UK Politics & Brexit

[non binary coat]

I think it's easy to say uncontrolled mass immigration doesn't affect jobs if your job hasn't been affected.

Certain jobs the rate fell through the floor once EE migrants were allowed in. It flooded the market with cheaper labor and when you're a single man living in a shared house you can charge a lot less than a man bringing up a family. I don't blame the EE people for moving here to improve their life, but like france and germany we should have delayed the free movement when the EU was enlarged so it wasn't so dramatic. But people like tony blare only cared about the rich people in society that did benefit from huge amounts of migrant labor to suppress wages.

It's selfish to drain the young and educated people from other nations and doesn;'t help their own countries. We should invest in people over here rather than be dependent on a brain drain.

Labour were the ones that started selling off the NHS and put huge debt on hospitals with their PPI contracts that will take decades to pay back. Lovley new hospitals, but they don';t have the money for correct staffing, equipment or drugs so whats the point.

 

[Meh]

In Scotland so I’ll be voting SNP on Thursday.

Many reasons why (and no, not because I “hate the English” or “have a chip on my shoulder” or anything like that!) I believe we have to vote for the party whose policies and actions marry with our personal belief/value set and for me it’s SNP or Labour.

Labour? I do wish I could vote Labour as I do like Corbyn, however, in Scotland Labour are completely finished. There’s so much anger toward them.

Lib Dem? Well, let’s say I hope we see Jo Swinson’s demise on Friday and their party can perhaps move on towards a positive future.

Brexit party? NOPE for me.

Tory? How anyone can trust them I’ll never know.

Regardless of who we vote for, what our beliefs and priorities are, the most important thing is that all of us, who can, go out and vote come Thursday.

 

[Horatio]

I think it's easy to say uncontrolled mass immigration doesn't affect jobs if your job hasn't been affected.

Certain jobs the rate fell through the floor once EE migrants were allowed in. It flooded the market with cheaper labor and when you're a single man living in a shared house you can charge a lot less than a man bringing up a family. I don't blame the EE people for moving here to improve their life, but like france and germany we should have delayed the free movement when the EU was enlarged so it wasn't so dramatic. But people like tony blare only cared about the rich people in society that did benefit from huge amounts of migrant labor to suppress wages.

It's selfish to drain the young and educated people from other nations and doesn;'t help their own countries. We should invest in people over here rather than be dependent on a brain drain.

Labour were the ones that started selling off the NHS and put huge debt on hospitals with their PPI contracts that will take decades to pay back. Lovley new hospitals, but they don';t have the money for correct staffing, equipment or drugs so whats the point.

This defeatist attitude of blaming the poor has been pushed so hard by the tories it does sometimes feel true. But surely employers should be properly regulated so they can’t get away with exploiting workers, rather than blaming the workers who will take the rate. It’s disgusting to pay people so little just because you can. It’s not impossible to imagine a market of more compassionate capitalism. The models exist - ikea I think has a rule where the ceo can only earn a certain amount more than the lowest paid member of staff. But that will never happen under the tories who are so well funded by the people who have benefited from this sort of thing the most.
Same with hospitals. There is money. 9 years of austerity have conditioned us to accept such low standards. And of course problems in the NHS or any public service stretch back as far you can look, but overall, in living memory, things were different. When I was a kid there was money to five give child support to every parent regardless of income and a reasonable and fair welfare system for those who needed it to
When I was in sixth form there was money to give me £30 a week and a £100 bonus each holiday in EMA
When I was at university there was money for a full non repayable maintenance grant of several grand each year. And for my friends studying nursing, to have their whole degree and living expense paid for.

None of these things exist anymore and they are the very tip of the iceberg. I know It all sounds a little arbitrary. But this was all money designed to pay back the system in the long term. It wasn’t the cause of the recession - as if the money the government spent on EMA could even scratch the surface of the trillion dollar debts created by those empty mortgages. Cutting it makes next to no difference for that side but means everything to the person who lost it. Same nurses grants. Same the entire flawed policy of austerity.

