Sam Smith

[Guccigal]

Absolutely awful, awful abuse from this crazed Irish loon.

This is what I mean, does anyone actually think this is okay? Imagine being on your commute to work and someone starts shouting that at you like that wtaf

nobody said anything when gaga was acting obscene in the 2010s, cardi b literally has a song called WAP, Madonna snogged Jesus in a music video and so many rockstars do insane tit. Everything’s “iconic” until it’s someone that doesn’t fit the mould people usually see it from. Nothing that he’s doing is anything remotely new

 

[bubbadabut]

I mentioned earlier the move towards unisex job titles in the 90s. It was progressive and impacted on everyone. The whole non-binary thing concerns such a small amount of people. I know languages change over time, but here we are, mangling one of the most immovable rules of grammar to appease them.

As for the backlash, you've only got to look at Sam's album sales figures. The whole thing is a turn-off to the vast majority of people.

In the Lonely Hour 2.7m UK sales
The Thrill of it All 775k
Love Goes 121k
No figures for the new one yet, but it's dropped from number 1 to number 13 in just one week.

Note how Demi Lovato is back on the female train since her career took a gender-fluid nosedive.

 

[Erling Haaland]

I don’t care if Sam Smith wants to wear a pair of earrings or a bright, patterned jumper. If he wants to play dress up like lady gaga, that’s also his choice. be who you want to be.

But let’s be honest, this chubby white bloke in his 30s can’t even dance!! When he’s on stage surrounded by actual talented dancers he does a few awkward moves next to them and it looks terrible!!!
If he could throw some serious shapes I could take him seriously but he just can’t pull it off!

songwriting yes, piano yes, wear a weird outfit,,,, whatever you want ….dancing in nipple tassles….. needs work …. SERIOUS work

 

[RJF]

Sam got their first UK number 1 singles in 4 years a few months ago. It was also their first number 1 ever in the US.

No evidence at all of career decline.

 

[bubbadabut]

Sam got their first UK number 1 singles in 4 years a few months ago. It was also his first number 1 ever in the US.

No evidence at all of career decline.

Singles mean sod all. Albums are where the money is made. For Gloria to drop from number 1 to number 13 in one week is a very bad sign.

Harry Styles is still knocking around the top 10 after 38 weeks.

 

[RJF]

Singles mean sod all. Albums are where the money is made.

You never mentioned money.

You said “The whole thing is a turn-off to the vast majority of people” - the evidence suggests otherwise.

 

[Ekathrina]

We all know it’s been done before. That’s kind of the point.
I find it a bit funny as someone who was a goth/alternative type in the 80’s and a glam rocker in the early 90’s and who’s had more blokes in make up and hairspray than you could shake a sequinned stick at that a load of online scolds think they can preach at people and make unreasonable demands.
You must have your head in the sand if you think Gaga, Madonna, Cardi B and so on haven’t had any flack about similar things. They absolutely did, deservedly so in some cases.
Also -

Pronouns are Rohypnol • Fair Play For Women

There’s a lot of chat around about pronouns right now. Specifically, ‘preferred’ pronouns. By which is usually meant, the pronouns a person would prefer.

fairplayforwomen.com

It’s kind of amusing when the pronoun supporters themselves can’t even get the pronouns consistently right though. Whoops.

 

[bubbadabut]

You never mentioned money.

You said “The whole thing is a turn-off to the vast majority of people” - the evidence suggests otherwise.

I never mentioned singles either. I mentioned the backlash affecting his album sales. Nobody is buying it.

Most artists get an award show bounce. Hs had the opposite.

 

[RJF]

I never mentioned singles either. I mentioned the backlash affecting his album sales. Nobody is buying it.

You said in your post that there are no figures released for the current album

You can dislike Sam Smith all you like, but it is bizarre to claim that the person with the biggest worldwide single of the last six months is in a terminal career decline. The facts don’t care about your feelings.

 

[bubbadabut]

You said in your post that there are no figures released for the current album

You can dislike Sam Smith all you like, but it is bizarre to claim that the person with the biggest worldwide single of the last six months is in a terminal career decline. The facts don’t care about your feelings.

How pedantic do you want to be? His album sales have nosedived since In The Lovely Hour, when he was plain old Sam, and despite no figures being available for Gloria, he's dropped 12 places off the chart during music awards week when most artists see a massive uplift in sales.

