Afghanistan

[Ahahha]

Harsh but tbh I just don’t get on what basis Afghans (or Nowzad employees) are allowed to leave. I mean they’re practically all at risk of a terrifying regime so the whole population is eligible to emigrate surely Not sure why the Nozwad employees would get priority, but maybe I’m missing something. I feel so sorry for the Afghans who want to leave, they must feel helpless.

Also would have thought everyone would get a passport months ago if they possibly could, preparing for potential disruption and crisis situations, but maybe that’s not how it operates there?

they wasn't getting priority actually our government okay them to come over if Ben the twit who is supposed to be in chargenfoke his job they all be safe he decided that a crappy car was more.important then pen his workers and dogs and cats I really hope they think of an plan b because this was a joke Boris and ben will have blood on there hands im raging can tell Ben hasn't got a heart 2 hours before and they was home and dry they had been there for 22 hours it's a joke so it's not like they was cutting the line Ben told them to turn up they did and it went peat tong and Mr Ben must of knew about tje rule change so why not go out in the street get them and this mess wouldn't be like this we needed a win

if turkey people cant get a passport properly then how do you think a war torn country will its not easy people don't want to think our government hasn't lied or done anything wrong we all live in a better life then most but stop been stupid about it all ita not easy to get a passport [/B]

 

[kev1974]

I can imagine they are going to sell them on, there’s no need for them now, and I wouldn’t take any risk of letting any other group getting near them, can you imagine….. and if the airline has to close then at least there’s some money in the pot.
they might have offered them to be fair to the rescue attempt but again, flying loads out on an Afghan plane, it’s a clear target isnt it. Where as shot at empty, it sounds awful, but it’s just the brave pilots.

Those planes are probably leased, most planes are, so the true owner has probably ordered them to be moved to safety.

In fact the engines are often on separate leases to the plane because of their immense value so that can be another third party with the power to order them taken to safety.

 

[Rita Chevrolet]

Sky News showed yesterday an ex-US colonel who with fellow veterans and some on the ground out there have been taking vulnerable people through the fences & security at the airport and putting them onto planes; Its apparently not that difficult to bypass at the paperwork and rubbish then is it??

Wallace is a twit of the highest order - he knew damned-well about that rule change but let the party go through hell to get to the airport then pulled the rug from under them. Why do that anyway? Why were they not allowed to leave when they got there and have done with it?? If he still has a career at the end of this fiasco I would be very surprised

 

[Raininvain]

The Pen guy is coming back to the U.K himself its reported in the Sun online. Its very sad, I hope the animals and the staff will be o.k. They will all have to take a few animals each or worse case scenario PTS. Its totally sickening really. Maybe when things settle down a bit they will be able to get out then?

 

[Underthetabletop]

People aren’t pretending the gov havent done wrong. Something has clearly gone wrong
But as a British cabinet member could you stand by and watch people go through the gate with scant paperwork knowing that we can’t get British people past the Americans and Taliban on the gates? Ben Wallace can’t just say duck you to every nation who has also been hindered by Biden changing the rules, smash down the walls, and let hell break loose for Pens staff.

Those planes are probably leased, most planes are, so the true owner has probably ordered them to be moved to safety.

In fact the engines are often on separate leases to the plane because of their immense value so that can be another third party with the power to order them taken to safety.

Ah, never knew that! That’s interesting. Makes you wonder then who really does control the skies.

they wasn't getting priority actually our government okay them to come over if Ben the twit who is supposed to be in chargenfoke his job they all be safe he decided that a crappy car was more.important then pen his workers and dogs and cats I really hope they think of an plan b because this was a joke Boris and ben will have blood on there hands im raging can tell Ben hasn't got a heart 2 hours before and they was home and dry they had been there for 22 hours it's a joke so it's not like they was cutting the line Ben told them to turn up they did and it went peat tong and Mr Ben must of knew about tje rule change so why not go out in the street get them and this mess wouldn't be like this we needed a win

if turkey people cant get a passport properly then how do you think a war torn country will its not easy people don't want to think our government hasn't lied or done anything wrong we all live in a better life then most but stop been stupid about it all ita not easy to get a passport [/B]

Also, what’s this thing about a car? You’ve mentioned it a few times and the only thing I can see is that one was lifted into a relatively empty plane before Pen even started his journey to his chartered plane.

 

[Ahahha]

Sky News showed yesterday an ex-US colonel who with fellow veterans and some on the ground out there have been taking vulnerable people through the fences & security at the airport and putting them onto planes; Its apparently not that difficult to bypass at the paperwork and rubbish then is it??

