those with a distinct advantage survive?

I hope that makes sense ad I'd be grateful for your (or any other) opinion (unless it's that Bill The Bastard is cooking them up in his lab underneath The White House.

Yep this is it. The rate of mutation doesn't change with the introduction of vaccines, and the types of mutations don't change either (i.e. the mutations that help to evade antibodies aren't any more or less likely to arise with the use of vaccines). But if a mutation arises that does help to mask the virus from antibodies, a vaccinated person will be more likely to be infected with this variant than another variant, and therefore more likely to infect other vaccinated people.

I know a lot more about bacteria acquiring antibiotic resistance, but a lot of it is also applicable to viruses evolving resistance to vaccines.

 

[Meangirl815]

@Unspiralled - you sound like you understand these things better than I do so could you help me with a question? As I understand it when someone becomes infected with the virus it replicates itself in the body. Mutation can occur any time the virus replicates. So the more people who are infected the greater the chance of mutation. The mutations that don't provide an advantage compared to the previous variant either die out or become common by chance. The mutations that have an advantage e.g more infectious, greater replication can overtake and crowd out the previous versions e.g as the Delta variant has crowded out the Alpha variant.

My question is whether the chance that a mutation will have an advantage is changed by the introduction of a vaccine i.e. is the vaccine itself adversely changing the replication of the virus . Or is it simply a question of probability i.e the mutations occur as they have always done but the vaccine 'mops up' some of those so that only those with a distinct advantage survive?

I hope that makes sense ad I'd be grateful for your (or any other) opinion (unless it's that Bill The Bastard is cooking them up in his lab underneath The White House.



I don't mean this to sound harsh (but it might do so I apologise in advance) but I don't think being scared is the same as 'medical grounds'.

If you have been advised not to get the jab or have concerns and have discussed it with a health professional and decided that it's not right for you then I for one wouldn't criticise your decision in the slightest

On the other hand if you are scared because of what you have read online then you have almost certainly allowed yourself to be influenced by unqualified, deceitful and possibly downright crazy people. It doesn't make you a CT-ist but you have probably been influenced by some that are.

No I'm scared because of blood clots.

I'm already a 3x higher risk due to meds that i take (and need)

I also react badly to a lot of medications. Including allergies to morphine. And i had an extreme reaction to my BCG jab which made me ill and left me permanently scarred

 

[_basic_]

No I'm scared because of blood clots.

I'm already a 3x higher risk due to meds that i take (and need)

I also react badly to a lot of medications. Including allergies to morphine. And i had an extreme reaction to my BCG jab which made me ill and left me permanently scarred

Then you have a legitimate reason and if anyone calls you CT for that, ignore them

 

[Moth]

No I'm scared because of blood clots.

I'm already a 3x higher risk due to meds that i take (and need)

I also react badly to a lot of medications. Including allergies to morphine. And i had an extreme reaction to my BCG jab which made me ill and left me permanently scarred

Thank you for answering my comments. I agree that by no stretch of the imagination could you be described as a conspiracy theorist.

Please don't answer these next questions if you are not comfortable doing so but I do find it interesting to understand the rationale for making such a decision.

Do you think there a risk irrespective of which vaccine you might take? Have you spoken to a health professional about your concerns or is this your own assessment of the risk based on what you have heard about blood clots and your own understanding of the extent to which you would be vulnerable?

 

[MaineCoonMama]

'Time Traveller' Reveals When Aliens Will First Land On Earth — LADbible

Looks like we need to prepare ourselves, as a man from the future reckons he's got the info we need

apple.news

Time travel dude says aliens will be sighted on Earth in May next year.

 

[Woolmercardington]

'Time Traveller' Reveals When Aliens Will First Land On Earth — LADbible

Looks like we need to prepare ourselves, as a man from the future reckons he's got the info we need

apple.news

Time travel dude says aliens will be sighted on Earth in May next year.

Well, that should liven things up.

 

[mindlessness]

And I am not here to give evidence about things do your own research this is not a court it’s a gossip forum

If you make claims in a forum it's normal for people to ask you for further evidence. Responding with the over-used 'Do your own research' is a bit of a cop out I think.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

No I'm scared because of blood clots.

I'm already a 3x higher risk due to meds that i take (and need)

I also react badly to a lot of medications. Including allergies to morphine. And i had an extreme reaction to my BCG jab which made me ill and left me permanently scarred

Could you arrange to have it with your GP rather than at a mass-vacc centre? Would that make you less nervous about if you had a bad reaction? On the blood clots - Pfizer/Moderna don't seem to carry that risk so you could ask for one of those?

My feelings are that covid comes with way more risks than from the vaccines.

 

[L3moning]

From various news reports the odds of dying from the vaccine are about 1 in 650,000. For context that's similar odds to rolling four 20 sided dice and a four sided dice and getting five 1s in a single go.

At its worst Covid had a death rate of about 1 in 200, if I'm remembering correctly.

I know which odds I prefer. Although I got the Pfizer vaccine anyway, so its mostly moot.

Caveat that I'm not a doctor and this post is not medical advice and should not be used for any purpose.

 

[caroleffinbaskin]

'Time Traveller' Reveals When Aliens Will First Land On Earth — LADbible

Looks like we need to prepare ourselves, as a man from the future reckons he's got the info we need

apple.news

Time travel dude says aliens will be sighted on Earth in May next year.

Will they have to self isolate on arrival?

 

[Tublet83]

Took my children to a museum today and had the displeasure of an anti vaxxer protest coming past me - absolutely vile, disgusting language, and fighting in a city centre. Thankfully there wasn’t many of them.

