UK General Election 2024

[Freedomofspeech89]

Whether it’s labour or conservative, it’s two cheeks of the same arse. None of these people work for the electorate.

 

[Nelly's mum]

I couldn't vote for a party whose leader thinks some women have a penis so that simplifies matters for me.
The main political parties are all shit - there should be much more choice to represent a range of views but this is not the situation voters are faced with. If you are unable to define what a woman is then how can you protect their rights?
I am a single issue voter whose primary interest is supporting the rights of 51% of the population, this is a hill I will die on.

 

[lilyannrose]

What about the rights of women and girls to have their own spaces and feel safe? It feels like such a minefield now.

 

[Blockster]

Seeing as you’re such an expert on sex and gender, how do you explain the existence and biological reality of intersex people?

You seem to think all humans fit neatly into either the male or female categories but that is far from the case, as I have just pointed out.

So should my anorexia be affirmed? I feel fat, I present as fat with the clothes I wear? Should I be allowed Ozempic or a gastric band because of my feelings? Or should I receive counselling for my disorder and get to the bottom of my body hatred. Just like those who think they are the opposite sex. Feelings are not facts.
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I agree. The relentless anti-trans rhetoric on this forum is appalling.

I also didn’t realise that there were so many delicate flowers in this country who can’t cope with the notion of sharing toilets with the “opposite sex”, or are terrified of the prospect of a unisex toilet. As if the opposite sex are an alien species

Aren’t we all just human beings needing to use the toilet? If I had my way all toilets would be private cubicles and made unisex. Then whatever sex/gender identity someone has would be an irrelevance.

To obsess over these bathroom culture wars is actually quite childish.
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What about the rights of trans women not to be attacked by men after being forced to use men’s toilets?
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Are you as bothered by the reverse then, trans men in men’s only spaces? Or do you only care about women’s spaces?

There is so much myself and other women could say about this post but I can't be bothered and if you are a real woman then shame on you.

 

[Nelly's mum]

But gay people didn't demand our spaces or change language. They just wanted to love and get on with their lives.
As for the people you know, I find it very sad they couldn't love the body they were born in and resorted to extreme measures which in the long run will have a detrimental effect on their physical health.
I actually don't care if men want to cosplay as women, go ahead but don't they dare expect me to call them he/she/they or whatever is in fashion this week.

Gay people didn't try to change language to suit their views like the pronoun they/them police.
Gay people didn't try to compel others to engage in their fantasy eg that people can change sex. No, they can't.
Gay people didn't support people mutilating their health bodies with surgery and hormones.
Gay people didn't involve children in their sexuality.
Gay people wanted equal rights not extra rights.
Gay people just wanted to be free to love a member of the same sex

 

[NeverEnough]

I was referring to intersex people in this post, but either way, comparing the trans issue to anorexia is just absurd.

No shame at all thanks. I don’t share the hive mind on this forum, sorry not sorry.

It’s not absurd at all, both are devastating dysmorphic mental issues which causes sufferers to abuse their bodies, often to the detriment of their long term health.

Any parent who encourages their children, some as young a 9, to believe that their bodies are somehow wrong, and arranges for them to cut off and remove perfectly healthy organs, is committing an act of extreme child abuse and that child should be removed immediately for it’s own protection.

The bottom line is if your child is miserable it’s statistically much more likely that your a shit parent than that your child is trans. You aren’t born into a wrong body, you are born into YOUR body which has grown from an initial union of a sperm and a ova, based on the genetic coding present in both cells. It cannot possibly be “wrong”. Your feelings or lived experience are frankly irrelevant to biology.

 

[Miss Begotten]

And that is the issue. Trans people believe that they are women, not men, or men, not women.

I could believe I’m an 25 year old Amazonian goddess. It doesn’t make it true.
Trans people can believe whatever they like. But that doesn’t mean I should be compelled to go along with their delusions.

 

[Blond3g1rl]

Time to think sensibly again ...

Growing up we pensioners either didn't have a TV or owned one small black and white one with two channels. As a youngster my annual holidays were spent in Bridlington. I was 7 before dad owned his first car. We didn't have central heating and kids walked to school. Those lucky enough had a house phone - mobiles weren't invented. I now feel that we deserve our pensions protecting to enable us to enjoy the rest of our lives.

Fast forward to today. Young people have a car, at least one large colour TV with many channels, take holidays abroad with family and/or friends; expect central heating in every room and drive their kids to school. They own a mobile each, along with a PC, laptop, tablet and/or games console. Yet, some complain about pensioners being paid their pensions.

So, I feel that pensioners deserve our pensions. Young adults will one day be grateful for theirs.

All that is missing from this for a full house in Boomer Bingo is avocados and interest rates.

 

[pommobear]

Yeah - it all always comes back to toilets doesn’t it Worra world.