Wallace is a twit of the highest order - he knew damned-well about that rule change but let the party go through hell to get to the airport then pulled the rug from under them. Why do that anyway? Why were they not allowed to leave when they got there and have done with it?? If he still has a career at the end of this fiasco I would be very surprised

There a petition to get Wallace out and pen and the team are going back for round 2 today apparently if the kabul rescue Charlotte American can do it we can hopefully pen and his team have been in touch with our government for a paln of action if not Ben the twit will come out of this the worst of it

 

[Merpedy]

The Pen guy is coming back to the U.K himself its reported in the Sun online. Its very sad, I hope the animals and the staff will be o.k. They will all have to take a few animals each or worse case scenario PTS. Its totally sickening really. Maybe when things settle down a bit they will be able to get out then?

Honestly I don’t have any hope for people getting out once we leave, unless they flee the country through a border themselves

Am I right I’m thinking that UK’s scheme for Afghanistan is just going to focus on people who fled themselves?

~ ~

apparently the whole team actually managed to get past the gates and into the airport before Biden changed the rules. Heartbreaking tbh

the American rescue is still in the same situation as yesterday and have said on Twitter that there is no plane. Someone on Twitter has said that they used 1 million of the funds they had (not sure what currency) which seems a bit dodgy without a plane

 

[Ahahha]

People aren’t pretending the gov havent done wrong. Something has clearly gone wrong
But as a British cabinet member could you stand by and watch people go through the gate with scant paperwork knowing that we can’t get British people past the Americans and Taliban on the gates? Ben Wallace can’t just say duck you to every nation who has also been hindered by Biden changing the rules, smash down the walls, and let hell break loose for Pens staff.


Ah, never knew that! That’s interesting. Makes you wonder then who really does control the skies.


Also, what’s this thing about a car? You’ve mentioned it a few times and the only thing I can see is that one was lifted into a relatively empty plane before Pen even started his journey to his chartered plane.

Pen and his team should.of been let thro Ben Wallace is a disgrace of a man he knew the rules changes and did nothing as usual and don't get me started on Biden think orange man could have done a better job and he's not that great and pen actually wanted out 2 weeks ago but had to do alot for his staff while 2 of our govement was sunbathing knowing fine well what was going on there all idiots and you know something I realised today no snp member hasn't said anything about this bloody mess

 

[Underthetabletop]

Pen and his team should.of been let thro Ben Wallace is a disgrace of a man he knew the rules changes and did nothing as usual and don't get me started on Biden think orange man could have done a better job and he's not that great and pen actually wanted out 2 weeks ago but had to do alot for his staff while 2 of our govement was sunbathing knowing fine well what was going on there all idiots and you know something I realised today no snp member hasn't said anything about this bloody mess

But why just pen and his team? It’s not a dig, I’m just genuinely curious as to why him and his people who havent got documents but people aren’t demanding Wallace to go and raging about the other British nationals still stuck outside the airport.

 

[kev1974]

The Pen guy is coming back to the U.K himself its reported in the Sun online. Its very sad, I hope the animals and the staff will be o.k. They will all have to take a few animals each or worse case scenario PTS. Its totally sickening really. Maybe when things settle down a bit they will be able to get out then?

They were originally stray dogs. I imagine they'll just let them back on the streets to rejoin the vast number of other stray animals there?

Yes it's tragic.

BUT there is an absolute humanitarian catastrophe unfolding before our eyes out there (thanks Joe) and it's likely going to get a lot lot worse within a week if yesterday's bombing is a sign of the chaos that Isis-K are keen to bring.

The guy should have an immense career in PR ahead of him though for the amount of headlines and public feeling he's been able to make all about him and some stray dogs, rather than the hundreds of thousands of people and children also wanting to escape the probable upcoming bloodbath and not going to make it either.

 

[xxAprilxx]

But why just pen and his team? It’s not a dig, I’m just genuinely curious as to why him and his people who havent got documents but people aren’t demanding Wallace to go and raging about the other British nationals still stuck outside the airport.

I'm a huge animal lover but I agree with this. I've had to stop looking at Twitter as everyone seems to be only going on about him and the dogs. What about all of the other men, women and children!? I really do hope that he gets out because if he doesn't, all of the headline will be about him.

 

[Merpedy]

But why just pen and his team? It’s not a dig, I’m just genuinely curious as to why him and his people who havent got documents but people aren’t demanding Wallace to go and raging about the other British nationals still stuck outside the airport.

