Surrogacy has come up lots on the Preston Davey thread in recent weeks and today Barrie and Scott Drewitt-Barlow have been charged with more sexual offences.
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This was the story that shocked me the most
www.wired.com
The Baby Died. Whose Fault Is It?
When her son died in utero, a venture capitalist went to extremes to punish her surrogate.
Surrogate story found on X
www.liveaction.org
Surrogate pressured to abort after cancer diagnosis: ‘The fathers wanted a death certificate’ | Live Action
A young woman contacted the Center for Bioethics and Culture (CBC) with a horrifying surrogacy story, reinforcing how inherently exploitative surrogacy is. According to the story , written by CBC’s...
I don't have issue surrogacy when a friend or family member offers to provide the service out of goodwill and it is not a commercial arrangement.
When money is involved there is is a lot of room for exploration. Especially when people use a surrogate from another country. I worry that women in poor countries are being pressured into it, or have to other way to earn money than doing it.
People say ' it is there choice', but i think they need to ask if the women would choose to be a surrogate if they were not being paid.
I also think that are some rich people who use surrogacy as some sort of weird flex, having multiple children almost to show off how many they can afford. If a couple was genuinely struggling with fertility issues, I think they would happy to have even 1 child, but i can recall reading about rich parents who have had 21 children born in one year to different surrogates. That is not the action of someone desperate to have a child by any means, that is the actions of a show off.
I don't think banning people going abroad for surrogacy would be plausible. People who just do it anyway, better to ask for forgiveness than permission and all that.
Maybe there should be some sort of international standard set about what constitutes a minimum fair fee for it, and checks done to make sure that the women involved are getting any appropriate treatment and support they need.
When money is involved there is is a lot of room for exploration. Especially when people use a surrogate from another country. I worry that women in poor countries are being pressured into it, or have to other way to earn money than doing it.
People say ' it is there choice', but i think they need to ask if the women would choose to be a surrogate if they were not being paid.
I also think that are some rich people who use surrogacy as some sort of weird flex, having multiple children almost to show off how many they can afford. If a couple was genuinely struggling with fertility issues, I think they would happy to have even 1 child, but i can recall reading about rich parents who have had 21 children born in one year to different surrogates. That is not the action of someone desperate to have a child by any means, that is the actions of a show off.
I don't think banning people going abroad for surrogacy would be plausible. People who just do it anyway, better to ask for forgiveness than permission and all that.
Maybe there should be some sort of international standard set about what constitutes a minimum fair fee for it, and checks done to make sure that the women involved are getting any appropriate treatment and support they need.
I feel like surrogacy between family/friends would be okay if there was some kind of rules in place. When people are paid for it it becomes exploitation in my view.
A child removed from from it's birth mother via surrogacy suffers the same profound damaging loss as a child removed for adoption. This is the same if the mother has no biological link to the child as they have had 9 months of attachment.
The mother is all that baby has known and the removal leaves a permanent mark on that child.
That is enough for me to think it should be banned but also women aren't rent a wombs. It leads to a trade in poor women who risk their health to give birth for payment. Giving birth is often the closest a woman comes to death and it has a serious impact on her body. I have lasting damage from birth injuries and I have several friends who nearly died.
The mother is all that baby has known and the removal leaves a permanent mark on that child.
That is enough for me to think it should be banned but also women aren't rent a wombs. It leads to a trade in poor women who risk their health to give birth for payment. Giving birth is often the closest a woman comes to death and it has a serious impact on her body. I have lasting damage from birth injuries and I have several friends who nearly died.
I have met someone who is extremely vulnerable and is currently carrying a child for her own mother and stepdad. She is using her own egg, and he has provided the sperm. I'm still not 100% convinced it was a "Turkey baster" arrangement, and there has been absolutely no involvement through any proper channels. This poor girl attended her booking appointment alone and was very open and honest. In my professional opinion, I have serious concerns regarding her vulnerability, her ability to fully understand the implications, and the possibility that she is being exploited. Safeguarding referrals have been made.
There are some situations like this that are very icky. Others are blatant rent-a-womb business transactions. It's an extremely murky area. Going abroad to buy a baby is also ducked up and should never be allowed! It just opens up the flood gates for sick minded individuals that will stop at nothing to abuse a real life child.
There are some situations like this that are very icky. Others are blatant rent-a-womb business transactions. It's an extremely murky area. Going abroad to buy a baby is also ducked up and should never be allowed! It just opens up the flood gates for sick minded individuals that will stop at nothing to abuse a real life child.
I don't agree with surrogacy in any form. Family surrogacy is a minefield - what if the pregnancy goes wrong or the baby is disabled etc? This would be hugely damaging to family members and place a huge strain on family relationships.
I've heard people talk about the trauma of finding out that their 'sister' or 'aunty' is actually their mother, this happened to Eric Clapton - it would be even more traumatic to find out that you were deliberately created and carried by another member if your family - so your mum is actually your aunt etc - it's all kind of weird.
A baby is not a commodity to be bought or sold, most people seem to agree with this, but a baby's primary bond is with their mum - in this respect family surrogacy is just as traumatic for the baby.
I've heard people talk about the trauma of finding out that their 'sister' or 'aunty' is actually their mother, this happened to Eric Clapton - it would be even more traumatic to find out that you were deliberately created and carried by another member if your family - so your mum is actually your aunt etc - it's all kind of weird.
