Okay wow, no need to be rude! You realise this is a public forum and people are allowed to join into a discussion right?
I know it happens, and its awful - I was just agreeing that the example you used was bad.
- Notice
I know it happens, and its awful - I was just agreeing that the example you used was bad.
Well you didn't know the facts yourself when you used him as an example on immigration.Mayday, I do realize it is a public forum but it was a discussion between H and myself and you jumped in not knowing all the facts. Which is also rude!
Horatio, it is alarming that you get so defensive over the immigrants who are dangerous people and think it is okay for them to come here. If something awful happened to your child I would wonder if your viewpoint changes. But keep calling me bad/racist/extreme/chip on my shoulder.
I am just going to leave this here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...od-plane-passengers-revealed-gang-rapist.html
Thank you. I didn't mean to jump into the argument and offend you either (or imply you were racist, I was simply saying the Manchester guy wasn't a good example as I feel he became the poster boy for 'anti-muslim' and 'anti-immigration' after that happened). I also agree that the Grenfell victims have been treated poorly, and its shocking that May is leaving before they have been properly rehoused. (I wonder if they even will be now or will just be left to fend for themselves?)
Also unrelated but don't want to double post. I had a good chuckle at this
View attachment 19160
No worries, I'm sorry if my comments came off the wrong way at all. I have no problem with our multi-cultural nation and it is nice that we are more accepting than 30/40 years ago. My comments about Abedi may have come across as ignorant and I apologise in that he was indeed an English national. I just don't want to be viewed or accused of being against all immigration at all or any form of bigotry and felt offended but it was a crossing of wires.
Damn straight that my opinion as a remaindereconomic uncertainty for long periods of time isnāt good for the country. We need this finished as soon as possible and like it or not but if MPs agreed to deal to leave EU wouldnāt be the end to the arguing it would mean people would move onto arguing about the next stage. Only way to get stability back is to pull the plug on article 50, weāve had our tantrum and itās costing our country a lot
Unfortunately the majority voted leave and we have to face the consequences of if we do (which I highly highly doubt we ever will leave). Maybe people will learn a lesson then. But something does need to be done about the revolving door of immigration, we let anybody in without checks on them. Look at the Salman Abedi lad who was responsible for Manchester.. He was freely allowed in and out to Libya doing what we all found out when it was too late! Also rapists and other serious offences should be deported in my view, just as if we commit crimes in other countries we won't be tolerated there. But of course I'll probably get called racist for this post. I have no issues with the people who come here for a better life but the unsavoury people should be dealt with a firm hand.
StarryEyed
Chatty Member
Iām starting to think Prime Ministers only leave when they convinced the person after them will be worse. The David Cameron years seem like luxury compared to Mays time in power but at the time they made Browns tenure look amazing
We are living in a stubborn society where both sides (generally speaking) have views but don't listen to the others side or we stereotype each side.. It would be good if the UK people could come together to talk about debates and hear both sides. I also think that the media doesn't help. The reason why I thought that Abedi guy wasn't English is because after the incident, the media kept saying afterwards 'why did nobody stop him going between countries, why wasn't something done about this?'. We are living in hostile times and Brexit has caused a huge division between people.
My twitter feed right now is a perfect example of the divide. Well really its between those who share roughly similar liberal views arguing over whether we should have sympathy for Theresa. May's tears. I think we should and have despised her since she was.home.secretary. but when I say that I mean I despised the politician. Those were the tears from her the person - which she very rarely shows. As I said before I think the left have a real problem with separating the two. Remember all the celebrations when Thatcher died? It's the idea that they lacked empathy in their policies and don't deserve it now. Which is a misunderstanding of empathy in my view and the enemy of progress or diplomacy.
MunkyMagic
Well-known member
Yep, Boris is a wolf in buffoon clothing.
I really don't like TM. But out of Blair, brown and Cameron I think she's the best pm
But that's your opinion as a remainer. The majority was leave and are we going to keep having revotes when the other side disgarees to make each other happy? Vote leave then when remainers are unhappy vote stay then the brexiteers are unhappy and we vote leave?
emmer_moans
VIP Member
Such a mess. Best bit was seeing Larry the Number 10 cat getting taken back indoors.