Managed to dart into a shop so my children didn’t witness any of it. Vile.

 

[flopsymopsy]

I watch many of the other threads full of anti vax and anti mask sentiment. I’m frustrated. Essentially, I did my degree in biochemistry and so have a more comprehensive understanding of viral infection than many. HOWEVER. my main thought, through all of this, is I don’t care wether you think masks are uncomfortable or not. I don’t care wether you think you’re entitled to the freedom to carry a disease and infect others with it. I couldn’t care wether a mask lowers your ability to contract COVID-19 by 70%, or 50%, or 20% if you’re healthy. I couldn’t care about you not being able to go to the .

I care that wearing my mask will lower my risk of inadvertently passing it on, even when I’m asymptomatic, to those with immune systems functioning at a lower rate than mine. I care about protecting those who are clinically vulnerable. I care about decreasing the risk of viruses being able to infect anyone, because i understand the risk of mutation is lower without viral vectors. I care about the research done by every scientist who has worked so hard to protect us, in jobs that have been known to pay low wages for long hours, despite the life saving research they yield.

I KNOW it’s hard to be away from your family for this long. Trust me, I’m going through it. But I would rather do that, than infect them and never see them again, or infect others and know their family will never be complete again. This pandemic has done many things. Including highlighting the selfish in society.

 

[prozacprincess]

I see the death of Chris Eubanks son is being questioned in many CT domains online. That sort of thing really winds me up … why is every death of anyone ‘famous’ a god damn conspiracy? It’s a fuckin tragedy and using it to gain CT exposure is disgustingly low

 

[Superdude]

Dolores Cahill a favourite of CTs, gets 0.6% of the vote, showing exactly what people think of her.

 

[monga]

I watch many of the other threads full of anti vax and anti mask sentiment. I’m frustrated. Essentially, I did my degree in biochemistry and so have a more comprehensive understanding of viral infection than many. HOWEVER. my main thought, through all of this, is I don’t care wether you think masks are uncomfortable or not. I don’t care wether you think you’re entitled to the freedom to carry a disease and infect others with it. I couldn’t care wether a mask lowers your ability to contract COVID-19 by 70%, or 50%, or 20% if you’re healthy. I couldn’t care about you not being able to go to the .

I care that wearing my mask will lower my risk of inadvertently passing it on, even when I’m asymptomatic, to those with immune systems functioning at a lower rate than mine. I care about protecting those who are clinically vulnerable. I care about decreasing the risk of viruses being able to infect anyone, because i understand the risk of mutation is lower without viral vectors. I care about the research done by every scientist who has worked so hard to protect us, in jobs that have been known to pay low wages for long hours, despite the life saving research they yield.

I KNOW it’s hard to be away from your family for this long. Trust me, I’m going through it. But I would rather do that, than infect them and never see them again, or infect others and know their family will never be complete again. This pandemic has done many things. Including highlighting the selfish in society.

Isn’t it sad that all that hard work and dedication has been for nothing now that those scientists at the top have a big pay packet to fall back on. Those at the top seem the most selfish of all...Whitty April 2021https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/ne...y-uk-covid-spikes-years-travel-bans-hotspots/

 

[Superdude]

Don't see how Whitty is selfish - he's reached his position with hard work, gained experience and qualifications, and still does shifts as a hospital doctor. Warning people of the dangers of covid spikes is his job.

 

[User name taken]

I watch many of the other threads full of anti vax and anti mask sentiment. I’m frustrated. Essentially, I did my degree in biochemistry and so have a more comprehensive understanding of viral infection than many. HOWEVER. my main thought, through all of this, is I don’t care wether you think masks are uncomfortable or not. I don’t care wether you think you’re entitled to the freedom to carry a disease and infect others with it. I couldn’t care wether a mask lowers your ability to contract COVID-19 by 70%, or 50%, or 20% if you’re healthy. I couldn’t care about you not being able to go to the .

I care that wearing my mask will lower my risk of inadvertently passing it on, even when I’m asymptomatic, to those with immune systems functioning at a lower rate than mine. I care about protecting those who are clinically vulnerable. I care about decreasing the risk of viruses being able to infect anyone, because i understand the risk of mutation is lower without viral vectors. I care about the research done by every scientist who has worked so hard to protect us, in jobs that have been known to pay low wages for long hours, despite the life saving research they yield.

I KNOW it’s hard to be away from your family for this long. Trust me, I’m going through it. But I would rather do that, than infect them and never see them again, or infect others and know their family will never be complete again. This pandemic has done many things. Including highlighting the selfish in society.

Whether, whether, whether not wether. That over and done with, you want to continue wearing a mask to protect others? Good for you, except all boxes of masks unless N99 state they do not protect against corona virus. You say you care about protecting others, BS it's about virtue signalling and no one cares anymore.

 

[mindlessness]

Whether, whether, whether not wether. That over and done with, you want to continue wearing a mask to protect others? Good for you, except all boxes of masks unless N99 state they do not protect against corona virus. You say you care about protecting others, BS it's about virtue signalling and no one cares anymore.

Call it virtue signalling all you want but the reality is some people are willing to wear masks because they do care and they help prevent the transmission of Covid 19. That's a fact.
Go burn your masks and never wear one again, That's your decision to make! Just as it @flopsymopsy and others own decision to continue to wear one.

 

[User name taken]

Putting that's a fact after a statement does not make it soI would rather go by the facts from the mask manufacturers. Wear a mask don't wear a mask I couldn't care less what other people do, but I'm just too cynical to care anymore. Each take responsibility for their own health but do not virtue signal, that is the definition of selfishness.