British nationals are likely to have the documents needed and they get past security much faster. They actually seem to be on a priority list

people could complain about other Afghan nationals but the sad reality is that we don’t know many or any of them. This story has stuck because there’s people to follow, most stories don’t stick because people can’t follow those specific nationals

I remember there was an interpreter who was denied entry by the UK for some odd reason. I don’t know what happened to him since and news didn’t seem to say anything since. Though there was another interpreter on the news yesterday who did manage to get out but I don’t think it was the same guy

 

[Yel]

But why just pen and his team? It’s not a dig, I’m just genuinely curious as to why him and his people who havent got documents but people aren’t demanding Wallace to go and raging about the other British nationals still stuck outside the airport.

I think it would have looked even worse if pen and his friends/colleagues were able to get out while many high risk individuals were left in.

Twitter mobs want to simplify a very complicated situation to beat people they don't like with it. Don't think that helps anyone.

 

[grace28]

They were originally stray dogs. I imagine they'll just let them back on the streets to rejoin the vast number of other stray animals there?

Yes it's tragic.

BUT there is an absolute humanitarian catastrophe unfolding before our eyes out there (thanks Joe) and it's likely going to get a lot lot worse within a week if yesterday's bombing is a sign of the chaos that Isis-K are keen to bring.

The guy should have an immense career in PR ahead of him though for the amount of headlines and public feeling he's been able to make all about him and some stray dogs, rather than the hundreds of thousands of people and children also wanting to escape the probable upcoming bloodbath and not going to make it either.

I do feel for the staff and the animals, but sadly they'll be less entitled then traslators and liaisons to the British and US government whose life would be in greater risk should they stay, and to whom we do have a moral and legal obligation to. Pen, is a white ex military man and would be a target. He has being a thorn in the side of the government and run a PR campaign, but I think this is far as it'll go now. I doubt any of his staff will get out.

I was reading there were very few civilisation contractors left to evacuate as their companies ( mainly French) saw the writing on the wall months ago. Begs the question why did diplomats flee the embassy leaving all that documenting available when they had months to destroy it all.

 

[Ahahha]

Wallace told pen to be there and he would get thro with his staff and animals and pen offered up the rest of the seats for people. Honestly don't get how people don't get it our govemrent keeps letting this man down je was there for23 hours so he wasn't cutting corners or anything I seriously hope they think of a plan b on this because its terrible he served for us 20 years for what because he's been let down.

 

[Underthetabletop]

Wallace told pen to be there and he would get thro with his staff and animals and pen offered up the rest of the seats for people. Honestly don't get how people don't get it our govemrent keeps letting this man down je was there for23 hours so he wasn't cutting corners or anything I seriously hope they think of a plan b on this because its terrible he served for us 20 years for what because he's been let down.

Ah, now I get it. The ex serviceman angle. But do you not care that people put their lives at risk to serve the British government by working as translators etc? They have been threatened despite what is said about safe camps for years, have marks on their doors, family threatened etc, they deserve this escape as much of not MORE then pens staff. And yes, things havent gone as expected for him, but come on he hasn’t queued for days outside the airport waving a passport that might be nicked in ten seconds
Again, it’s not a dig, but we have to stop focusing on him and consider about these people. It only takes google to see there what’s happening outside the Twitter sphere

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....n-panic-and-despair-in-kabul-as-time-runs-out

Or does a British cabbie not count because it appears to have been a family trip home?

British nationals are likely to have the documents needed and they get past security much faster. They actually seem to be on a priority list

people could complain about other Afghan nationals but the sad reality is that we don’t know many or any of them. This story has stuck because there’s people to follow, most stories don’t stick because people can’t follow those specific nationals

I remember there was an interpreter who was denied entry by the UK for some odd reason. I don’t know what happened to him since and news didn’t seem to say anything since. Though there was another interpreter on the news yesterday who did manage to get out but I don’t think it was the same guy

But pens team aren’t British and have only got the paperwork because pen has been a complete nag…. And people with real British passports are still stuck trying to get noticed!

 

[WhatwouldPrinnyDo]

Whilst I applaud Pen for his stand, it’s surely time to try and get himself out before he is stuck and becomes a target. It’s hard to know which you news report to believe now, but there are reports that if you’re not one of the 1000 already in Kabul airport you will not get evacuated, he might have left it too late, I hope not.
Hopefully he can help his staff after he’s in the UK, though I think it’s likely to be pretty impossible.

