2020 US Election - Trump vs Biden

[openbook1]

Total trainwreck aside, I don't think that first debate helped convince anyone whose on the fence. Both candidates appealed firmly to their core, and their performance during the debate was basically what we all expected (belligerent Trump & exasperated, slightly confused Biden).

I thought what was interesting/scary was that:

• Trump didn't commit to a peaceful transfer of power - instead, he talked a lot about election fraud, how it could take "months" to sort out the mail-in ballots situation, and told his supporters to keep an eye on their local polling stations, which is a bit scary. He's basically informing us that if he loses, he's not gonna step down easily.
• That "Stand Back and Stand By" comment was extremely vague, and the Proud Boys are now thrilled and taking it as a marching order. The way he structured that comment also made it sound like the PBs are a potential solution to ANTIFA...very concerning comment from a Presidential candidate.

I barely heard any policy or actual facts/numbers from either candidate - they spent most of it shouting at and insulting each other. Worst presidential debate in a long time.

I don't think Biden is confused per se. Trump was RAMBLING over him, like a child, "lalalalalalaa", that would throw anyone off what they were trying to talk about. It is a distraction tactic by Trump, he knows what he is doing. Biden also has a stutter.

If Biden wins, Trump will refuse to leave the WH. Democracy is gone in the USA. Telling people to "keep an eye" on polling stations is provoking voter intimidation. I will not be surprised if people are murdered at the polls by white supremacists.

I do think Biden tried his best. I couldn't imagine "debating" that absolute clown.

I have actually seen some Trump supporters say that he lost them on this debate... he went "too far" by not denouncing white supremacists. Well, it is sad that it took them so long to realise.

 

[totallytaz]

Never heard of the Proud Boys until today. Who are they, what do they stand for? Are they a terrorist organization, a group on par with the KKK, a handful of blokes who are fed up of being forced to take the knee and seeing their town being burned to the ground or what?

 

[openbook1]

Never heard of the Proud Boys until today. Who are they, what do they stand for? Are they a terrorist organization, a group on par with the KKK, a handful of blokes who are fed up of being forced to take the knee and seeing their town being burned to the ground or what?

The FBI classes them as an extremist group so like the KKK. They were actually founded by a Canadian-Brit...

"The group believes men—especially white men—and Western culture are under siege; their views have elements of the white genocide conspiracy theory.."

Proud Boys and antifa - who are they and what do they want?

A guide to the fringe movements that became a debate flash point.

www.bbc.com

 

[openbook1]

Thank you.

No problem. There are a lot of articles today explaining who they are.

 

[RachyWoo]

Trump is vile, always has been and his performance last night has made me disgusted even more than I already was. I'll never understand how anyone can vote for that creature! I have a few American friends and they turned the debate off because of his disgusting mentality!

I tell you what though, I cannot wait for Bad Lip Reading to upload the debate onto YouTube His ones from Trump V Clinton were great, and the Trump inauguration was hilarious!!

 

[svdwoodsen]

Never heard of the Proud Boys until today. Who are they, what do they stand for? Are they a terrorist organization, a group on par with the KKK, a handful of blokes who are fed up of being forced to take the knee and seeing their town being burned to the ground or what?

They're definitely controversial but I haven't quite figured out what they're supposed to be. They insist that they're not a white nationalist group, but some of their actions suggest otherwise. I would say they're probably on par with a radical far-left protestor/violent ANTIFA people, and less extreme than KKK. Their "chairman" is actually Cuban-American.

I don't think Biden is confused per se. Trump was RAMBLING over him, like a child, "lalalalalalaa", that would throw anyone off what they were trying to talk about. It is a distraction tactic by Trump, he knows what he is doing. Biden also has a stutter.

If Biden wins, Trump will refuse to leave the WH. Democracy is gone in the USA. Telling people to "keep an eye" on polling stations is provoking voter intimidation. I will not be surprised if people are murdered at the polls by white supremacists.

