Anti Conspiracy Theories #3

[Woolmercardington]

 

[Superdude]

There’s a lady on another thread so scared that shes going to have to hide her children inside the house while the army (uk) drag people out to forcibly inject them. Lots of other posters instead of reassuring her are feeding into her fears

This!

Under the guise of support, they're actually making people feel worse. Telling them how lucky they are to have "woken up" and how their wildest fears regarding the covid vaccines and the future are totally valid. It's manipulative and creepy to prey on people who are already anxious. It looks like reassurance, but it's the opposite - supposing an evil agenda behind every action by every governmental body, and choosing to believe a few discredited fake social media reports rather than any actual official data.

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

This.

 

[Moth]

Like I said to you earlier I have agreed to disagree with you as it’s clear we don’t see the world the same.

Putting your mask on so you aren’t unconscious too, is putting your own health first, in my opinion being unconscious is a state of needing urgent medical assistance I.e not in a good state of health. A valid reason to not want to be vaccinated is “I don’t want to be vaccinated” end of discussion. You don’t make up the threshold based on your opinion. I’d appreciate if you stopped quoting and attempting to belittle me as I’m finding it quite uncomfortable at this point. I’m happy to engage in a respectful debate or discussion with anyone who is respectful back but I feel at this point I could say that the sky is blue and youd poke holes in it.

Edit: Sorry hadn't seen the mod comment and other responses before I posted. But anyway ...

So far in this thread you have tried to promote the subject of deaths caused by vaccination by quoting another poster out of context, you then quoted one of my posts accusing me of 'smearing everyone with mud who has chosen to decline the vaccine' and then when I pointed out that I had done nothing of the kind you tried to pass it off as "agreeing to disagree". You have now tried to denigrate the fact that the vaccine benefits other people besides the individual as a 'card' that vaccinated people 'play'.

Now I hate to get territorial but that seems to be the way things work around here. This is the ANTI Conspiracy Theory thread, the only thread where those of us who don't believe the considerable amount of arrant nonsense posted on the the multiple Covid / Vaccine / Conspiracy Theory threads can post an opinion without risk of being deemed argumentative. I don't know if you're lost or simply trying to annex this thread in the way that all the others have been but if you post opinions about Covid or vaccinations that would typically be found on the numerous other threads, you will be challenged on them. If that makes you feel uncomfortable then there is an easy answer.

 

[Moth]

Why is this a conspiracy? Because you read it on the conspiracy thread?
It's quite clear that it's happening over there and Human Rights organisations are worried - maybe they're conspiracy theorists too

I clearly stated that he attacked with a scythe and needing disarming. It seems he may have been suffering mental illness though, however I agree the police did feel the need to protect themselves and won't have the skills first world countries do to deal with this without killing someone.

My counting is quite good, your empathy needs a check

Other people have been killed and tortured, but thats ok - they stupidly voted him in and deserve it, and its probably all made up anyway

Human rights abuses on the rise in the Philippines amid coronavirus lockdown | ITV News

The President of the Philippines has sanctioned the use of lethal force to keep his country of 100 million people in lockdown. | ITV National News

www.itv.com

I remember a phrase from when I was a child "they read with their eyes and understand with their elbows" (perhaps the adult version wasn't 'elbows').

How have you managed to interpret anything that I wrote as suggesting that what is happening in The Philippines is a conspiracy theory or that the human rights organisations that express concern about it are conspiracy theorists? I said "The HRW's interpretation that Duarte 'gave officials the explicit and very public go ahead to shoot people dead for defying Covid-19 related regulations' is, based on the article you linked, simply wrong too" - not a conspiracy theory - wrong - on the evidence that you presented. That wilful or perhaps uncontrollable misrepresentation by you is in itself classic conspiracy theorist logic.

Your appeal to empathy for the people of The Philippines is laughably self serving especially as I have commented on the oppressive nature of the Duarte regime in each of my posts.

