I think the biggest difference with Thameslink and other train routes, is the stations are all close together, you don’t get big gaps longer than around 30 minutes between stations so it would generally be safer for that reason - station staff, quicker to remove yourself from a dangerous situation, different flow of people etc. If a train isn’t due to stop for an hour or more, there is more reason to deem that unsafe I believe.
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Inner city and suberban routes, where you have frequent stations you could do without a Grd.
On longer distance routes where you go 30 kins, half an hr without a second compentant person and your are putting the passengers safety at risk.
If an incident happens on the journey, the Drivers job is to be responsible for the train. That would leave no one to assist passengers, and provide information.
The incident maybe a unit issue or the train might have hit a tree and worse a person. The passengers will want assistance, support, information and in any/all of those cases tbe Driver will be be able to provide it
But this strike isn't just Grds.
I've said before but it's what makes it so hard for poeple to understand everything RMT want
Network Rail signallers and perm way staff are striking, over pay/conditions but also over changes they feel will impact on them doing there jobs safely.
Yesterday was the anniversary of the Clapham Rail disaster, the cause of which was poorly installed/maintained signalling which was due to a poor health and safety culture (which workers knew and managers ignored)
Do we really want to risk something like that happening again?
It also shows why decent pay is important for Rail Staff, and Nurses and anyone invoked in safety.
Prior to privatisation rail staff (Inc drivers) were pretty poorly paid and worked every hr they could to take home a decent wage. The signalling tech "responsible" had worked every day for the last seven weeks. Staff that are skint, that will try and cram all the overtime in to pay their way are not going it be as effective as fully rested staff.
Luckily nowdays they are many safety systems in place to prevent errors (and rules around the hours someone can work), but I still worry when poeple work the "legal" 13 out of every 14 - especially when the shifts we work are more knackering in the first palce
On longer distance routes where you go 30 kins, half an hr without a second compentant person and your are putting the passengers safety at risk.
If an incident happens on the journey, the Drivers job is to be responsible for the train. That would leave no one to assist passengers, and provide information.
The incident maybe a unit issue or the train might have hit a tree and worse a person. The passengers will want assistance, support, information and in any/all of those cases tbe Driver will be be able to provide it
But this strike isn't just Grds.
I've said before but it's what makes it so hard for poeple to understand everything RMT want
Network Rail signallers and perm way staff are striking, over pay/conditions but also over changes they feel will impact on them doing there jobs safely.
Yesterday was the anniversary of the Clapham Rail disaster, the cause of which was poorly installed/maintained signalling which was due to a poor health and safety culture (which workers knew and managers ignored)
Do we really want to risk something like that happening again?
It also shows why decent pay is important for Rail Staff, and Nurses and anyone invoked in safety.
Prior to privatisation rail staff (Inc drivers) were pretty poorly paid and worked every hr they could to take home a decent wage. The signalling tech "responsible" had worked every day for the last seven weeks. Staff that are skint, that will try and cram all the overtime in to pay their way are not going it be as effective as fully rested staff.
Luckily nowdays they are many safety systems in place to prevent errors (and rules around the hours someone can work), but I still worry when poeple work the "legal" 13 out of every 14 - especially when the shifts we work are more knackering in the first palce
So 5 hours is acceptable to travel only 61 miles. That’s what happened to me on Monday. Thanks Southern Rail.
I'm sure there was an underlying reason for that? Or are they just timetabling it as a massive waste of resource for a laugh?
I understand the views about 'some routes don't need staffing etc' but part of my job involves looking at the incident logs for the last 24 hours across the North of England and I can assure you the amount of stuff reported (never mind unreported!) Is eye opening. That is happening with sraffing presence reacting to it/reporting it so I can only imagine how much it will increase in a world where you essentially never see any frontline rail staff at all.
The points about non-frontline rail staff are totally valid but these debates always focus on frontline which is why I have focused on them. Start describing power box operation or tamper trains to a layman and you may aswell be speaking Esparanto.
Broken down train at Hampden Park, couldn’t be moved until a fitter arrived as the train couldn’t be moved without him. Missed the connecting train to Gatwick. Told to get a train to Brighton, boarded the train, then told to get off as no driver was available. Waited for another train. At Brighton was informed by a worker that there may or maybe not a train to Gatwick, all depends if a driver turns up. Finally arrived at Gatwick 5hours after leaving Hastings. My family member works at Gatwick, doing nights for just above the minimum wage and relies on the rail network to get him there. His job is now hanging in the balance because of these strikes. I agree we do need inspectors on board but unfortunately ticket offices in rural and smaller towns will eventually go because of progress. Many workers in various industries have lost their jobs because of progress and many more will.