I do think Biden tried his best. I couldn't imagine "debating" that absolute clown.

I have actually seen some Trump supporters say that he lost them on this debate... he went "too far" by not denouncing white supremacists. Well, it is sad that it took them so long to realise.

I understand it's basically impossible to talk over Trump or shut him up because that's just how he is, but I do think Biden should've been more firm/shown more energy. The stutter didn't help his case. It's not his fault of course, especially if it's a childhood habit, but definitely something for him to improve on during the next two debates. If he lets Trump talk over him constantly, he won't be able to get his messages across. I could barely hear anything he said yesterday. With Trump, you have to drop your usual manners and be aggressive.

 

[openbook1]

They're definitely controversial but I haven't quite figured out what they're supposed to be. They insist that they're not a white nationalist group, but some of their actions suggest otherwise. I would say they're probably on par with a radical far-left protestor/violent ANTIFA people, and less extreme than KKK. Their "chairman" is actually Cuban-American.


I understand it's basically impossible to talk over Trump or shut him up because that's just how he is, but I do think Biden should've been more firm/shown more energy. The stutter didn't help his case. It's not his fault of course, especially if it's a childhood habit, but definitely something for him to improve on during the next two debates. If he lets Trump talk over him constantly, he won't be able to get his messages across. I could barely hear anything he said yesterday. With Trump, you have to drop your usual manners and be aggressive.

They need to mute the mic of those not talking. Trump is a bull.

 

[svdwoodsen]

They need to mute the mic of those not talking. Trump is a bull.

They should just do the next two debates on Zoom and have the moderator mute the other person when they're not speaking.

 

[Pambo]

I predict a lot of violence if the vote doesn’t go his way.

Maybe, but going by the last four years I guarantee more violence if the vote does go his way. Either way I condemn it. However, I think you could walk down the street wearing a hat supporting Biden without fear, but I wouldn't like to try it for Trump.

That's all coming from the side that likes to think it's the "tolerant" one.

 

[totallytaz]

Maybe, but going by the last four years I guarantee more violence if the vote does go his way. Either way I condemn it. However, I think you could walk down the street wearing a hat supporting Biden without fear, but I wouldn't like to try it for Trump.

That's all coming from the side that likes to think it's the "tolerant" one.

Violence in abundance is going on under people’s noses right now and no one seems phased by it.

 

[Pambo]

They're definitely controversial but I haven't quite figured out what they're supposed to be. They insist that they're not a white nationalist group, but some of their actions suggest otherwise. I would say they're probably on par with a radical far-left protestor/violent ANTIFA people, and less extreme than KKK. Their "chairman" is actually Cuban-American.

I think they came about as a reaction to Antifa. I don't doubt they've got some unsavoury characters in their ranks, any group willing to indulge in political violence is hardly going to be stocked with choirboys, but their biggest PR problem is supporting Trump. For that alone it's going to be hard to find any MSM report on the group that doesn't brand them far-right extremists. Maybe they are, but the same MSM using the Proud Boys to bludgeon Trump with, have sung the praises of Antifa in the past. Even Democrats have. So Trump mentioning PBs was dumb.

 

[svdwoodsen]

I think a major issue with a lot of Dems, particularly the liberal elite, is that they are hypocrites. They claim to champion social safety nets, affordable healthcare, support for minorities/LGBTQ, equal access to quality education, etc. but you can bet that if welfare recipients or Blacks/Hispanics moved into their neighborhoods en masse, they would complain (behind people's backs, of course) and leave and they all send their kids to the best privates schools that money can buy and go to the best hospitals when their families get sick.

It's hard to not be cynical about a group of people who champion one idea in public, but do the opposite in their private lives.

A lot of Republicans have morally questionable opinions but they do seem to more consistent across the board in terms of the alignment of their beliefs and actions (generally speaking...).

