WASPI Women

[Happy Lady]

I understand that as life expectancy increased, it was no longer feasible for the government to fund people to retire at 60. For the average woman, that's almost 30 years of life they'd be receiving a State Pension. HOWEVER - life expectancy in the UK is now declining in some regions. Will the government roll back the State Pension age to reflect this? I won't hold my breath!

As an aside, I'm not really sure how the State Pension was ever thought to be sustainable - isn't it just a giant Ponzi scheme?! The State Pension of current retirees is funded by the National Insurance contributions of working people, so if Bob claims State Pension, Sally, Pete and Anne have to pay for it through their taxes. When Sally, Pete and Anne retire, they will each need 3 working people (or however many) to fund their State Pensions, and so on it goes. Maybe someone who understands it a bit more than me can put me right on this, but I don't get how it's meant to work unless the population continues to increase infinitely.

I know where you're coming from @zoominmoom and what I'm thinking is that if A contributed then their "pot" should be safe to pay them their pension.

However, it seems that "X, Y and Z" are now contributing, therefore "A" is only able to receive a proportion of their pot, as older people have been paid from 'A", "A" is now relying on "X, Y and Z" to support them.

Sounds ridiculous and impossible to explain, but if you understand what I'm trying to explain then you'll understand the frustration that WASPI women are going through.

 

[zoominmoom]

I know where you're coming from @zoominmoom and what I'm thinking is that if A contributed then their "pot" should be safe to pay them their pension.

However, it seems that "X, Y and Z" are now contributing, therefore "A" is only able to receive a proportion of their pot, as older people have been paid from 'A", "A" is now relying on "X, Y and Z" to support them.

Sounds ridiculous and impossible to explain, but if you understand what I'm trying to explain then you'll understand the frustration that WASPI women are going through.

I think you're right - when A (or indeed any WASPI woman to make it relevant to thread!) was contributing all those years, their contributions were funding someone a couple of generations older who had already retired, so in effect they were not building up their own pot, just paying for someone else who was already retired. I would much rather we all contributed to our own 'pots' with National Insurance so we could guarantee we'd have something in future. I know that's what private pensions are meant to be but guess what, I can't afford a bloody private pension because of all the tax and NI I have to pay!

 

[Happy Lady]

WASPI women want State Pension battle against DWP turned into new ITV drama

The campaigners say one woman is dying every 13 minutes as they wait for compensation after an eight-year fight for justice

www.birminghammail.co.uk

Oh yes please. I think this is a great idea.

 

[Happy Lady]

New calls for urgent State Pension age compensation plan for WASPI women

It has also been suggested that compensation of £10,000 or more would be the most appropriate for 3.8m women.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

An update for anyone interested.

 

[Curiouscupcake]

New calls for urgent State Pension age compensation plan for WASPI women

It has also been suggested that compensation of £10,000 or more would be the most appropriate for 3.8m women.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

An update for anyone interested.

Where would the compensation come from though? Surely it’ll just take away even more money from the pensions and make the situation even worse?

Currently I’m only paying about £10pm to my private pension so I best get that increased. Also I guess thinking longer term, start planning to get the mortgage paid off earlier so we have less living costs,

 

[Happy Lady]

Where would the compensation come from though? Surely it’ll just take away even more money from the pensions and make the situation even worse?

Currently I’m only paying about £10pm to my private pension so I best get that increased. Also I guess thinking longer term, start planning to get the mortgage paid off earlier so we have less living costs,

This money is not compensation. It's part of what we're rightfully due. I had over £40k lost/unpaid, other ladies had more. This is my opinion and I am aware that not everyone agrees, especially those born after 1960. If our Government can find money to pay illegal immigrants then they need to look after their own too.

 

[Glaschelle]

I'm 58, and even 20yrs ago we knew we wouldn't be retiring at 60. We knew it was going to rise to equal the male retirement age of 65.

What we didn't realise was what the age was going to increase!!! I should retire at 67 - nearly 10yrs but my knees are goosed, my memory is terrible and I'm caring for my 87yr old mum and working full time. Most days I feel I won't make it through the night.

The last person to retire in my workplace at 65 was a man - the next 2 were women. One of them missed it by 2 days - she needed to wait a month till she could retire. 3 months after retiring she was diagnosed with cancer and died a short time later. It's terrible what's happened to women

 

[Yel]

As an aside, I'm not really sure how the State Pension was ever thought to be sustainable - isn't it just a giant Ponzi scheme?!

I think like many things they know the whole thing will collapse at some point, but they aim to keep the plates in the air while they can and let someone else later down the line deal with it.

I think Italy has the worst problems with their aging population and not the demographic at the bottom to support it.

In France there are still regular protests to return it to 60 for everyone. Not that it'll make any difference as there was 3 working people to support each pensioner, now it's 1.6 and getting lower each year.

Spare a thought for all the millennials and people below them who won't just get a year or two less than the people older than them - they're likely to get nothing as the state pension returns to what it was set up to be. A small payment for those living above the average to stop them starving to death.