And these examples are only a small sample from my very privileged life. It’s nothing compared to the tit show of universal credit. This twitter thread is much better than I am at giving a sense of how’s its so unfairly designed - might even have seen it first here ? Worth posting again anyway
I strongly urge anyone to read it. Because it hit home for me that people are dieing because of this. I’m not one to make statements like that lightly I assure you.

 

[Mercedes12]

Another really informative thread:



I've gotten a lot of info from twitter this election as newspapers are so bias

 

[kadykal95]

We were told our country would go into instant recession the second the vote was announced if we chose leave. It didn’t happen. Leaving the single market gives us a chance to do trade deals with other places. It could be a disaster. It could equally be revolutionary. If you always do what you always did you always get what you always got. This country needs change.

If labour get into power the rich will scarper this country. They’re rich enough to just leave. Then he won’t get his much needed extra tax to pay for all the promises he’s made.

How can ALL the rich just leave the country? That is laughable. It's scaremongering.

The UK is one of the lowest places for tax so where will they go exactly?

and anyway if they aren't paying tax anyway, why do we even want them to stay??

 

[Sln2404]

How can ALL the rich just leave the country? That is laughable. It's scaremongering.

The UK is one of the lowest places for tax so where will they go exactly?

and anyway if they aren't paying tax anyway, why do we even want them to stay??

They do pay tax, lots of it. That’s how everything in this country is funded. But try and tax them an extortionate amount and they will find a way of paying no tax whatsoever then who’s going to pay for all these crackpot labour promises?

 

[imaginedragon83]

It's really depressing how ininformed most Brits are about the NHS. Kinda understandable if you've never had any experience of other health care systems and how much it's politicised.

It could be so much better and literally save lives but people refuse to accept changes to an outdated system that's failing.

I really don't want to get old in the UK because the heath care system is so second rate.

I think we need to have a system more in line with Irelands

Healthcare in the Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yes the immigration argument is a total red herring. Being in the EU allows freedom of movement for economic migrants, and many come to work here in jobs like picking fruit in summer, or as hospital porters. Both jobs are actually hugely under manned especially since 2016 -funny how few of those Brits worried about their jobs being stolen have stepped in to clean toilets in their local a&e.
The economic migrants are mainly from Eastern Europe and come here to work, not claim benefits. They also bear little resemblance to what Nigel Farage was implying with his infamous ‘breaking point’ poster. Refugees/asylum seekers- lets be straight we all know that’s what was meant - have to go through huge amounts of checks to be allowed to stay, and are not allowed to work OR claim benefits. (let’s treat refugees and asylum seekers as the same for sake of argument tho there are differences ) .
So this group CANT steal benefits or jobs, and the economic migrants aren’t coming to steal benefits or jobs by their very definition.

One of many fallacies that still continues to fuel Leave arguments...

My cousin works as a HR manager for the nhs and has hundreds of jobs she cant fill for doctors and nurses that previously were mainly filled by Spanish and Portuguese graduates who viewed the nhs as a brilliant starting point for their careers. Those from here graduating as doctors and nurses are heading off to america Canada Australia etc where they are much much better paid and working in much better conditions.

I think we need to have a system more in line with Irelands

Healthcare in the Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

My cousin works as a HR manager for the nhs and has hundreds of jobs she cant fill for doctors and nurses that previously were mainly filled by Spanish and Portuguese graduates who viewed the nhs as a brilliant starting point for their careers. Those from here graduating as doctors and nurses are heading off to america Canada Australia etc where they are much much better paid and working in much better conditions.

Oh and I'll add those European graduates dont want to come here now as they are worried about the impact brexit would have eg visa requirements

 

[Caffeine Fiend]

Higher rate tax payer household here and I cannot think of any reason why we would vote Conservative on Thursday, regardless of what it would do for us personally.

