Shamima Begum #2

[NeverEnough]

Wasn’t it due to her having the ability of dual nationality. She can take Bangladeshi citizenship but doubt it since she’ll more than likely face the death penalty. Similar thing with Jack Letts - because he had dual Canadian citizenship he was able to have his British citizenship stripped. Other fighters coming back have only British citizenship or a parent comes from a country that doesn’t allow multiple citizenships.

This is my understanding as well. When her British citizenship was stripped she was eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship. Which would surely have been her perfect solution, living her best life in a majority Muslim country, her greatest personal wish. Had she done this she would now no longer be sitting in a refugee camp. However for reasons best known to herself she chose not to take this simple solution, in effect rendering herself stateless. Her reasons for doing this are unknown. It’s noted that Bangladesh has the death sentence for terrorism but as one of her (many) positions is that she was naught but a simple housewife this surely would not worry her? Also ISIS warriors were noted advocates for the death sentence when applied to aid w….sorry spies….and eager to martyr themselves at any given moment.

Shamima chose her path. She chose unwisely.

 

[monga]

15 guys. 15! Fuck me. If she had been trafficked to another country and sold as a sex slave would we going ah well you shouldn't have gone. Perhaps the UK and her parents should take some responsibility for allowing this to happen in the first place. I just don't think this should all lie at her door. God if I had to live my life based on decisions I made at 15 (granted I didn't join a terrorist army) but we know how easy it is radicalise kids. Look at all these lads listening to Andrew Tate right now. Then one of them kills some baby girls, the country descends into race riots and we all clutch our pearls and look the other way.

What about the 17 yr old that was planning to kill countless innocent Taylor Swift fans ?? poor boy must be so disappointed after all that research to have his plans scuppered at the last minute …boohoo! Should we have just let him live out his fantasy No normal person chooses that life for themselves and still unrepentant after witnessing first hand the atrocities of that regime.

 

[Moth]

It is perhaps worth repeating that one of the reasons that she is able to continue to appeal is that the government chose to change the law so that citizenship is removed at the discretion of The Home Secretary without any due process before it takes place. When this change was introduced one of the concerns expressed by Parliament was that it would be used to deprive people of their citizenship while they were abroad thus making it extremely difficult to challenge the decision. The Home Secretary at the time, one Theresa May assured Parliament that such a power would be used only rarely and that any decision to deprive citizenship would have the right of appeal through UK courts with legal aid if appropriate. In fact deprivation of citizenship of people while abroad has been used rather a lot. It's also worth pointing out that plenty of people have been deprived of citizenship and challenged the decision trough the various courts but these rarely attract any interest in the media.

It's always interesting to read comments that other people should be denied due process or have their rights curtailed.

 

[Warpaint]

I don't believe she'd do any time in prison if she came back to the UK.

 

[Salted Caramel]

Those of you in the camp of "we should never allow her back":

I'm curious, what do you think about the fact we have taken other 'isis brides' back, tried them, incarcerated them, released them, and they now live amongst us as someone's neighbour?

 

[Warpaint]

She was probably hoping she'd make it back in time for CBB.

 

[monga]

She was born in the UK you fruitloop.

Culturally her family didn’t follow traditional British / western values , nor did she if her goal is to destroy all they stand for . There’s nothing about Islamic state that’s British I’m sure she’ll be able to settle back into traditional wifelife in her beloved Syria and maintain the traditions she holds dear under the new Islamic rulers ,they’d appreciate a lady like her keeping the rest in check from what I’ve seen.
---

She's still married isn't she? I'm sure I remembered that her husband is in Europe

Think he’s Dutch?

 

[Yel]

I feel like her and prince harry have a lot in common with their moaning about the media. They should do a podcast together.

 

[MedeaWho]

I’m on the episode of her losing her citizenship and damn the journalists really behaved wrongly imo
You can say it’s for public interest all you want, but there should be some respect to not interview someone after they have given birth or record the live reaction of her finding out she’s lost her citizenship

Yes. Very exploitative.

I think the podcast is phenomenal. Excellent and thorough reporting.

 

[monga]

How many appeals should we fund? ..Until she gets the right answer

 

[thegirlscout]

The UK acted lawfully, under the British Nationality Act 1981 citizenship can be removed if it’s conducive to the public good and the person is not rendered stateless. The UK courts accepted that SB had a potential entitlement to Bangladeshi citizenship by descent so deprivation was lawful.
Bangladesh’s refusal to recognise her is a separate sovereign decision and doesn’t make the UK’s action illegal. Courts repeatedly upheld the Home Secretary’s decision on national security grounds.
SB joined a terrorist group, travelled for terrorist purposes and supported and promoted ISIS. She left the UK knowingly and continued aligning with ISIS after its crimes were widely known. Claims that she was just a teenager or groomed don’t make her innocent as has been claimed via social media. The UK law recognises that 15 and 16 year olds can make serious decisions, and she voluntarily continued her involvement as an adult.
As for her returning to face trial? Most of her alleged offences happened abroad, where gathering evidence would be extremely difficult, costly and legally complicated making prosecution unlikely. Returning her would create high security and political challenges without meaningfully improving any justice outcomes.