I seen some bat shit stuff on Facebook sometimes the left can be as nasty as the right but their excuse they care and are passionate about injustice.
Why can't people separate the politics of a person to her speech.
If you dislike her policies or support different party fair enough but to see her so emotional I felt sympathy.
If we screw up in work and eventually leave it's not broadcast to entire nation.
She was bit doomed from the start.
I don't think she was power hungry I felt she was calm safe pair of hands with a sense of duty she certainly dident do anything to antagonize Europe like farage/Boris do that won't help the negotiations.
A change of leader won't mean we get a better deal.
Public and even members of parliament more worryingly don't understand that no deal is possibility as this is 1 consequence of envoking article 50.
What will happen the rest if may all we will talk about is may and speculate who's running for leader
June be dominated by leadership elections.
None of the parties will talk to each other and seems labour talks have broken down
UKIP will thankfully become less credible but brexit party will fill the gap.
Because mep elections use proportional representation voting for seats it's quite likely that brexit party will win a few seats for sure.
So Europe's frustrated with Nigel farrage.
They will end up with 5 of him causing bad feeling in European parliament making negotiating with Europe tricker.
If brexit party gain lots of seats it's a protest vote caused by lots main stream parties ie lib dems / change UK and parts of labour wanting to disregard the results of the referendum.
The leave remain is complex as it's mix of parties on both sides it's not as simple as red v blue.
The ones who left for change UK are vulnerable to lose their seats as people vote for party and their manifesto at general elections and in some cases they part of constituency that voted leave and they still want to remain.
July August they will all go on their holidays.
September will be mass panic as withdrawal date is set for 31st October clock ticking to deal or no deal.
Only the EU can extend that deadline.
Labour are not clear on their policy they split on the issue.
By all accounts corbyns not a lover of Europe he sat in the fence during referendum.
Lots labour don't want brexit at any costs
If we had another election no idea who I vote for.
Tories allowing their party membership to vote is interesting.
I expect it be another privately educated man who has played the long game.
I hate the way the media have portrayed may as well women.
Would love love to see another woman stand but doubtful they win.
Why can't people separate the politics of a person to her speech.
If you dislike her policies or support different party fair enough but to see her so emotional I felt sympathy.
If we screw up in work and eventually leave it's not broadcast to entire nation.
She was bit doomed from the start.
I don't think she was power hungry I felt she was calm safe pair of hands with a sense of duty she certainly dident do anything to antagonize Europe like farage/Boris do that won't help the negotiations.
A change of leader won't mean we get a better deal.
Public and even members of parliament more worryingly don't understand that no deal is possibility as this is 1 consequence of envoking article 50.
What will happen the rest if may all we will talk about is may and speculate who's running for leader
June be dominated by leadership elections.
None of the parties will talk to each other and seems labour talks have broken down
UKIP will thankfully become less credible but brexit party will fill the gap.
Because mep elections use proportional representation voting for seats it's quite likely that brexit party will win a few seats for sure.
So Europe's frustrated with Nigel farrage.
They will end up with 5 of him causing bad feeling in European parliament making negotiating with Europe tricker.
If brexit party gain lots of seats it's a protest vote caused by lots main stream parties ie lib dems / change UK and parts of labour wanting to disregard the results of the referendum.
The leave remain is complex as it's mix of parties on both sides it's not as simple as red v blue.
The ones who left for change UK are vulnerable to lose their seats as people vote for party and their manifesto at general elections and in some cases they part of constituency that voted leave and they still want to remain.
July August they will all go on their holidays.
September will be mass panic as withdrawal date is set for 31st October clock ticking to deal or no deal.
Only the EU can extend that deadline.
Labour are not clear on their policy they split on the issue.
By all accounts corbyns not a lover of Europe he sat in the fence during referendum.
Lots labour don't want brexit at any costs
If we had another election no idea who I vote for.
Tories allowing their party membership to vote is interesting.
I expect it be another privately educated man who has played the long game.
I hate the way the media have portrayed may as well women.
Would love love to see another woman stand but doubtful they win.