To quote Irvine Welsh ‘when you’re not doing so well, vote for a better life for yourself. If you are doing quite nicely, vote for a better life for others’

This is a general election, all the red herrings thrown in, brexit, immigration matter not a jot. America has completely closed down anyone coming into the country legally, people are still coming into the country in there thousands, a wall does not stop them.

If anyone can look at the last 9 years and think it’s gone well, they have issues beyond the GE.

 

[Mercedes12]

They do pay tax, lots of it. That’s how everything in this country is funded. But try and tax them an extortionate amount and they will find a way of paying no tax whatsoever then who’s going to pay for all these crackpot labour promises?

I think the proposed tax increases are fair, these people have such excessive wealth they couldn’t possibly spend it all even if they tried so what is the point in them holding on to it?

 

[midnightrose]

I always get confused about this, but if we are voting on what political party we’d like to run the country, why are we encouraged to vote for local MPs that represent us locally.

E.g. I live in a Tory area, and our MP has been one for us for the past 9 years. I’d prefer a labour MP to address some of the local issues... because let’s face it, even if Boris was to win when it comes to local issues like planning and building housing developments, and traffic issues. I want someone else to step in because our previous MP has been poor.

I have no idea if that makes sense

 

[Barb]

Survey Unavailable | Vote for Policies

 

[Mercedes12]

I always get confused about this, but if we are voting on what political party we’d like to run the country, why are we encouraged to vote for local MPs that represent us locally.

E.g. I live in a Tory area, and our MP has been one for us for the past 9 years. I’d prefer a labour MP to address some of the local issues... because let’s face it, even if Boris was to win when it comes to local issues like planning and building housing developments, and traffic issues. I want someone else to step in because our previous MP has been poor.

I have no idea if that makes sense

How To Vote To Stop The Tories

This site shows which way you should vote to stop the Tories from getting into power again

tacticalvote.co.uk

 

[non binary coat]

This defeatist attitude of blaming the poor has been pushed so hard by the tories it does sometimes feel true. But surely employers should be properly regulated so they can’t get away with exploiting workers, rather than blaming the workers who will take the rate. It’s disgusting to pay people so little just because you can. It’s not impossible to imagine a market of more compassionate capitalism. The models exist - ikea I think has a rule where the ceo can only earn a certain amount more than the lowest paid member of staff. But that will never happen under the tories who are so well funded by the people who have benefited from this sort of thing the most.

WHy are you quoting me? I didn't blame the poor.

It's labour that gave away all the topups that allow people do get paid very little and are topped up by benefits like working tax credits and housing benefit long time. It's a terrible idea to make people long term dependent on benefits.

Somone earning 85k that's a sole earner and has a mortgage in the south east doesn't have excessive wealth. top 1% of tax payers pay 28% of tax. If you earn over 125k you don't even get a tax free allowance. High earners in jobs are the major contributors.

Is that an official labour made graphic? Looks very unprofessional and wishy. How exactly are they going to tax multinationals 30bn? It's really not that easy.

Taxing dividens at the same rate as income is stupid. You already pay 19% corp tax, then a further 7.5% tax for the first 30k taken out. It is already taxed pretty similar to income.

Is Dianne Abbot in charge of labours figures? You'd have to have next to no knowledge of economics to vote for labour. It's all cheap shots talking about rich people to tax.

I think the proposed tax increases are fair, these people have such excessive wealth they couldn’t possibly spend it all even if they tried so what is the point in them holding on to it?

View attachment 63352

 

[Demiseoftheinfluencer]

I think it’s really interesting why people choose to vote for who they do, from reading this thread it feels like we mainly vote based on fears. I don’t want to leave the EU and especially not with Boris’ deal (which will most likely lead to no deal as there’s no way he can stick to timescales) so best option for remainers is voting labour. However I’m also voting labour for hope, not just fear. Their manifesto made me feel really positive, like they’d throughly thought of all the most important issues and made a plan, you can tell it’s been Jeremys life’s work to create a manifesto like this. The way I see it is, if labour win and things don’t quite go to plan, it’s a lower risk than conservatives winning, having a no deal brexit, having a border between us and NI and Scotland wanting to leave the U.K. Also it struck me today that there is major sexism issues in the U.K. as at the last election Teresa May lost the Tory majority but Boris comes along, negotiates a worse deal and has acted generally badly and is set to win back a majority. I’m not a Teresa fan but she tried her best with that deal bless her!