People like to say "oh who cares about toilets" but that's massively disingenuous as we all know it speaks to something bigger.

Gender ideology is regressive bollocks that actively harms children. If people think that shouldn't be high priority on the national agenda then I don't have much to say to them really.

 

[NeverEnough]

if the reason for staying on the ward pertains to sex based organs a trans person may have then yes, otherwise no. why would someone who's lived as fully transitioned for decades be put on a ward with people they don't identify with? sex is different to gender.

it's your right to use a toilet full stop. you should be able to decide which one is most appropriate for you, disabled access included. it's used as an example because it's something everyone experiences everyday. the bathroom in your home is gender neutral. public toilets have cubicles with lockable doors. people are more concerned with themselves than they are with you.

under the equality act, gender reassignment is a protected characteristic. it also protects those being perceived as trans / 'transvestigated' by those 'who can always tell' (spoiler - they can't).

Sex is not different to gender. The terms have been used interchangeably for centuries, such as height ant tallness, gay and homosexual, Muslim and Islamic.

And deciding on an individual basis which one is most “appropriate” for you is a predators charter. Full stop also.

You also don’t “identify” as anything. Biologically you are what you are as predetermined by your DNA. Your gender is defined, your height, you age at the same rate, your eye colour, skin tone, your IQ, your athletic ability. Certainly you can alter the appearance of these through cosmetic and surgical interventions, but there’s a reason that the phrase “on a cosmetic level” means a shallow facsimile. Because it’s not real. Spoiler alert neither is religion which is also a protected characteristic, unless of course you wish to argue that your life is truly led by a metaphysical entity in the sky who created the world in seven days and who’s Kingdom can, conveniently, only be accessed after death? Such beliefs are preposterous, and will remain preposterous be they a protected characteristic or not.

As you eloquently pointed out above “ people are more concerned with themselves than they are with you” and the Legislation doesn’t require me as a private individual acting in a private capacity, to respect, not laugh at, or even not openly mock religion or transgender as the ridiculous facade it is. After all I’m in no position at all to deny anyone their basic human rights on a day to day basis. (You still haven’t told me which section of the HRA covers Pee related matters by the way). It’s not up to me to affirm, ‘Yes your god is real, or yes your definitely a woman”, you do you, affirm yourself. Why do you need me to? Because if you do than all I can say is your belief must shaky to begin with. Almost like you don’t actually believe it yourself.

It’s time to move on from #BeKind to #BeReal.

 

[Nelly's mum]

Looks like we should not partner with, work with or live with a man then girls.

Or invite any male handyperson into the house to fix our washing machine or oven. Can't be trusted alone with a woman.

You should do whatever you feel is right - I have happily lived with my (male) partner for over 20yrs.
As I have said throughout my posts - I could not vote for a party whose leader thinks some women have a penis, forgive my candour but that is bollocks.

Womens hard-won sex based rights are there to protect them from men, men present a risk to women, women *overwhelmingly* do not present a risk to other women. Women's rights shouldn't be given away to men who say they are women - this is at the expense of women's safety.

I find you are being pointlessly argumentative, the discussion is going nowhere. So please vote for whoever you wish, I can't see a point in continuing to respond to your posts

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

I do think the Tories are assuming (probably correctly) that victory depends on keeping, and attracting back a certain demographic, and that is who they are appealing to with this national service and pensions stuff. They are assuming that young people won’t vote and it’s the same at every GE, you are guaranteed certain sections of society will vote, so it’s their interests you appeal to. I have been surprised at the discussions my teenage sons have been having about politics in general and the GE specifically. A lot of their friends are actually listening to reform UK, they have some great sound bite stuff going round on TikTok which is where a lot of young people are exposed to political views and it’s in a palatable form for them. I’m not even sure what point I’m trying to make, I was just surprised that young people would be so easily captured by this type of rhetoric as I always assume they will be left-leaning. If they want young voters, especially the ones who are voting for the first time then they need to use SM to communicate with them. If it’s only the more extreme parties who have employed this approach then is it foolhardy or calculated of the main parties (reform are unlikely to win seats so could stop these new voters actually making a difference to the outcome in non-safe seats)? The battle is always getting people to vote or is it getting the desired people to vote? I always wonder what would be the outcome if voting was compulsory, and how it would change the pre-election promises. It wouldn’t happen of course as that’s a whole other can of worms.
I have been dismayed by the gender discussion on this thread as it seems that a lot of people don’t actually care about women’s rights and safety if it’s not directly affecting them. They seem to care more about the feelings of the small number of men who would seek to encroach on these rights and protections and not care if the person they are proposing to represent them cannot or will not define these as sex based. Also pointing to outliers of small numbers of women committing crimes that are usually perpetrated male on female as if this means that we should just give up trying to protect ourselves because crimes will happen anyway. It’s bizarre to me.

