I think a lot of people have an awful lot more empathy for helpless animals than people to be honest. The adults there chose to have children knowing how bad things could turn out to be. Its not their fault either but they had a choice the animals have no choice and no real voice. Apart from this guy. A life is a life.
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This thing about adults choosing to have children keeps coming up, it's so dehumanising, they didn't know the taliban we're going to take over again, having children is a basic human desire, what about people here that have children despite the looming climate change crisis?
But clearly you think animals are more important than Afghan humans so I don't know why I'm bothering tbh.
But clearly you think animals are more important than Afghan humans so I don't know why I'm bothering tbh.
Oh come on, are you really saying that people in Afghanistan and other areas shouldn’t have had children in a time of peace just incase the taliban came back??? What about in say Ireland, the troubles are brewing again? What about in Australia, they could have wildfires and flooding and need be evacuated again? We all love New Zealand, they have earthquakes. You can’t say that this is people’s own fault for having kids. And what stage do you say it’s ok to have them again?
And let’s be honest, the western world went there, we imposed western democracy on them, what they had wasn’t great but they are not a nation suited for what we have. And now we are technically saying that actually after we told them life was safe and no bad guys would ever get them again, it’s thier fault for building lives
I prefer animals over people more reliable and I think you all think he was jumping ect he waited for 23 hours to be turned away he wasn't going on any government airplane he was going to wait he even had 3 days of food for everyone madness he never que jumped nothing we are privileged over here and you can tell in this thread I'm out I hope the government knows they have blood on there hands I hope charlotte gets the dogs and herself out
It was very, very unstable anyway, there were allied forces holding the country together and there were continued terrorist attacks all the time.Like that maternity hospital just outside Kabul where mothers and babies got shot dead. You don't have to be a genius to know there might be further trouble somewhere along the line.... They chose to have children in the middle of all that. If you think that's a sensible thing to do then that's up to you.
Sitting here in the sunshine looking out to sea and realise how lucky I was to be born here.
This is so heartbreaking
This is so heartbreaking
I also feel pain when I see animals suffering. In a way they are just as innocent as small children - they didn't cause the war, they didn't cause climate change etc yet they are the ones suffering and they are at the end of the chain.
I remember seeing the burnt kangaroo corpses when the wildfires in Australia were out of control, I saw the dogs sweltering in the cages at Kabul Airport - they don't deserve this.
Humans and children especially don't deserve this either, but these situations have been created by our specimen.
This whole situation in Afghanistan is brutal and crazy.
I think in this thread you are one of the ones who get it pen wad taken over children and woman what will happen to them now also I really think some of these people forget ul and USA government left papers behind so that the taliban and isis know who to look out for shambles but remember the government ain't done nothing wrong also while I'm here see the animals you want to leave behind most the soldiers have said that the animals have them kept them sane in war not only afghanstan and we as people think it's okay to leave them behind after helping soldiers with ptsd madness thars all I can say I know alot of soldiers who get it we dont get it as we ain't been there we are seeing the news ect maybe if you speak to people who has been over there you might understand more and have a heartSitting here in the sunshine looking out to sea and realise how lucky I was to be born here.
This is so heartbreaking
Oh stop it now. We all get it, we are all sympathetic to the animals, I’m a massive animal lover but come on, 103 people were blown to bloody bits yesterday! The people seeing that at the airport are stuck with that image for life and then have further trauma to come, they can’t have therapy etc and help to get past it. And I’m fed up of someone saying that because I don’t agree with you, I am heartless and privileged. Or are we only saying certain people can have trauma? Because it’s going to be pretty traumatic seeing your husband beaten and shot and your unmarried sister being a forced bride. And having to live this with no support services.
There’s women now who will be taking their own lives to avoid whats coming, killing their own kids. If you have a heart surely you can feel ashamed that this is what things have come to, then harping on about what a minister is or isn’t alleged to have promised.
I’m heartbroken for them all. For every man, woman, child and animal who are innocently caught in this. The photos and videos I have seen from the immediate aftermath of the bombings shocked me to the core.
according to the news I’ve just read, no one else will be let into the airport to board a plane to the UK. So Pen will have to stay or try and find another way out. I pray he, his staff and animals, remain safe. I am sure they will make a decision about the animals to ensure they are not tortured but I wonder what they will all do themselves? They so deserved to get out but so did all the other innocent victims. I feel so helpless sitting watching the news and I am scared for the future.
according to the news I’ve just read, no one else will be let into the airport to board a plane to the UK. So Pen will have to stay or try and find another way out. I pray he, his staff and animals, remain safe. I am sure they will make a decision about the animals to ensure they are not tortured but I wonder what they will all do themselves? They so deserved to get out but so did all the other innocent victims. I feel so helpless sitting watching the news and I am scared for the future.
You do get that this hasn’t been a slow thing over time don’t you bits have happened, but ‘we’ quashed it. The major insurgence has come as they knew the deadline was coming. People can’t hold off not having babies just incase forever. Devout people might not believe in contraception so babies happen, do we force coils up them all just incase? Should people have aborted wanted babies when they knew what was happening?