 

[midnightrose]

I think it’s really interesting why people choose to vote for who they do, from reading this thread it feels like we mainly vote based on fears. I don’t want to leave the EU and especially not with Boris’ deal (which will most likely lead to no deal as there’s no way he can stick to timescales) so best option for remainers is voting labour. However I’m also voting labour for hope, not just fear. Their manifesto made me feel really positive, like they’d throughly thought of all the most important issues and made a plan, you can tell it’s been Jeremys life’s work to create a manifesto like this. The way I see it is, if labour win and things don’t quite go to plan, it’s a lower risk than conservatives winning, having a no deal brexit, having a border between us and NI and Scotland wanting to leave the U.K. Also it struck me today that there is major sexism issues in the U.K. as at the last election Teresa May lost the Tory majority but Boris comes along, negotiates a worse deal and has acted generally badly and is set to win back a majority. I’m not a Teresa fan but she tried her best with that deal bless her!

Wholeheartedly agree!

 

[non binary coat]

However I’m also voting labour for hope, not just fear. Their manifesto made me feel really positive, like they’d throughly thought of all the most important issues and made a plan, you can tell it’s been Jeremys life’s work to create a manifesto like this.

In the nicest possible way you'd have to be pretty naive to believe labors figures. They have no clue how to raise even a fraction of what they want to spend.

Have you seen the state of Venezuela?

Also it struck me today that there is major sexism issues in the U.K. as at the last election Teresa May lost the Tory majority but Boris comes along, negotiates a worse deal and has acted generally badly and is set to win back a majority. I’m not a Teresa fan but she tried her best with that deal bless her!

She was an awful leader, nothing to do with sexism.

 

[kanye]

In the nicest possible way you'd have to be pretty naive to believe labors figures. They have no clue how to raise even a fraction of what they want to spend.

Have you seen the state of Venezuela?


She was an awful leader, nothing to do with sexism.

Similarly you'd have to be pretty naive to believe the tories won't shaft the NHS, the homeless, the disabled and the poor

 

[non binary coat]

Similarly you'd have to be pretty naive to believe the tories won't shaft the NHS, the homeless, the disabled and the poor

The Tories won't touch the NHS as they'll never get in power again, it was labour that started selling it off and have done most of that.
Have you seen the state of the health service and how everyone in Venezuela is faring?
There isn't the vast amounts of borrowing and taxing that JC wants to do to fund everything without huge knock on effects.

Anyway leaving this thread, it's just going round in circles. Torys make people starve, labour feed people by taxing the rich. Oh dear if only it was like that!!

 

[kanye]

The Tories won't touch the NHS as they'll never get in power again, it was labour that started selling it off and have done most of that.
Have you seen the state of the health service and how everyone in Venezuela is faring?
There isn't the vast amounts of borrowing and taxing that JC wants to do to fund everything without huge knock on effects.

Anyway leaving this thread, it's just going round in circles. Torys make people starve, labour feed people by taxing the rich. Oh dear if only it was like that!!

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world whilst Venezuela scrapes top 10 in South America with countries like Chile and Peru ahead of it. A top 10 that includes the Dominican and Guatemala. They're not comparable.

 

[non binary coat]

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world whilst Venezuela scrapes top 10 in South America with countries like Chile and Peru ahead of it. A top 10 that includes the Dominican and Guatemala. They're not comparable.

it is now thanks partly to policies that JC praised. It used to be the richest country in south america.

Right im really leaving now.