So to be clear for you, nothing in this story is a conspiracy theory or a subject for levity except the way that it was misrepresented on a conspiracy theory thread to create the conspiracy theory that 'the police are shooting people for not wearing a mask properly' and then defended by a conspiracy theorist. All of that is very funny.

 

[flopsymopsy]

Those against the covid vaccine consistently play up the deaths from any vaccines in order to justify why they believe conspiracies and play down deaths from covid (they were old had underlying conditions etc) to justify why they don’t believe covid is a real threat. they’re not morally on the high ground, they just use emotive language when it suits their argument

 

[flopsymopsy]

Well I have my first vaccine tomorrow morning. I cannot wait to play my part in keeping those with weaker immune systems safer in society, and adding to the proportion of the population lucky enough to be afforded some level of immunity. I’ll take any and all side effects if it means keeping others safer, as I’m not a selfish arse! Will update regarding side effects for someone in the latest age group to be able to access the vaccine

 

[hereforthedrama1]

The thing about CTs is that they just completely bulldoze over emotions. I know people who have died of Covid, as I'm sure a lot of you do, and then people bold as brass (knowingly) talk in front of their grieving relatives/spouses/kids etc about how they don't believe Covid is real. IMAGINE how that would feel? The fucking heartache knowing these people that you once called friends (family, maybe) care so little about you and the person who has passed that they would rather spew their shit than acknowledge that a person has died. Whether they died 'of Covid' or 'with Covid' (a fun CT expression) is irrelevant, people are hurting, just shut the fuck up! Same with 9/11, thousands of people died and people want to spew their theories without a singular regard to the fact these people who sadly lost their lives were real, they had friends and family who probably have not stopped thinking about them. Then to have that brought back every single year with people calling them 'crisis actors' is ridiculous and a disgusting display of human behaviour. This pandemic has brought out the worst in people. People I grew up around I can no longer have a conversation with, can't even look in the eye because they make me so angry. Then I've got my pacifist mother going 'just ignore them', 'they're allowed opinions'. Sorry but no, you don't get to have an opinion on over 3 million global deaths. I'm glad she's privileged enough to ignore people interlinking the vaccine uptake with race and blaming Indian people for the fact our own Prime Minster (that she voted for btw) did not close the borders as he wanted his beloved trade deal, or talking about 'illegals' coming over 'without tests' (a load of shite of course, people aren't illegal).

 

[Tublet83]

Putting this here before I get lynched elsewhere

 

[Moth]

Apparently people opposing the vaccine are not 'anti-vax', they just want 'freedom of choice'. For some that 'freedom' also appears to include the freedom to lie about the purpose, contents, efficacy and effects of the vaccine and to threaten people who disagree with them. Leaving those extremists and zealots aside the appeal for 'freedom' is interesting.

In history those who posed a risk to society either literally or morally were often excluded from that society altogether. The term to 'ostracise' originated in ancient Greece and described a democratic process by which people were expelled from Athens for ten years. In modern times society has become much more accepting of people that would have once been seen as a threat and has developed other, less stringent approaches to those that refuse to observe societal norms.

However in recent years we have seen a growing push back to even these more enlightened societal boundaries usually clothed in the notion of 'freedom'. The modern concept of 'freedom' largely originates from the US and I would argue was spawned by the unholy marriage between the imagined narrative of American history and the comforts and entitlements of the modern capitalist society (at least for some). In practice it really seems to mean 'freedom without repercussions'. The freedom to do and say exactly what I want but also to be protected from the consequences of it. The historian Philip Deloria once described 'Americanness' as "a particular working out of a desire to preserve stability and truth while enjoying absolute anarchic freedom". The product of this fantasy ranges from the stupidity of people claiming that driving laws don't apply to them to opposing any form of gun control and all stops in between and probably beyond.

Unfortunately, in recent years that concept of 'freedom' has been ever more rapidly imported into the UK and greatly accelerated by the pressures brought about by the 'Covid-19' pandemic. Thus we have people who want to be free not to wear a mask or be vaccinated but with the assurance that they will be cared for if they get sick, to be free from the societal responsibilities while still enjoying all the rights and privileges that society provides.

