Preston Davey Trial #5

[MmmB777]

I agree with what you've said. I just don't think social workers can ever be in a position to question a doctor.
I remember after the murder of Sarah Everard, the police commissioner said women should flag down a bus if they felt in danger from the police. As if a bus driver has authority over the police.
And this is what this is giving. Social workers should continue to take the opinions of doctors as well as their own gut instinct. If a doctor says is fine, I can see why a social worker would dismiss their instincts.

That accounts for the arm break but not the other red flags surely. In a space of a few weeks, a bone break and a hospital report of possible non accidental bruising to the head should warrant a huge spotlight on that home regardless.
It’s looking at that broken arm in a non mobile baby and adding it to the full picture of him being miserable, bruised, even writing out ‘I questioned if something was wrong but decided no’ in the baby’s own record is unfathomable to me. What did that SW do with those niggling doubts? In education that’s what they’re called and you always act on them and I would have thought in social care that is even more vitally important. To me, if that was written, there should be a paper trail of concrete measures she took to come to that decision that nothing was wrong.

The arm on its own without that wider picture doesn’t scream get the baby out of there now but the multiple issues did imo. Even if it was just cos they appeared to be struggling and there was a perfectly good option in the foster carer whilst they found out what was happening or offered more support.
Unfortunately sometimes there’s just a perfect storm of errors. I know that nefarious people will always find a way to access and abuse the most vulnerable in society but that doesn’t feel like a good reason not to highlight mistakes and shortfalls. I’m not arguing with you by the way. I think we mostly agree. There are always so many what-ifs it can feel torturous really can’t it.

 

[Monkeydust24]

Totally agree with this! And frustrating that in situations like this blame is aportioned to the individual worker who is probably working into their own time, seeing less of their own family to try their best for the children allocated to them and not at the system that is forcing them to work into those conditions at the expense of their own well-being and in rare cases, children they are working with.

Exactly! I wasn’t even able to take my own children to hospital appointments as I was dealing with urgent issues at work. Your time is so stretched. And all the goverment and serious case reviews say time and time again is that lessons need to be learnt and communication is poor. But nothing changes!!! We can’t access medical files, if a child changes Gp it’s not linked up, it’s like pulling teeth to get info from other areas. They need one system everyone accesses and can review to see things. It shouldn’t keep happening but it does. You used to get free uni if you trained as a social worker. I’m in 60k worth of debt that iv been paying for 10 years that’s now higher than when I left uni.

There’s no incentive to the role. Why would you?? To be slated in the news papers, on social media, instantly blamed when a child dies because you’re working in a broken out dated system where nothing changes. There’s less social workers than there ever has been and things like this will sadly continue to happen unless they change things

 

[DipsyDoodle]

I know the defence have to do the best they can for their client, but are we really expected to believe that a qualified teacher and safeguarding lead honestly didn't think that having many pictures of a baby's genitals and mole on his phone was "just funny"? All the half baked explanations, the not mentioning the video of Preston struggling to breathe on the day he died because "it was all so stressful", surely if you hadn't caused that you'd have got to the hospital and said "he had a long seizure earlier today"? If it's out of the ordinary it's absolutely not something that would slip your mind all the balls about saying that he was talking about his sister when his work colleague said that he'd told her he was having dark thoughts about drowning Preston, why wouldn't the sister be called as a witness to verify this?

So many lies and bull to try and pull the wool over everyone's eyes.

 

[MmmB777]

Exactly! I wasn’t even able to take my own children to hospital appointments as I was dealing with urgent issues at work. Your time is so stretched. And all the goverment and serious case reviews say time and time again is that lessons need to be learnt and communication is poor. But nothing changes!!! We can’t access medical files, if a child changes Gp it’s not linked up, it’s like pulling teeth to get info from other areas. They need one system everyone accesses and can review to see things. It shouldn’t keep happening but it does. You used to get free uni if you trained as a social worker. I’m in 60k worth of debt that iv been paying for 10 years that’s now higher than when I left uni.

There’s no incentive to the role. Why would you?? To be slated in the news papers, on social media, instantly blamed when a child dies because you’re working in a broken out dated system where nothing changes. There’s less social workers than there ever has been and things like this will sadly continue to happen unless they change things

Honestly so grateful there are people like you that are willing to do the job. I think it must be one of the hardest out there. The stakes are so high and the systems are so broken.

 

[karmadrama]

I feel sick waiting for the jury to reach a verdict. I really hope justice is served for poor little Preston’s sake

 

[dotty2888]

Honestly so grateful there are people like you that are willing to do the job. I think it must be one of the hardest out there. The stakes are so high and the systems are so broken.