Retirement for the masses was an abnormal blip.

 

[Curiouscupcake]

This money is not compensation. It's part of what we're rightfully due. I had over £40k lost/unpaid, other ladies had more. This is my opinion and I am aware that not everyone agrees, especially those born after 1960. If our Government can find money to pay illegal immigrants then they need to look after their own too.

I was simply using the terminology from the linked article.

 

[Happy Lady]

I was simply using the terminology from the linked article.

Yes, I know you were

Women of my age are so frustrated at the long wait for "justice".

I agree with your post that by starting to put money into a pension pot as soon as you can, and as much as you can is a great thing to do to prepare a private or company pension with as much money as possible. Speaking to a financial advisor to discuss your own personal circumstances is the best way forward, as they can tell you so much and may be able to "find" money for you.

I don't know your age or whether you're currently working, but this may help you.

Scenario 1: You’re not working, or on a low income
If you’re earning less than £3,600, or you’re a non-earner, you might be surprised to learn that you can still pay in up to £2,880 each tax year and the government will automatically add up to £720 (20% tax relief) on top.

It might not sound a lot but it all adds up. Let’s say you start saving the full amount when you’re 60. You’d have an extra £10,800 from the government by your 75th birthday.

That’s essentially free money, which you can access yourself or even pass on to your loved ones.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I'm 58, and even 20yrs ago we knew we wouldn't be retiring at 60. We knew it was going to rise to equal the male retirement age of 65.

What we didn't realise was what the age was going to increase!!! I should retire at 67 - nearly 10yrs but my knees are goosed, my memory is terrible and I'm caring for my 87yr old mum and working full time. Most days I feel I won't make it through the night.

The last person to retire in my workplace at 65 was a man - the next 2 were women. One of them missed it by 2 days - she needed to wait a month till she could retire. 3 months after retiring she was diagnosed with cancer and died a short time later. It's terrible what's happened to women

I think this articulates the genuine fear of a lot of people who whom aging is more of a reality (I’m 45 and will admit it’s only bedded in recently)
We live longer but we are not, as a population healthier. How can people work in the same way they do at 30 until death? Some lucky people will (some do now!) others will spent 30 years claiming disability benefit rather than state pension.

I do think the level of understanding people have of taxation is woeful I’m afraid, as someone said above there was never a savings pot for you. It’s just tax.
Even if the women win this battle - which is significant for them- it’s insignificant because the population is declining and there are fewer people to pay tax (that’s why we need those pesky immigrants @Happylady )
in terms of what people can do now, I don’t think it can be sugarcoated. I think we have to be honest and say yes a private pension is the answer. But if you’re like a previous poster who pays in £10 a month, that’s not a pension. It won’t even cover your council tax in retirement. The stark reality is workplace pension will work for high earners or those in excellent pensions (teaching, NHs) but they don’t create a decent income unless you put ALOT in

 

[Curiouscupcake]

I only pay £10 in a month as I’ve just changed jobs and need the income, so went with the minimum once I get more hours I’ll definitely be increasing it! Ive always paid more into it previously.

 

[zoominmoom]

I think this articulates the genuine fear of a lot of people who whom aging is more of a reality (I’m 45 and will admit it’s only bedded in recently)
We live longer but we are not, as a population healthier. How can people work in the same way they do at 30 until death? Some lucky people will (some do now!) others will spent 30 years claiming disability benefit rather than state pension.

I do think the level of understanding people have of taxation is woeful I’m afraid, as someone said above there was never a savings pot for you. It’s just tax.
Even if the women win this battle - which is significant for them- it’s insignificant because the population is declining and there are fewer people to pay tax (that’s why we need those pesky immigrants @Happylady )
in terms of what people can do now, I don’t think it can be sugarcoated. I think we have to be honest and say yes a private pension is the answer. But if you’re like a previous poster who pays in £10 a month, that’s not a pension. It won’t even cover your council tax in retirement. The stark reality is workplace pension will work for high earners or those in excellent pensions (teaching, NHs) but they don’t create a decent income unless you put ALOT in

Won't we need to keep encouraging more and more immigration to pay for those immigrant's pensions once they retire, though? This is what I mean about it being a Ponzi scheme. You always need multiple people to support one retired person, but those multiple people go on to retire themselves! Regardless of whether it's achieved through immigration or people just having kids, the current system only works if the population can grow to infinity.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

Won't we need to keep encouraging more and more immigration to pay for those immigrant's pensions once they retire, though? This is what I mean about it being a Ponzi scheme. You always need multiple people to support one retired person, but those multiple people go on to retire themselves! Regardless of whether it's achieved through immigration or people just having kids, the current system only works if the population can grow to infinity.

yes, you’re def right but, don’t forget we’re supporting baby boomers at the moment, the biggest generation in existence. Other generations are smaller and wil need less money to support them. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s a Ponzi scheme (although as above, it’s not really, because you’re just paying tax and the government spends it however they see fit)

also immigrants often don’t stay in the uk for the rest of their life. They might just work and pay tax for a few years or a few decades, then go off somewhere else.