Goverment admits it would have been cheaper to negotiate a settlement months ago, also Transport Minister claims vaguely that modernisation plans would 'pay for themselves' yet the two pro modernisation experts they had at the committee wouldn't be drawn on any figures for that: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64317725
In all honesty this government doesn’t give a damn about every day working people. They’re lining their own pockets whilst they can because when we get to vote, they will not be in power anymore. They are not willing to meet up with any of the unions to negotiate deals. Unfortunately Mick Lynch (in my opinion) doesn’t come across to well on tv.
1st and 3rd of Feb they're back on strike.
Why? The teachers strike is pulling focus big time.
Four more just announced for next month. More WFH for me.
Ffs. Don’t they care that people are losing money and jobs by not being able to go to work. How bloody much are they asking for. Everyone is
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They’re also losing money and jobs due to no payrises and redundancies.
I mean, they have the right to withdraw their labour, if their jobs are so important to other’s livelihoods they should be compensated for it.
Also it’s not really about the money at this point. Some of the terms and conditions changes that come with their pay deal are ridiculous.
For example they want to reduce the rest time between shifts from 12 hours to nine hours. Bear in mind most people (who aren’t drivers) commute into London as they can’t afford to live there on 25k a year, and so with that reduction of break time between shifts, by the time they get home, have some food and get ready for bed, they have to be up and getting ready for their next shift in five hours.
Another one is that they want to enforce forced weekend overtime at less than 48 hours notice if they’re understaffed. So on the odd occasion where staff do get a weekend off, they still can’t make plans or have any form of social life.
If it’s so important to people that they get to work then they can find another method of transportation, or put pressure on the government to actually come up with a fair negotiation
Ignoring the H&S changes, they're trying to buy out a lot of current terms and conditions which costs money
If someone told you your were having a change to your job which made the hours more unsociable, or that you now had to work a Sunday when you didn't before you'd expect more that below inflation for that.
I just feel sorry for those having to strike and deal with more days lost pay
My family member who works at the airport all night doing a 12 hour shift travels 61 miles each way to get to work and home, sometimes, mostly Sundays it takes him 3+ plus hours to get home. He works weekends too. He doesn’t whine about it he just gets on with it. He does 4 nights on 4 nights off. He knows the train journey can be erratic so he leaves early to compensate for that. He’s also paid to spend 4 nights in a hotel nearer to the airport when the strikes are on. So yes it’s fine that he will more than likely lose his job this time as he has had disciplinary action taken against him for being absent after being told that he knew what the journey would be like before he took the job on. What he didn’t know was that there would be rail strikes. So yes, I will be angry about these strikes.
He knew that was what he was signing up for when he started tho
What if they moved him somewhere that was 90 miles each way, extending his commute, or changed his pattern to one on one off or his time off to only 9hrs rest or to start before he could get a train in for?
Would he just accept it...
He would do his best. They are changing his shift times actually and he’s accepted it. It makes it harder for him but he’s accepted it. Moving him to an airport 90miles away wouldn’t happen because his company doesn’t operate at an airport that would be that far away. If he couldn’t get a train in then he couldn’t get to work which is exactly my point. Yes he knew that when he signed up and he accepted it because he wanted to work and because of his disability there are not any jobs in our local area that he could cope with.
That doesn't mean people rejecting this deal isn't a valid decision. Most of them would take the straight pay rise, even with a few conditions attached but the government has gotten greedy. If you take the time to properly read through what has been offered to the RMT conditions wise you will see agreeing that deal will essentially see thousands of people lose their jobs in the near future. Why would anyone vote for that?
Just because your family member is okay with being exploited by his employer, doesn’t mean that everyone else should be.
I don’t know why you’re literally advocating for peoples employment rights to be taken away.
Your family members employer sounds awful; disciplinary because he can’t get there? Why can’t they just find alternative shifts and get someone to cover his? Train strikes give plenty of notice to allow that to happen.
You’re being angry at the wrong people here. You should be angry at the employer that’s exploiting him in that way.
Why are the public being angry with the wrong people?
The TSSA and ASLEF have both settled and agreed with the latest offer made. It is only RMT who hasn't.
It is now at the stage where your losses from days off through strikes will not be made up with a pay increase.
Why is you think you are entitled to more than everyone else? Most people in the real world will not be getting anywhere near the rise even the TSSA and ASLEF have settled on. So why do the RMT think they are entitled to even more?
Carry on and well likely see 'Beeching II' on the railways. In which some routes and services will be cut. In addition, the passenger numbers are not what they once were - further strengthening any case for cuts. Redundancies will then be compulsory and the RMT won't be able to do a damn thing about it.
I'll also add that there are some truly rude people who work on the railways. If you don't like dealing with the public, then don't work in a job that puts you in contact with them.
I have been nothing but polite and friendly in my dealings with railway staff, however that is not always reciprocal.