Or do we just need to amend the human rights act article 8 to say you can have a family under x circumstances
Really the whole having children argument can also be pushed on to animals. Why have pets or rescue animals when you know the situation is unstable?
I have seen a lot of people talking about poverty and kids and how that’s not okay for people to bring kids into, even in situations where people were above the poverty line and that low income line - kids are simply expensive to bring up and people seem to underestimate that. Really, who are we to judge whether someone should have kids or not?
I imagine Afghan women (and men to a certain extent) have limited access to abortion clinics (especially outside of the capital and surrounding areas), contraception and the like. It may also be against their culture, religion or personal beliefs. We’re just not the ones to judge
I have seen a lot of people talking about poverty and kids and how that’s not okay for people to bring kids into, even in situations where people were above the poverty line and that low income line - kids are simply expensive to bring up and people seem to underestimate that. Really, who are we to judge whether someone should have kids or not?
I imagine Afghan women (and men to a certain extent) have limited access to abortion clinics (especially outside of the capital and surrounding areas), contraception and the like. It may also be against their culture, religion or personal beliefs. We’re just not the ones to judge
I’ve just read this. There are still a couple of thousand people left, too many but we have to work with what we have now.
But so far just the UK have got 12,000 people to safety and that’s just the uk. That’s massive. And to think every nation there could have loaded the army and left those people behind. That’s 12,000 people in Britain alone not being killed and tortured.
www.standard.co.uk
But so far just the UK have got 12,000 people to safety and that’s just the uk. That’s massive. And to think every nation there could have loaded the army and left those people behind. That’s 12,000 people in Britain alone not being killed and tortured.
RAF airlifts 12,000 out of Afghanistan as departure deadline looms
There are fears hundreds could be left behind as the terror threat in Kabul increases.
Probably best leaving the children topic as it's not something that constantly comes up, I believe it only came up today with one poster and their opinion? It will otherwise derail the whole thread.
I wonder if with a phased withdrawal embassy staff and people who worked with the Western forces would have been left behind, or if that was the plan to an extent
Presumably Taliban would have taken longer to get into power, and so those people wouldn’t have been deemed at immediate risk. Plus, if Afghan government loses its fully their fault (from a shallow view point) so the West wouldn’t have that duty to help their previous employees. This situation may have worked out in their favour in a way
Also, I know the Biden line about hunting Isis-K is meant to be a ‘notable’ moment but it just looks so cringy
Presumably Taliban would have taken longer to get into power, and so those people wouldn’t have been deemed at immediate risk. Plus, if Afghan government loses its fully their fault (from a shallow view point) so the West wouldn’t have that duty to help their previous employees. This situation may have worked out in their favour in a way
Also, I know the Biden line about hunting Isis-K is meant to be a ‘notable’ moment but it just looks so cringy
I think we had some crazy notion that all the systems put in place would just well, hold…. That all the people from our foreign offices could go home, that we had done enough despite what was being noted over the years and everyone would just adapt to this nice smooth running of things and become another western nation after all, what we do works, why wouldn’t it elsewhere
And just hope that any major trouble could be sorted with the private security services there
yeh I agree too, there should be an upper limit on certain jobs like this
I don’t know how this sounds to you but I cant stop thinking about the ramifications of the last few weeks.
Setting aside the immediate and obvious ones, I’m talking about the trust deficit. The behaviour of Trump and our own leaders (Brexit) really contributed to a deepening divide between ‘us and them’ and I genuinely am concerned about what this shows and what it enables. How can any country truly look to the west as a trustworthy partner? In our day to day lives we encounter anger and mistrust and self-entitlement - will this make it worse?
I truly hope not. I do believe in good people and that people are mostly good but… I dunno. It’s too hard to watch and even saying that makes me feel guilty. I feel helpless and worried
Setting aside the immediate and obvious ones, I’m talking about the trust deficit. The behaviour of Trump and our own leaders (Brexit) really contributed to a deepening divide between ‘us and them’ and I genuinely am concerned about what this shows and what it enables. How can any country truly look to the west as a trustworthy partner? In our day to day lives we encounter anger and mistrust and self-entitlement - will this make it worse?
I truly hope not. I do believe in good people and that people are mostly good but… I dunno. It’s too hard to watch and even saying that makes me feel guilty. I feel helpless and worried
I think a lot of people left will end up signing up to the Taliban, partly for personal protection, but also probably also for anger towards the foreign countries who have used them and then just abandoned them to their fate. This whole situation has effectively acted like a recruitment drive for the taliban at this stage
It’s a very scary situation! I think there’s a massive ulterior motive behind US pulling out. It’s been orchestrated and planned. There will be some political benefit for this I’m sure!
I put my kids to bed last night and I just sat and looked at them and imagined the thousands in Afghanistan last night with their kids probably on their knees while bombs was going off everywhere! Imagine the pure fear of them parents!
I put my kids to bed last night and I just sat and looked at them and imagined the thousands in Afghanistan last night with their kids probably on their knees while bombs was going off everywhere! Imagine the pure fear of them parents!