 

[RJF]

How pedantic do you want to be? His album sales have nosedived since In The Lovely Hour, when he was plain old Sam, and despite no figures being available for Gloria, he's dropped 12 places off the chart during music awards week when most artists see a massive uplift in sales.

You are wrong. Sam’s album is at number five this week in the sales chart. The four albums above it a new releases, so naturally would have more sales.

Official Albums Sales Chart | Official Charts

The UK's Top 100 biggest artist albums of the week, compiled by the Official Charts Company, based on sales of CDs, vinyl, cassettes and digital downloads.

www.officialcharts.com

 

[plinky2]

It’s not any celebrity’s job to teach your kids though? I don’t get that argument. I grew up watching all sorts of raunchy tit, rnb and rap have always notoriously been wild and xrated but my parents taught me well and even at a young age I could understand it was just entertainment. The only way your kids will be affected by Sam smith or anything similar is if you’re the type that just shoves them in front of the tv or lets them loose on the internet. I worry how little faith so many parents seem to have in their ability to raise kids that they blame everyone but themselves.

and yep I agree with you on the gender stuff, but someone simply asking to be called they them in their everyday life not the same as men infringing on women’s rights. I pick my battles and pronouns are the bottom of the list when it comes to the harm that gender politics is currently causing women

Doesn’t this completely discount the well proven concept that social media does influence young people, significantly? A young child shouldn’t have access to social media, but young teens do. Hasn’t it been well proven that young people are significantly influenced by pornography, images, body image, violent sex acts? The rise in eating disorders, self harm, violence against women is not going away, it's worse

Do you have kids, or you are just someone who was once a child? I feel like you have an idealism about what it’s like to be a parent in modern times with the internet being so influential. I mean do you suggest its parents fault if kids see porn imagery and clothing on the Spotify playlist images, or songs entirely about sex acts on radio 1. It’s normal now, it’s not easy to escape it and it’s even harder for parents to manage it.

Of course parents want to protect their kids from mainstream imagery that is adult and porn influenced. Young teens dressing up or wanting to dress in PCV, chains, chokers and rubbing their nips in the name of ‘fashion’ would be inappropriate, no?

The reason I think it’s impactful it’s not just that sam looks stupid or I find it disgusting its that it’s just clearly a marketing ploy, there is no way of knowing whether this is ‘genuinely sam’ and their new style now, having stylists making a name for themselves, everyone is talking about Sam and it’s making Sam money, so no I don’t have to buy into it’s just freedom of expression just because you think it’s art - maybe it’s not?

You can’t use Madonna as an example. She is an absolute mess, has no music out and is now a joke
Cardi B took loads of flack
Lady Gaga has changed her image quite a lot since she got taken more seriously

 

[RJF]

mean do you suggest its parents fault if kids see porn imagery and clothing on the Spotify playlist images, or songs entirely about sex acts on radio 1.

In which case, your argument is with Spotify or the BBC. Not Sam Smith.

 

[#notanadad]

The thing about pronouns is that EVERYONE refers to other people as him/he/she/her based on what people look like. It’s a natural way to speak to/about people. Yet when you get someone who is gender neutral, you’re expected the suddenly be aware of using that instinctive language and correct yourself before you’ve even spoke. It’s a lot to expect from people (plus it can be confusing using the term they/them for a singular person). Then if you use the incorrect term you’re attacked and expected to apologise? Like wtf? Just move on and try and remember next time. That’s not bullying/hateful speech it’s just normal use of language. I think it’s actually made more of a big deal by apologising every time you get it wrong. And that’s why people check out from it and say they don’t believe in it. Because why should we all be expected to apologise for just using everyday language? I’d rather not engage with it so Im therefore not likely to make the “mistake” if that makes sense.

Imagine this, you’re in a restaurant and a man at the next table asks for a menu. The waiter says “of course sir let me just get that for you”. And the man then goes on to explain they’re actually gender neutral and don’t answer to the term “sir”. What is that waiter supposed to do? Apologise? For just being polite? No duck that. And that’s why people can’t be doing with it all.