So when I read that people are not 'anti-vax', they only want the 'freedom' to choose not to be vaccinated in a society where nobody is being forcibly vaccinated, what I understand is that they want the freedom to choose not to be vaccinated and not to suffer any consequences for exercising that freedom. They don't want the vaccine and don't want to be excluded from some public settings or denied the opportunity to work in certain jobs. In short they want their cake and to eat it. They want their freedom without consequences.

 

[flopsymopsy]

Thought this may be appreciated here…

 

[MaineCoonMama]

I'll read the CT thread occasionally in the hope of finding a post about ancient aliens, the moon landing, cryptids etc as I'm genuinely interested in those topics. Most of what I see on there is discussion about the current vaccine peppered with 'oh mah gawd look what Australia's doing now' posts which are almost always easily debunked with a quick search on your preferred engine. Of course if I read something that is not true I'll point out the flaws in the post, do people think because Australia is so far away they can make up any shit they like and people will believe it before the carrier pigeons get the news back to us that we are being used as a scare tactic for the Northern Hemisphere? Jesus Murphy.

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

 

[JLXRD]

This was put through a family members door along with the covid tests they had ordered even the postman’s going mad. She’s considering reporting it as it’s really not on.
(Have cropped it to hide the bit that says which local DO she has.)

 

[Moolo]

My thing is this - if someone doesn't want to get the vaccine than that's completely their choice - but what I struggle with is the (hopefully few) people saying they wont get vaccinated or wear a mask or social distance or test.

At least do one thing to help limit the spread especially with such a contagious variant going around

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

Why do you or anyone else for that matter think they are entitled to know the why?! Surely the only people that should expect a conversation about the whys on not taking a vaccine or any medication should be between a health care professional and the patient and it should be done in private. It’s not really up to joe public to be judge and jury of whether someone’s reasons are valid or not in your humble opinion. Your vaccine protects you if someone else doesn’t want it it doesn’t make your vaccine any less effective for you. Coronavirus is what’s killing people. It’s a ruthless virus that’s destroyed so many lives whether directly from the virus or indirectly from restrictions.

Ive had 19 vaccines but because I deny this one at this time I have been labelled an anti vaxxer, a murderer, a misinformation spreader. It’s bullshit. I’m not anti vax for declining one vaccination offered to me.

I do think some people’s hesistancy to get the vaccine (not saying everyone’s or yours) stems a lot from the mis information that is circulating on social media and the internet. Mis information that is spread by the very radical thinkers who think the pandemic is not real and are very much Covid deniers/anti vax.

If only people could speak directly to a medical professional/doctor about their concerns and then come to an informed decision which is based on truth and fact.

 

[MaineCoonMama]

I had my first Covid jab on Tuesday last, the first thing I did when I got home was pop a fridge magnet on the jab site. I'm really disappointed to report that none of the magnets stuck to my arm.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

Something I said to a friend when we were discussing anti-vaxxers and vaccine hesitancy, is that from my point of view, you're taking part of a medical experiment whether you like it or not. The options are getting covid with no protection and see what happens in the short and long term OR get vaccinated with a highly studied and researched vaccine and see what happens in the short and long term. Given what we know covid can do, I'd rather be in the vaccine group rather than the covid one.

 

[mindlessness]

Something I’ve noticed here on Tattle recently is some posters who frequent the anti-vax/Covid threads popping up elsewhere whenever the vaccine is discussed, leading to almost always a topic derailment. There’s a weird righteous attitude too as if others are so so mean for responding and refuting their claims. I’ve responded myself, but have realised 1) it just leads to further topic derailment and 2) they’re not taking anything on board so what’s the point

 

[Prefrontalmedialcortex]

A while ago I shared an article about vaccine efficacy or something to that effect and I was told off for trying to “push my views on others.” But it is okay for all the Covid threads to be full of their views/opinions and that isn’t them pushing their views on others? Make it make sense.