 

[hnoz]

I think they came about as a reaction to Antifa. I don't doubt they've got some unsavoury characters in their ranks, any group willing to indulge in political violence is hardly going to be stocked with choirboys, but their biggest PR problem is supporting Trump. For that alone it's going to be hard to find any MSM report on the group that doesn't brand them far-right extremists. Maybe they are, but the same MSM using the Proud Boys to bludgeon Trump with, have sung the praises of Antifa in the past. Even Democrats have. So Trump mentioning PBs was dumb.

It is quite dismissive to imply only the mainstream media are suggesting the proud boys as extremists, as though it is therefore invalid, when the FBI classifies them as far right extremists.

 

[or JusRollWithIt]

He was asked, point blank, if he denounced white supremacy. He did not. He incited them to stand by. He told the citizens of a democratic country to “poll watch” which as @openbook1 said is not allowed to say as the president.

One commentator on the debate said “don’t listen to what I say as an expert, listen to what Trump says.” It is all there, no need or room for interpretation, he is very direct.

 

[Pambo]

It is quite dismissive to imply only the mainstream media are suggesting the proud boys as extremists, as though it is therefore invalid, when the FBI classifies them as far right extremists.

It was mainstream media who reported that the FBI classified the Proud Boys as far right extremists when the FBI later said they didn't.

That's what I mean. That the FBI considers certain individuals in the group as extremists is concerning (to say the least), and I'm happy to agree on that.

But the MSM can't just chop it off there, and serve up a report of what was actually said, they've got to add arms & legs to it.

They do that with Trump all the time. There's plenty of ammo in just reporting what he says without adding, mis-representing, omitting or implying.

 

[totallytaz]

Circus theatrics and childish behaviour aside... What Trump said about Proud Boys to “stand back and stand by” sent chills. Pretty much marching orders. Terrified me when I heard him say it. I predict a lot of violence if the vote doesn’t go his way.

Proud Boys celebrate after Trump's debate callout

On their account on the social media app Telegram, the Proud Boys appeared to take the statement as marching orders.

www.nbcnews.com

I assume you are already living your life in fear, what with the current relentless looting, shooting, arson attacks and intimidation, be that orders to raise the fist on camera or be bashed over the head, or pay monthly protection money or else.

Which state are you in? Is the violence on your doorstep?

 

[or JusRollWithIt]

..

I assume you are already living your life in fear, what with the current relentless looting, shooting, arson attacks and intimidation, be that orders to raise the fist on camera or be bashed over the head, or pay monthly protection money or else.

Which state are you in? Is the violence on your doorstep?

Did I give that impression? I’m sorry. It unsettled me. I no longer live in the US, I’m in Canada. It’s still too close to home and I have loved ones in the US who are living this every day.

 

[TheDevil'Son]

As I predicted, Trump embarrassed himself, refusing to allow Biden to speak, interrupting him, not even giving him a chance to respond. Trump is what I call a man child. The Proud Boys are celebrating Trump's words, pretty much gave them the go-ahead. Also, Trump was asked to condemn a white supremacist group, and he didn't.

 

[Pambo]

Also, Trump was asked to condemn a white supremacist group, and he didn't.

That was dumb of him, and he could've saved himself a lot of headaches if he just shot back with an unequivocal condemnation. However, in fairness, Trump has condemned white supremacists in the past, and the racist charge wasn't something levelled at him prior to getting into politics.

Does he know who the Proud Boys are? No idea. The question was loaded anyway, asking if he'd tell them to stand down as if they're his private army to direct, so he was always on a hiding to nothing by falling for that. His reply, to be generous, could just be his usual fluffing it - "stand back and stand by" - and is ambiguous. It is also easily spun into something more sinister.

But that's politics, and he walked right into it and brought the shitstorm on himself.

 

[totallytaz]

I thought by “stand back and stand by”, he meant, don’t get involved, just watch.

Did Wallace put the current violence and ANTIFA to Biden? What was his response? It’s known the Kamala Harris backs it, but how about Biden?