 

[Piff paff puff]

Listening to Talk Radio with some reporter who's involved with her camp over there. There are Isis brides 20 x worse already sent back. It's already started.
Begum has been sending messages to him.
Oh and no one seems to know what happens to them once they're here.

 

[monga]

 

[Miss Havisham]

I feel that she will be back - which I could cope with, if she was put on trial and put in prison for a long, long time. Also if her parents were to be investigated and hopefully dealt with (no way do I believe that they knew nothing).
None of the above will happen. She will return, face no punishment and treated with kid gloves. She will probably also make a small fortune from telling us of her life (her own version).
Sickening - but it is what I fully expect.

 

[monga]

Loved her in Educating Yorkshire

Take it this has been posted on the wrong thread or Shamima has more explaining to do

 

[NeverEnough]

You're missing the context of how radicalisation works but that is hardly surprising


There are numerous discussions on this thread with criticisms on the legal processes

I’m not missing any points because you’re not making any points. You are doing what her supporters always do. You are trying to infantilise this grown women and make her into a quasi-victim by implying, without the slightest evidence, that she was manipulated in some elaborate headfuck. Then you will imply it’s safer to have her in the UK then outside of it, which makes zero objective sense unless you are talking about a massive 24 hour police surveillance regime, (or she has access to long range drones) and then of course you’ll deny you support her at all and pretend this is part of some larger universal principle usually involving human rights all of which have been carefully considered during her numerous appeals.

The people who support her do so because their own beliefs put race at the centre of everything and at their core they believe Shamima did what she did because she was forced into it because of White European society. They just can’t fathom that a British Asian women, who by their belief system is automatically a victim, can make bloody stupid evil decisions by her own volition, and even if she did it was because she was forced into it.

Shamima Begum went through exactly the same process as Jack Letts, with exactly the same outcome (also the subject of numerous discussions in this thread) yet Get Jack Back Home doesn’t seem to be a thing. This is due to the racism of her supporters who want this woman brought back to “annoy the gammon” irrespective of any risk she poses, which has been found, several times, to be real and substantial.

 

[NeverEnough]

It is wrong to say that there was no evidence that she was groomed. During her appeal, SIAC found "there is a credible suspicion that Ms Begum was recruited, transferred and then harboured for the purpose of sexual exploitation. She was a child at the time.” It also said that MI5 had “downplayed the significance of radicalisation and grooming”.

Evidence was presented that she was radicalised by contact with a former school friend, Sharmeena Begum who had herself been radicalised by noted ISIS recruiter Aqsa Mahmoud and had herself left home to join ISIS in 2014.

The court also ruled that the UK’s “protective duties” may have been violated when Begum’s school, police and the local council failed to prevent her from travelling to Isis territories after one of her friends did the same. The police interviewed the girls and gave them a letter to pass on to their parents. Not surprisingly, they didn't.

However the court also found that “The reality is that even apparently bright and academically gifted 15-year-olds have less personal responsibility than adults but they are not devoid of responsibility altogether.... “They cannot lawfully consent to sex, still less to marriage, but they are capable of committing criminal offences.”

And once again you are cherry picking the parts of the summing up which suit the narrative. The bottom line is that the claims of of grooming, and they were just claims, were considered at the appeal and rejected as having sufficient weight to change the decision.

“Credible suspicion”

“May have been violated”

Lots of ifs a buts there. And that is the role of the tribunal to comb through that and reach a verdict. Which is exactly what they did. And they concluded that Shamima Begum was not trafficked.

Shamima Begum is an unrepentant religious fascist who is currently reaping the whirlwind of her own actions. I believe fuck about and find out is the current social media trend.

 

[monga]

There is an element of me that feels sorry for her, she's made some very unwise choices and is paying a heavy price but to me, there's a reason why she is desperate to come back to the UK and that is likely to radicalise others. She could have gone to Bangladesh with her father but chose not to.

Not as heavy as the victims/ families of the terror organisation she chose to be part of.

 

[thegirlscout]

She already had Bangladeshi citizenship at the point where Sajid Javid deprived her of British citizenship (in 2019). She subsequently lost her Bangladeshi citizenship under Bangladeshi law (in 2020) and can no longer 'take' it. Effectively she is now stateless.

If she lost her Bangladeshi citizenship after she lost her British citizenship surely it’s the fault of Bangladesh that she’s stateless?

 

[Moth]

How many appeals should we fund? ..

The number that she is entitled to until she has exhausted the appropriate legal process for the issues involved. In this case Tribunal, Court of Appeal and Supreme Court and possibly the European Court of Human Rights. Same as anybody else.