Afghanistan

[WritersBlock]

I remember being told that the vast majority of major conflicts and wars are caused by disputes over religion.

Far from being the 'source of peace' it claims to be, it has caused untold damage across the world.

In fact, I would say religion is one of the worst things we have in this world, or was ever introduced. The world would be a far more pleasant and peaceful place without it.

I understand your point but I’m not sure that religion is the issue: it’s the interpretation of scriptures/ideas which is the underlying problem. I think conflict comes from different people’s interpretations of whatever faith they’re following and then clashing with those who do not agree or choose not to follow. Or want to impose their interpretation on others.

 

[emm]

I don't see another war coming. The world's is always absolutely filled with conflict. Comparatively compared with the history of humanity we live in times that are very peaceful.

yeah agree, I don't see a full on world war as I think countries genuinely do not want this, what I do see is an increase in low level violence, terrorist attacks, regional instability etc. I think there is a chance Afghanistan will descend into civil war, Germany (who iirc are the biggest aid donor to Afghanistan) have just announced they are pulling funding because of the Taliban takeover and have also said that Afghanistan is unable to sustain itself without foreign aid, once people are basically plunged into poverty things will get really dire

 

[IngressUK]

I hear this argument so often from every second Bob and Steve dawwwn da pub.

Religion has never caused war, land has never caused wars, resources have never caused wars. It's human ego that causes war.

There is no evidence that any apparently religion-based wars were actually about religion and not about resources or land or something else.

The world would be a degenerate place without spiritual values. The British Empire and European Enlightenment were founded on a solid bed of Christianity. Our legal systems, great works of art and architecture, our moral civilisation, grew from a religious soil.

May I suggest you Google 'Religious Wars', or 'Wars about religion', before automatically dismissing a valid point of view.

You will see the list of religious wars over time is fairly long.

 

[IngressUK]

This is a simplistic view held by many uneducated people about the nature of human beings.

Excuse me?

Just because someone holds a different view to your own, DOES NOT make them uneducated.

For your information I hold a degree, therefore are not 'uneducated' as you wrongly suggest. However, I believe people are entitled to hold an opinion that differs, without being labeled as something they aren't.

 

[rosewinner]

Excuse me?

Just because someone holds a different view to your own, DOES NOT make them uneducated.

For your information I hold a degree, therefore are not 'uneducated' as you wrongly suggest. However, I believe people are entitled to hold an opinion that differs, without being labeled as something they aren't.

Do you have anything to answer re the points I've made? I'm not sure anything of use comes from your defensiveness.

I didn't realise that a degree certificate was a sign of education, but ok.

 

[IngressUK]

Do you have anything to answer re the points I've made? I'm not sure anything of use comes from your defensiveness.

I didn't realise that a degree certificate was a sign of education, but ok.

But you throwing around the use of 'uneducated' comes across as derogatory to those that may not share your point of view.

I feel that religion is a major source of world conflict.

My personal opinion, end of.

 

[Lanie]

I come from northern ireland where guess what religion is a big factor in our issues.

I grew up in a very political household and grew up around people with some very ( now considered old fashioned religious views of the other side)

I have always remained neutral as i dont consider myself religious but i have always talked at length to my friends from both sides of the park and guess what there views on northern Ireland conflict always comeback to religion. Therefore its not always ego.

When you are told from a young age not to tell people what religion you are incase they are from the other side and perhaps unsavoury you soon learn that religion is an issue.

 

[rosewinner]

I come from northern ireland where guess what religion is a big factor in our issues.

I grew up in a very political household and grew up around people with some very ( now considered old fashioned religious views of the other side)

I have always remained neutral as i dont consider myself religious but i have always talked at length to my friends from both sides of the park and guess what there views on northern Ireland conflict always comeback to religion. Therefore its not always ego

Funny you say that. I've been living in Belfast for the last couple of years as I ended up staying during Covid. I had lots of conversations about the Troubles and the consensus of many academics I spoke to who had studied the conflict say that the religious and tribal stuff was just a convenient cover for criminality and drug-running of rival factions.

The press tell you it's about religion and yet Protestants and Catholics have lived together in many countries perfectly fine. That means religion is not the variable.

 

[Stillwater]

Why would there be World War? Haven’t they got what they wanted. Or about punishment and invading now?

The woke comments and face full of cleavage comment are….”interesting”?

 

[mcfeez]

I think there are potentially two discussions going on here; religion or religious ideas have been cited as the reason for certain individuals or groups committing acts of violence or hatred however that is not the same as a war or military conflict.

 

[Lanie]

Funny you say that. I've been living in Belfast for the last couple of years as I ended up staying during Covid. I had lots of conversations about the Troubles and the consensus of many academics I spoke to who had studied the conflict say that the religious and tribal stuff was just a convenient cover for criminality and drug-running of rival factions.

The press tell you it's about religion and yet Protestants and Catholics have lived together in many countries perfectly fine. That means religion is not the variable.

You dont seem to understand of what you are talking. I have actually lived it. Ive seen what happens when your from the wrong side in the wrong place.

I agree in later years its became a drug thing, but up until the 1990s it was very much religion.

Also please dont tell someone who was actually born and lived in a country divided by religion they dont know what they are talking about. Its insulting. You may have lived there in peacetime, i have lived here all my life.

 

[mcfeez]

Funny you say that. I've been living in Belfast for the last couple of years as I ended up staying during Covid. I had lots of conversations about the Troubles and the consensus of many academics I spoke to who had studied the conflict say that the religious and tribal stuff was just a convenient cover for criminality and drug-running of rival factions.