A baby is not a commodity to be bought or sold, most people seem to agree with this, but a baby's primary bond is with their mum - in this respect family surrogacy is just as traumatic for the baby.
Infertility is tragic, but because you can doesn't mean you should. Buying babies is human trafficking. The baby is bonded in utero. Even family arrangements without payment is risky. Surrogate pregnancy carries higher risk of severe maternal complications not withstanding the psychological implications. Imo it should be banned worldwide.
I am implacably opposed to commercial surrogacy -- it's human trafficking, leads to attachment disorders in the baby and it's exploitation of women (often poor and vulnerable). In addition, surrogate pregnancies with donor eggs carry hugely more risk to both mother and baby than those using the birth mother's egg. And unlike adoption - where there should be proper SS oversight of the baby - there is no such social services oversight for surrogate births unless concerns are raised by which time damage may already been done.
I'm not even very comfortable with surrogacy within close family, tbh. The depth of loss that the baby feels from being removed from the mother at birth is still there.
We don't allow puppies and kittens to be separated from the mother for at least six weeks (unless there are exceptional circs like the death of the animal); if a similar time limit applied to babies it would be measured in years. It's unconscionable to deliberately create a child with the intention to separate it from its mother at birth.
I'm not even very comfortable with surrogacy within close family, tbh. The depth of loss that the baby feels from being removed from the mother at birth is still there.
We don't allow puppies and kittens to be separated from the mother for at least six weeks (unless there are exceptional circs like the death of the animal); if a similar time limit applied to babies it would be measured in years. It's unconscionable to deliberately create a child with the intention to separate it from its mother at birth.
I'm totally against surrogacy also and wish to see a worldwide ban. Outsourcing your pregnancy has almost become the norm among the rich and famous. They are buying the use of impoverished women's bodies. Do you honestly think anyone woman puts herself through the stress of fertility treatment, pregnancy, birth and then the trauma of giving up the child if she wasn't truly desperate? Many women are forced into it by controlling husbands or fathers too (witness the Indian baby factories). It's no surprise to learn that the fastest growing centres for surrogacy are poor African countries. Follow Stop Surrogacy Now and Surrogacy Concern and you'll read some horror stories.
I'm with you. So called 'altruistic' surrogacy is fraught with guilt tripping and pressure. I know someone that was placed under huge huge pressure by various family members to carry a baby for a sibling that was unable to due to cancer.
This is why I feel so strongly against it, even within families. I've never wanted to have children, but even if I did, I could never put any of my family or friends in danger like this, even they offered. The thought that my nephews or godchildren could grow up without a mother because I wanted a child is just awful.
I don't agree with surrogacy in any way, shape or form, it exploits women and turns babies into a commodity. If I had my way, it would be banned worldwide.
The family surrogacy issue is murky at best. Who do we count as "family" exactly? Is carrying a baby for your sister ok? What about your brother and his wife? Your cousin? Or, as in @Ray_of_Sunshine 's deeply sinister example, your mum? I've seen stories of women having babies for their gay brother, or for their younger sister who had cancer as a kid, it always seems to be a woman who has to pay the price for the wants of others.
Having a child is a privilege, not an absolute right. I'm well aware of the sorrows of infertility, I've been close to people who have endured enormous tragedy in their quest to have children. But that's not a problem for another woman to solve.
A horrific practice, there are no situations in which surrogacy is ok. Not a single one.
The family surrogacy issue is murky at best. Who do we count as "family" exactly? Is carrying a baby for your sister ok? What about your brother and his wife? Your cousin? Or, as in @Ray_of_Sunshine 's deeply sinister example, your mum? I've seen stories of women having babies for their gay brother, or for their younger sister who had cancer as a kid, it always seems to be a woman who has to pay the price for the wants of others.
Having a child is a privilege, not an absolute right. I'm well aware of the sorrows of infertility, I've been close to people who have endured enormous tragedy in their quest to have children. But that's not a problem for another woman to solve.
A horrific practice, there are no situations in which surrogacy is ok. Not a single one.
This isn't what attachment theory says. Attachment is not created by pregnancy alone. It develops through ongoing caring/bonding after birth.
A newborn may recognise and respond to the person who carried them, but that is not the same as having an established attachment relationship.
Even in adoption, researchers do not generally argue that every newborn adopted at birth has suffered attachment trauma because they were separated from the birth mother. The concerns raised by adoptees are often broader and relate to identity, secrecy, stigma, or later separation from established attachment figures, not evidence that gestational separation alone causes attachment injury.
If separation from a gestational carrier inherently caused attachment trauma, we would expect to see widespread evidence of psychological harm among children born through surrogacy. Decades of research have not shown that.
Even the phrase “gestational carrier” is boak worthy 
. Murky language is used to conceal what is really happening - she isn’t a surrogate or gestational carrier she is the baby’s mother.
. Murky language is used to conceal what is really happening - she isn’t a surrogate or gestational carrier she is the baby’s mother.From the NYT last year: "They Answered an Ad for Surrogates, and Found Themselves in a Nightmare"
Motherhood is not defined by pregnancy and birth.Even the phrase “gestational carrier” is boak worthy
Ok then - I’ll settle for the phrase “birth mother”
Agree. There are many adoptive mothers/ foster mothers who are wonderful.Ok then - I’ll settle for the phrase “birth mother”
But "birth mother" is acceptable as opposed to "purchaser" or "buyer" or "commissioning individual", I suppose.