I teach my children that life is unfair sometimes and that we can’t always get what we want, and that sometimes people will have opposing views to theirs. I think gender neutral people need to realise that they can identify as a bleeping pigeon if they want but they can’t expect everyone in the world to understand that or be on board with it (absolutely not condoning violence though, I’m just talking about using normal language such as “fisherman” instead of fisher-them ).

 

[Guccigal]

Doesn’t this completely discount the well proven concept that social media does influence young people, significantly? A young child shouldn’t have access to social media, but young teens do. Hasn’t it been well proven that young people are significantly influenced by pornography, images, body image, violent sex acts? The rise in eating disorders, self harm, violence against women is not going away, it's worse

Do you have kids, or you are just someone who was once a child? I feel like you have an idealism about what it’s like to be a parent in modern times with the internet being so influential. I mean do you suggest its parents fault if kids see porn imagery and clothing on the Spotify playlist images, or songs entirely about sex acts on radio 1. It’s normal now, it’s not easy to escape it and it’s even harder for parents to manage it.

Of course parents want to protect their kids from mainstream imagery that is adult and porn influenced. Young teens dressing up or wanting to dress in PCV, chains, chokers and rubbing their nips in the name of ‘fashion’ would be inappropriate, no?

The reason I think it’s impactful it’s not just that sam looks stupid or I find it disgusting its that it’s just clearly a marketing ploy, there is no way of knowing whether this is ‘genuinely sam’ and their new style now, having stylists making a name for themselves, everyone is talking about Sam and it’s making Sam money, so no I don’t have to buy into it’s just freedom of expression just because you think it’s art - maybe it’s not?

You can’t use Madonna as an example. She is an absolute mess, has no music out and is now a joke
Cardi B took loads of flack
Lady Gaga has changed her image quite a lot since she got taken more seriously

I do have kids actually a 13 and 8 yo. My husband and I grew up very worldly, from poor and disrupted childhoods so we’ve both seen and sadly experienced a lot. Our goal with our kids isn’t to shield them from the world or hide things from them, the world is a tit place and every generation had their own “porn, sex, internet” hysteria. In our opinion the younger you’re exposed to the darkness of the world the less negatively impacted or likely to be influenced you are.

we encourage our kids to critically think about what they see and consume, we are open with them and in turn they feel free to ask us questions and we have chats about everything you’ve mentioned. We give them privacy while monitoring and tbh we’ve never found anything worrying so we must be doing something right. They have iPhones and social media just like their friends but they don’t mindlessly and secretly consume content, which is where I think the problem is. Some of daughters friends are really left to their own devices by their parents or overly sheltered and they are the ones dressing inappropriately or even talking to boys

and all the people I mentioned have at some point been widely praised for their antics or still are. Cardi b is still seen by many in the media and fans as a feminist icon of sorts. People suddenly calling it dark and demonic are the same people that called others conspiracy theorists for pointing out the same things back in 2010s

and yes I agree, my initial post literally said no one has to like, understand or support them but everyone going out of their way to humiliate them and make them feel like tit is very weird.

 

[RJF]

The thing about pronouns is that EVERYONE refers to other people as him/he/she/her based on what people look like. It’s a natural way to speak to/about people. Yet when you get someone who is gender neutral, you’re expected the suddenly be aware of using that instinctive language and correct yourself before you’ve even spoke.

But this is exactly the same with titles? Mr, Miss, Mrs, Dr…

We don’t get this “stop the world, I wanted to get off!” whenever somebody gets married and might change from Miss Smith to Mrs Smith.

You can’t tell what title someone is by looking at them either. We try and remember the new title and apologise if we use the wrong one when speaking to them. I’m pretty sure that is all that non-binary people are asking of us.

it can be confusing using the term they/them for a singular person

Is it? We have been saying phrases like “If the customer who left the umbrella at reception comes back, tell them it’s in the lost and found box” for years. The singular “them“ has always existed.

Imagine this, you’re in a restaurant and a man at the next table asks for a menu. The waiter says “of course sir let me just get that for you”. And the man then goes on to explain they’re actually gender neutral and don’t answer to the term “sir”. What is that waiter supposed to do? Apologise? For just being polite? No duck that. And that’s why people can’t be doing with it all.

Again – it’s the same with titles. People are more than comfortable with correcting and apologising when a Dr is called a Miss or whatever. It is exactly the same thing.