 

[bubbadabut]

He needs to get himself out now, unless he is expecting a personal exfiltration by the SAS (which wouldn't surprise me at this stage). Even without the Biden intervention it's not a matter of his private plane just rocking up at the airport, loading up and setting off again. That airport is a chaotic, logistical nightmare with every country trying to get their people out. It's sad, but a bunch of stray animals and veterinary staff are nowhere near as high priority as the Afghans who have bravely helped the UK military. I have sympathy for him but he needs to admit its a lost cause and get out while he can.

 

[Merpedy]

But pens team aren’t British and have only got the paperwork because pen has been a complete nag…. And people with real British passports are still stuck trying to get noticed!

Yes, and as I explained it’s hard for people to care about them because they’re not on social media or on the news regularly. People tend to find it hard to care or be angry about someone they don’t know or see or have contact with, especially when it comes to situations in another country completely

The news is partially to blame. There isn’t a whole lot of talk about other British citizens being stuck there or many interpreters. I primarily watch BBC and I’ve seen stories about maybe three or four different interpreters for example (though I watch the news mainly in the morning and evening, and I imagine nothing big happens during the day on that front anyway)

Pen probably feels like he has a duty of care to both his staff and the animals. Doesn’t matter if we value animals less, this is his job and that’s going to have an impact on the value assigned. His staff is also at risk, and he has talked about it and it’s one of the reasons he got attention. A lot of them are female and are educated and they have worked with a British foreigner. Not a priority but you can hardly blame Pen for caring about his staff that he has known for a good while now

Honestly, the mindset that some people trying their best to get out are not British is also just not for me. Yes, British citizens should be given a priority (and majority of them are) but other Afghan’s at risk should also be recognised. This talk of how his staff isn’t British is like saying that they don’t deserve to be helped. Priority or not, I know of their situation far better than I know of a few thousand women or men (which also, angry but not emotionally invested in - people probably think I’m bad for this but it’s the reality) or individuals who are somehow notable (interpreters and what mot, but see my point above on why it’s hard to be emotionally invested or keep up with that)

I’d also argue that the fact that a lot of people probably only had visas, leading to a change in the documents required by the US, means that there are many who aren’t on a priority list who have visas. Pen’s team isn’t an anomaly in that sense

 

[Underthetabletop]

Yes, and as I explained it’s hard for people to care about them because they’re not on social media or on the news regularly. People tend to find it hard to care or be angry about someone they don’t know or see or have contact with, especially when it comes to situations in another country completely

The news is partially to blame. There isn’t a whole lot of talk about other British citizens being stuck there or many interpreters. I primarily watch BBC and I’ve seen stories about maybe three or four different interpreters for example (though I watch the news mainly in the morning and evening, and I imagine nothing big happens during the day on that front anyway)

Pen probably feels like he has a duty of care to both his staff and the animals. Doesn’t matter if we value animals less, this is his job and that’s going to have an impact on the value assigned. His staff is also at risk, and he has talked about it and it’s one of the reasons he got attention. A lot of them are female and are educated and they have worked with a British foreigner. Not a priority but you can hardly blame Pen for caring about his staff that he has known for a good while now

Honestly, the mindset that some people trying their best to get out are not British is also just not for me. Yes, British citizens should be given a priority (and majority of them are) but other Afghan’s at risk should also be recognised. This talk of how his staff isn’t British is like saying that they don’t deserve to be helped. Priority or not, I know of their situation far better than I know of a few thousand women or men (which also, angry but not emotionally invested in - people probably think I’m bad for this but it’s the reality) or individuals who are somehow notable (interpreters and what mot, but see my point above on why it’s hard to be emotionally invested or keep up with that)

I’d also argue that the fact that a lot of people probably only had visas, leading to a change in the documents required by the US, means that there are many who aren’t on a priority list who have visas. Pen’s team isn’t an anomaly in that sense

I completely agree with most of that, it’s compelling in a morbid way about how again, the cult of social media and personality has lead to this situation, it feels a bit distopian that we are technically arguing about who should be rescued more based on what we have heard/ read about them.
I think maybe I put it wrongly about owns team. For me, it’s not that they are not British citizens that’s the issue, it’s the fact that we are missing people who are dual nationality, it’s frustrating that some are saying on other places that basically, they deserve to be out because of animals, but people visiting there made their beds because they are not fully British- it just feels so wrong. And it’s just frustrating that all the panic is on one person who happens to be white, ex military and has a platform.

I think though for me it stems from a worry about what comes next for the people granted asylum and left behind providing they survive. Option a, They either have to make a run for border and get turned back because the nations around are saving their arses and wanting to work with the taliban. Option b, fight against them and be killed. Or option c, they join up. And for those who worked with various nation’s governments, armies and even private security wgat do they know. And what will they share for being left to their fate