MunkyMagic
Well-known member
Brexit isnāt happening in a vacuum; the EU today isnāt the same as the EU of 2016.
Personally think even if this all disappears and we remain, EU will suffer slow, expensive implosion in next few years after being weighted down and fractured by populists parties. Italy is already on the brink of recession. Trade union is good, political union is bad.
Personally think even if this all disappears and we remain, EU will suffer slow, expensive implosion in next few years after being weighted down and fractured by populists parties. Italy is already on the brink of recession. Trade union is good, political union is bad.
I don't think that commenter called you a racist? They just stated that the Manchester bomber was born here - he wasn't an immigrant so couldn't be deported anywhere.
Unrelated but god it'll be a joke if we get Boris Johnson.
My point is our government needs to be careful of who it is letting in. Many atime I've flown and never had anyone check my passport at border control. Some very dangerous people come in when you leave the door wide open and we need to be careful of activites. When the multiple terrorism attacks happened in 2017 everyone was up in arms that we needed to be more careful about who is being let in and out of the country. May was a terrible leader and did nothing to solve this, she just went out each time and read from her stand prepared speeches. I feel that Grenfell sufferers should have been helped much more, also. Alot of them were migrants and treated appallingly. I never said that all immigrants are bad or they are all violent people. That is why I am annoyed at the comments. It is common of today. You cannot have a simple debate without being accused of being bigoted. Yes I do want my country to be safe, and I do feel that more could be done. The vast majority of migrants are hard workers and good people. I apologise if my comments seem in any way bigoted, but that is your issue as I am truly not and that has upset me. I dislike the far right members in politics but I feel more could be done from our current government to protect our nation.
There's a.great youtube channel called "middle ground" that gets people on different sides of controversial issues to sit down and talk to each other in a non judgemental non accusatory manner. It can get heated but it always ends well. I'm sure that's sometimes down to the editing, but the objective is so important I think. It's American though and I really think someone should make one with people who live.in the UK on our own issues. We have the same horribly divided society here and there's something cathartic about just watching these all too familiar topics be discussed in that way.
Iām massively insulted with the narrative in some media outlets that May is sort of female icon ādoing a mans jobā. Abysmal Prime Minister, clearly a massive vanity project for her so thank fuck sheās got the message and moved on. You just need to look at bee voting history and awful policies as Home Secretary to get a picture of the type of person she is. What a state British politics is. David Miliband please come and save us 
Divided as we are, I think that's the one thing everyone can agree on. Politics is a mess. I voted yesterday and the "slip" was more like a scroll there where so many independent candidates and random parties. A physicsl sign of the lack of cohesion right now. I would be interested to know if it was the same voting outside of London ? I think it's divided that way , rather than constituencies. The fact I was voting at all shows how strange times are - anyone vote in the last EU election in 2014? Didn't think so
MunkyMagic
Well-known member
I think a lot of people accidentally assume that not wanting immigration is a race issue. Because it makes sense, right? It is an automatic and reasonable conclusion on the face of it.
What people have to understand is that swathes of the country outside of cities and large towns HAVE been damaged from EU membership and immigration (because of the lack of financial support, investment and strain on public services), in spite of being told itās good for the economy etc. It may be good for the country as a whole, but these towns and areas (see Boston in Lincolnshire, Goole in Humberside as a couple of examples) have been husked out due to piss poor planning for a population boom and continuous lack of investment and neglect for years - from the EU and nationally - in spite of their numbers swelling tremendously. Itās no coincidence that these places have a strong leave percentage. The inhabitants have seen a standard of living drop as a direct result of the EU.
What people have to understand is that swathes of the country outside of cities and large towns HAVE been damaged from EU membership and immigration (because of the lack of financial support, investment and strain on public services), in spite of being told itās good for the economy etc. It may be good for the country as a whole, but these towns and areas (see Boston in Lincolnshire, Goole in Humberside as a couple of examples) have been husked out due to piss poor planning for a population boom and continuous lack of investment and neglect for years - from the EU and nationally - in spite of their numbers swelling tremendously. Itās no coincidence that these places have a strong leave percentage. The inhabitants have seen a standard of living drop as a direct result of the EU.