The press tell you it's about religion and yet Protestants and Catholics have lived together in many countries perfectly fine. That means religion is not the variable.

I'd argue this is an explanation for more of the modern issues in N.Ireland. The conflict in Northern Ireland has a religious element and an important one however it does go a lot deeper than that.

 

[rosewinner]

You dont seem to understand of what you are talking. I have actually lived it. Ive seen what happens when your from the wrong side in the wrong place.

I agree in later years its became a drug thing, but up until the 1990s it was very much religion.

I've never understood the 'I've lived it' argument. Somebody the other day was telling me he had lived homelessness and therefore I must believe and trust his policy ideas on addressing the issue. That struck me as bizarre.

Let's take several sets of people.

In the first set you have Protestants and Catholics who hate one another because of their faith.

In the second set you have Protestants and Catholics who get along very well because of the similarities of their faith.

The problem then isn't the faith, but the ego-nature of the people involved.

 

[Notworthy]

I hear this argument so often from every second Bob and Steve dawwwn da pub.

Religion has never caused war, land has never caused wars, resources have never caused wars. It's human ego that causes war.

There is no evidence that any apparently religion-based wars were actually about religion and not about resources or land or something else.

The world would be a degenerate place without spiritual values. The British Empire and European Enlightenment were founded on a solid bed of Christianity. Our legal systems, great works of art and architecture, our moral civilisation, grew from a religious soil.

Err religion has always been about power and control, just because you view it as benign now doesn't mean it's roots aren't based control.

 

[rosewinner]

I'd argue this is an explanation for more of the modern issues in N.Ireland. The conflict in Northern Ireland has a religious element and an important one however it does go a lot deeper than that.

Fair enough, I concede that. But let's rewind to the 80s and much of it was about the different perspectives of British occupation, not so much about the religion itself.

As I said, causality is complex. An event is always the result of a perfect storm of variables

Err religion has always been about power and control, just because you view it as benign now doesn't mean it's roots aren't based control.

This is your prejudice and your misunderstanding of those who believe in a higher consciousness. I never really trust those who use words like 'power' and 'control' because that's a sure sign Marxist ways of thinking have got to them.

In any case, no wonder we failed in Afghanistan when we have such a secular contempt for them, their religion and their way of life.

 

[Lanie]

I've never understood the 'I've lived it' argument. Somebody the other day was telling me he had lived homelessness and therefore I must believe and trust his policy ideas on addressing the issue. That struck me as bizarre.

Let's take several sets of people.

In the first set you have Protestants and Catholics who hate one another because of their faith.

In the second set you have Protestants and Catholics who get along very well because of the similarities of their faith.

The problem then isn't the faith, but the ego-nature of the people involved.

Tell

I've never understood the 'I've lived it' argument. Somebody the other day was telling me he had lived homelessness and therefore I must believe and trust his policy ideas on addressing the issue. That struck me as bizarre.

Let's take several sets of people.

In the first set you have Protestants and Catholics who hate one another because of their faith.

In the second set you have Protestants and Catholics who get along very well because of the similarities of their faith.

The problem then isn't the faith, but the ego-nature of the people involved.

Oh ok, fair enough. You have stayed in a country for five minutes and spoke to a few people therefore you know everything about that countries history. You have not lived amongst people who have told you to stay away from certain areas because if they hear you are a protestant youre done for, you have not had family members who like you said once lived peacefully in their homes burned out because their religion was made known. You have not driven past burning cars because that persons religion has been made known.

I know nothing pet. But this was my childhood.

 

[rosewinner]

Oh ok, fair enough. You have stayed in a country for five minutes and spoke to a few people therefore you know everything about that countries history. You have not lived amongst people who have told you to stay away from certain areas because if they hear you are a protestant youre done for, you have not had family members who like you said once lived peacefully in their homes burned out because their religion was made known. You have not driven past burning cars because that persons religion has been made known.

I know nothing pet. But this was my childhood.

So you didn't actually live through the troubles then.

In any case there is so much of this argumentation lately, an appeal to emotion and sympathy without an actual discussion of the facts involved. BLM really popularised this kind of manipulative rhetoric last summer.

Facts make policy decisions, not emotions. Your religious hatred is not any kind of objective truth. There are plenty of places in Scotland you'll get beaten up if you support the wrong football team, or parts of Compton where you'll get shot if you are in a red car. Religion doesn't factor in those similar situations at all.

Good luck getting Afghanistan on board with this kind of attitude to their religion.

 

[Lanie]

So you didn't actually live through the troubles then.

In any case there is so much of this argumentation lately, an appeal to emotion and sympathy without an actual discussion of the facts involved. BLM really popularised this kind of manipulative rhetoric last summer.

Facts make policy decisions, not emotions.

Yes i did. I grew up during alot of the bombings actually.

This was during the troubles.

 

[rosewinner]

Yes i did. I grew up during alot of the bombings actually.

And so did I in London where we couldn't have bins in public places for years because of the IRA. What's your point?

 

[Lanie]

And so did I in London where we couldn't have bins in public places for years because of the IRA. What's your point?

I have made no point petal. I just answered your question. I have no point to make to the likes of you.

You seem to think your opinion is the only one that matters. So i will leave you to your ignorance. I was merely just stating that religion is a big factor in our issues and i know this for a fact.