 

[LittleMissOnions]

Can I add the state of our water to the list of reasons why the Tories need to go. Again an example of fat cats and their cronies bleeding what should be public services dry while pouring sewage in to our rivers and seas.

I do fear it’s going to 97 all over again, if Labour get in they may be able to undo some of the damage done over the last 15yrs but if the economy recovers, the tories will return with promises of shangri-la and cream all the profit off once more.

Anyway, I’m off to argue with strangers on the internet as to why they need to vote no matter which way *wanders off muttering about women dying for this right*

 

[pommobear]

toilets have cubicles. i've never once seen another woman's genitals in communal spaces and wouldn't expect that to change because trans people are allowed freedom of expression. tarring everyone deemed an 'other' with the same brush causes nothing but harm and irrational frenzy.

eta - i know it's an important policy when considering which box to cross but i'm not looking to debate tit for tat and derail the thread

How is using an inappropriate toilet for their sex relevant to trans people having freedom of expression? I personally couldn't give a stuff if a man wants to put on a wig and a dress and call himself Delilah, as long as he doesn't expect me to participate in his delusion and pretend he is female.

 

[pommobear]

Someone kindly explain to me the difference between a man insisting he is really a woman and that everyone should see him as such, and a white person insisting they are really black and that everyone should see them as such.

One is seen as progressive and #bekind, one is seen as abhorrent (rightly). What's the difference?
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If we really care about women's safety, let's talk about the threat of masculine presenting men too. Those who identify and live as men and the safety of women at risk every day. Let's talk about it all.

No?

I completely get the suspicion some people have but it only seems to present itself when it's a man living as a woman or non binary. The silence is deafening when it comes to other things putting women at risk.

Otherwise I can only assume this is a dishonest concern and more about restricting the rights of people who make up a tiny portion of society.

I don't know any feminist who *doesn't* consistently talk about this issue.

 

[pommobear]

Personally I don't really understand the hate for Starmer. IMO he has an impossible job. Labour voters encompass a huge range of the left wing political spectrum. They include younger people who are extremely socially liberal and older people who are economically liberal but socially conservative. How you are meant to unite those factions and please them both I have no idea. My own political position is just left of centre and I will be voting Labour. I feel that anything at either extreme leaves absolutely no room for nuance and TBH I think that's a massive problem in general with politics at the moment - everything is black/white, good/evil.

 

[NeverEnough]

Seeing as you’re such an expert on sex and gender, how do you explain the existence and biological reality of intersex people?

You seem to think all humans fit neatly into either the male or female categories but that is far from the case, as I have just pointed out.

The highest estimation I have seen for the prevalence of intersex is 1.7% of the population. It is a genetic abnormality and a medical condition.

People like India Willoughby, Isla Bryson, Caitlin Jenner, Dylan Mulvaney, and Elliot Page are not intersex and never have been. They are very troubled people who have chosen to mutilate there bodies in unspeakable ways. Bryson hasn’t even done that, he still (I am not going to becoming willfully stupid and refer to him has she) still has the same penis he used to rape two women. Yet if not for an outcry so strong even the SNP had to take note he would have been sent to a womens prison. Which is insanity.

Mulvaney is a gay man who now claims to be a straight woman. So it is therefore possible to change from gay to straight? I thought that was conversion therapy.

Read the Cass report as seen as you like experts and education. Is the former President of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health enough of an expert for you?
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Someone kindly explain to me the difference between a man insisting he is really a woman and that everyone should see him as such, and a white person insisting they are really black and that everyone should see them as such.

One is seen as progressive and #bekind, one is seen as abhorrent (rightly). What's the difference?
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I don't know any feminist who *doesn't* consistently talk about this issue.

Indeed. Of the middle aged woman in her 50s who insists she is still 35…..

 

[kev1974]

Personally think a change and a reset is overdue, and I welcome it.

I’ll never vote Tory again because of various reasons to do with the handling of Covid and how I and others were affected. I won’t forget.

That said I’m not sure it’s going to be the definite tories out that a lot of people are rejoicing about already. The Labour Party is in an absolute mess over Palestine, not to mention their generally abysmal leadership. Plus people of a certain age like me can well remember that Labour are just as capable of fucking the country and the people as the Tories are!!

Uk politics is in a terrible state and a general election isn’t going to suddenly fix it.

 

[knivesnflowers]

‘reform are pretty much the third party now’ when they can’t even get the date right

 

[pommobear]

it's about retaining rights - being seen on an appropriate hospital ward, access to hrt, allowed to use public toilets without having their body parts questioned etc. sixty five thousand posts attacking one group under the guise of 'gender discussion' on this forum alone - imagine if the same was true for other minorities.

Yes, men in wigs are such a vulnerable minority.