 

[Yel]

The data does say a thousand things. In the US and UK there's not a huge bulge of boomers, it's more that a huge amount of people are now living way way longer.

Then you look at Italy and see why they're often regarded as the country with the biggest problem.

Looking at Afghanistan that's a demographic where the current state pension system is feasible in. That's probably not a million miles away from the demographics when these state pensions were set up.

Even though life expectancy is decreasing they won't be reducing the age of the state pension because they never increased it like they should of done many decades ago when life expectancy increased.

 

[Happy Lady]

Waspi women could see compensation of £10k under new bill

An MP has put forward a bill calling for a compensation scheme for women born in the 1950s affected by the rise in state pension age.

www.ftadviser.com

This article is very promising as yet another MP shows their support towards WASPI women. Hopefully a decision can be reached in April.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

This money is not compensation. It's part of what we're rightfully due. I had over £40k lost/unpaid, other ladies had more. This is my opinion and I am aware that not everyone agrees, especially those born after 1960. If our Government can find money to pay illegal immigrants then they need to look after their own too.

I don’t really understand this thinking. How do you know what you paid in and what it translates to as pension?

State pension is what, £800 a month?

I pay £2k a month into my private pension, and it’s not likely to pay out much more than that. That’s the amount you have pay in to build up to roughly £800 a month. How can everyone claim they are due that because they paid it in tax?
They didn’t. They never paid enough in to get £800 a month from 60 years old to death.

 

[Happy Lady]

I don’t really understand this thinking. How do you know what you paid in and what it translates to as pension?

State pension is what, £800 a month?

I pay £2k a month into my private pension, and it’s not likely to pay out much more than that. That’s the amount you have pay in to build up to roughly £800 a month. How can everyone claim they are due that because they paid it in tax?
They didn’t. They never paid enough in to get £800 a month from 60 years old to death.

Thank you for your response @Eltonjohnsflorist. The way it's been calculated is simply by adding together pension payments that we would/should have received from the age of 60 until the day we were able to receive them. I was born in 1956 and therefore missed out on over £40k.

I don't know how the £10k has been arrived at that is being quoted, but there will be over three million very happy ladies if they do receive this amount, albeit minus tax.

 

[Happy Lady]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-68624420

WASPI women must be awarded compensation after DWP blunder, report finds

A long-awaited report by the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman follows years of campaigning by WASPI women after the pension age was unexpectedly raised

www.mirror.co.uk

So today it was announced that the Ombudsman has agreed that WASPI women were unfairly treated and should receive compensation. This has now been referred to Parliament for the government to decide in the amount. The Ombudsman suggested this was Level 4 which would only give between £1k and £3k. WASPI were hoping it would be Level 6 that would give £10k or over.

Listening to the Chair of WASPI talking on Sky News today, she is happy that this has now been forwarded to the right place for discussion, but will continue to campaign for Level 6 payouts.

So it is now up to Rishi and Keir to decide what to pay, however the DWP state that they did nothing wrong and will refuse to pay!

Waspi women demand Labour commits to ‘long overdue’ compensation in manifesto

Pension campaigners say election promise would be a ‘vote winner’ with 3.6 million women

inews.co.uk

Ahead of the last general election, the Labour Party led by Jeremy Corbyn promised £58bn for affected women – with average payments of £15,000, and maximum payments of £31,000 for those worst affected.

Former shadow chancellor John McDonnell urged Sir Keir to come up with a similar policy this year before voters go to the polls.

 

[rubyred66]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-68624420

WASPI women must be awarded compensation after DWP blunder, report finds

A long-awaited report by the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman follows years of campaigning by WASPI women after the pension age was unexpectedly raised

www.mirror.co.uk

So today it was announced that the Ombudsman has agreed that WASPI women were unfairly treated and should receive compensation. This has now been referred to Parliament for the government to decide in the amount. The Ombudsman suggested this was Level 4 which would only give between £1k and £3k. WASPI were hoping it would be Level 6 that would give £10k or over.

Listening to the Chair of WASPI talking on Sky News today, she is happy that this has now been forwarded to the right place for discussion, but will continue to campaign for Level 6 payouts.

So it is now up to Rishi and Keir to decide what to pay, however the DWP state that they did nothing wrong and will refuse to pay!

Waspi women demand Labour commits to ‘long overdue’ compensation in manifesto

Pension campaigners say election promise would be a ‘vote winner’ with 3.6 million women

inews.co.uk

Ahead of the last general election, the Labour Party led by Jeremy Corbyn promised £58bn for affected women – with average payments of £15,000, and maximum payments of £31,000 for those worst affected.

Former shadow chancellor John McDonnell urged Sir Keir to come up with a similar policy this year before voters go to the polls.

I was going to share an update on this too, I accidentally posted it to another thread I’m following. Good news it seems