 

[HeyBabes]

This is what I mean, does anyone actually think this is okay? Imagine being on your commute to work and someone starts shouting that at you like that wtaf

nobody said anything when gaga was acting obscene in the 2010s, cardi b literally has a song called WAP, Madonna snogged Jesus in a music video and so many rockstars do insane tit. Everything’s “iconic” until it’s someone that doesn’t fit the mould people usually see it from. Nothing that he’s doing is anything remotely new

I’m amazed she could recognise him because he’s actually wearing something normal. I wouldn’t have recognised him like that

 

[Erling Haaland]

But this is exactly the same with titles? Mr, Miss, Mrs, Dr…

We don’t get this “stop the world, I wanted to get off!” whenever somebody gets married and might change from Miss Smith to Mrs Smith.

You can’t tell what title someone is by looking at them either. We try and remember the new title and apologise if we use the wrong one when speaking to them. I’m pretty sure that is all that non-binary people are asking of us.



Is it? We have been saying phrases like “If the customer who left the umbrella at reception comes back, tell them it’s in the lost and found box” for years. The singular “them“ has always existed.

Again – it’s the same with titles. People are more than comfortable with correcting and apologising when a Dr is called a Miss or whatever. It is exactly the same thing.

The titles example makes zero sense. Men never change their title. Women sometimes do. If someone called me Miss instead of Mrs I wouldn’t call them a bigot. People barely even use titles these days, it’s completely different from words we use constantly in every day language.
---

The thing about pronouns is that EVERYONE refers to other people as him/he/she/her based on what people look like. It’s a natural way to speak to/about people. Yet when you get someone who is gender neutral, you’re expected the suddenly be aware of using that instinctive language and correct yourself before you’ve even spoke. It’s a lot to expect from people (plus it can be confusing using the term they/them for a singular person). Then if you use the incorrect term you’re attacked and expected to apologise? Like wtf? Just move on and try and remember next time. That’s not bullying/hateful speech it’s just normal use of language. I think it’s actually made more of a big deal by apologising every time you get it wrong. And that’s why people check out from it and say they don’t believe in it. Because why should we all be expected to apologise for just using everyday language? I’d rather not engage with it so Im therefore not likely to make the “mistake” if that makes sense.

Imagine this, you’re in a restaurant and a man at the next table asks for a menu. The waiter says “of course sir let me just get that for you”. And the man then goes on to explain they’re actually gender neutral and don’t answer to the term “sir”. What is that waiter supposed to do? Apologise? For just being polite? No duck that. And that’s why people can’t be doing with it all.

I teach my children that life is unfair sometimes and that we can’t always get what we want, and that sometimes people will have opposing views to theirs. I think gender neutral people need to realise that they can identify as a bleeping pigeon if they want but they can’t expect everyone in the world to understand that or be on board with it (absolutely not condoning violence though, I’m just talking about using normal language such as “fisherman” instead of fisher-them ).

I don’t personally think I’ve ever seen a ‘gender neutral person’ ….99.9% of the time it’a clear what their sex is. Regardless of wether they’ve Decided to wear a skirt or how short their hair is.

 

[RJF]

Men never change their title.

Men become Drs or Sirs or Lords.

If someone called me Miss instead of Mrs I wouldn’t call them a bigot.

If someone called someone Miss instead of Mrs, refused to correct it when asked politely and then followed up with a bunch of misogynistic slurs, I would call them a bigot.

I don’t personally think I’ve ever seen a ‘gender neutral person’ ….99.9% of the time it’a clear what their sex is.

Sex and gender are two different things. The former is biological and the latter is a social construct.

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

I really don't understand people saying things like 'don't comment on Sam Smith's recent outfits, it doesn't affect you, live and let live' etc. No, of course it has no personal bearing on my life at all, but the delicious irony is that without these parades of attention seeking and ridiculous costumes, no-one would give a duck and he would not be getting anywhere near the levels of attention he is now. If he is this great talent (and I do think he is talented) then why such distractions? Well, it's a tale as old as time and has been done ad nauseam. The likes of Cardi B and Madge get MASSES of flack, but like it or not, they get away with it more because they have a certain level of sex appeal. Sam Smith doesn't - he looks like an embarrassed Dad on a stag do being forced into dressing up. Why shouldn't people comment? Or do you really think he and his people want no-one to pay any attention?