And running the risk of being the next practitioner slated when (in most cases, not all) you’re just trying your best in circumstances where the best is not good enough as you just don’t have the time! The real criticism in respect of some of the more professional failings lies here with the governments of the last 15 years that have chronically underfunded public services.

 

[Amydior1947]

I feel sick waiting for the jury to reach a verdict. I really hope justice is served for poor little Preston’s sake

And me. I keep checking here and MEN live to see if anything has come in. I have a feeling some verdicts have been given already. No reason to think that other than a gut feeling.

 

[Emsie]

That accounts for the arm break but not the other red flags surely. In a space of a few weeks, a bone break and a hospital report of possible non accidental bruising to the head should warrant a huge spotlight on that home regardless.
It’s looking at that broken arm in a non mobile baby and adding it to the full picture of him being miserable, bruised, even writing out ‘I questioned if something was wrong but decided no’ in the baby’s own record is unfathomable to me. What did that SW do with those niggling doubts? In education that’s what they’re called and you always act on them and I would have thought in social care that is even more vitally important. To me, if that was written, there should be a paper trail of concrete measures she took to come to that decision that nothing was wrong.

The arm on its own without that wider picture doesn’t scream get the baby out of there now but the multiple issues did imo. Even if it was just cos they appeared to be struggling and there was a perfectly good option in the foster carer whilst they found out what was happening or offered more support.
Unfortunately sometimes there’s just a perfect storm of errors. I know that nefarious people will always find a way to access and abuse the most vulnerable in society but that doesn’t feel like a good reason not to highlight mistakes and shortfalls. I’m not arguing with you by the way. I think we mostly agree. There are always so many what-ifs it can feel torturous really can’t it.

Agreed!
I agree with the people that work in social services when they say it's under resourced and under financed. I'm proud of our social services and I'm happy that my family is one of its success stories. But it needs a holistic approach to change and investment. We are forever funding the NHS and social services is like a poor cousin. Every single process in social services needs review and that is not the fault of the people on the ground doing the work.
Gosh this case is horrific. Was listening to the podcast today and I just burst into tears. It's soul destroying.

 

[pixieroo]

And me. I keep checking here and MEN live to see if anything has come in. I have a feeling some verdicts have been given already. No reason to think that other than a gut feeling.

I have the same gut feeling, and I got a breaking news notification for something about Keir Starmer earlier and had the fleeting thought it might be about this case.

I do feel we've still some time to go though, with the amount of charges to go through sadly.

 

[Ray_of_Sunshine]

I know the defence have to do the best they can for their client, but are we really expected to believe that a qualified teacher and safeguarding lead honestly didn't think that having many pictures of a baby's genitals and mole on his phone was "just funny"? All the half baked explanations, the not mentioning the video of Preston struggling to breathe on the day he died because "it was all so stressful", surely if you hadn't caused that you'd have got to the hospital and said "he had a long seizure earlier today"? If it's out of the ordinary it's absolutely not something that would slip your mind all the balls about saying that he was talking about his sister when his work colleague said that he'd told her he was having dark thoughts about drowning Preston, why wouldn't the sister be called as a witness to verify this?

So many lies and bull to try and pull the wool over everyone's eyes.

The defence made for infuriating reading yesterday in the judge’s summing up. Some of it was nothing short of victim blaming a dead baby - he was clumsy and responsible for some of his own indecent images because he moved the towel himself to expose his genitals. Our innocent client is just a misunderstood, sassy vision of beauty who is the victim in all of this. Wah wah wah. What a sickly job.

 

[MmmB777]

And running the risk of being the next practitioner slated when (in most cases, not all) you’re just trying your best in circumstances where the best is not good enough as you just don’t have the time! The real criticism in respect of some of the more professional failings lies here with the governments of the last 15 years that have chronically underfunded public services.

Yes that is absolutely part of the discussion. It is with the Letby case too. And the Allitt case decades before!
I get that this case is really emotive, I’ve tried to make my points sensitively and with balance and I’m not trying to “slate” anyone. I do have a relatively good overarching idea of the state of public services, having worked in the second lowest funded LA and a close family member that’s an expert witness that is all too aware of what a bleeping mess social care and mental health services are in. Very involved with awful cases, lots where children are involved, although I’ve banned them from those cases now. I know that most people are not in these jobs to go and be tit at them! It’s bloody tough.

But we are discussing the bits of information we have and so it’s natural questions will be asked about the questionable things. I don’t think the nurse that didn’t act on the weird feeling she got from JV showing her the video where he let the box fall on Preston is to blame or should be slated either but it would be right for questions to be asked about whether safeguarding was prioritised then too. Again, not an easy job to drop everything and act detective. But if one person acts differently on their gut instincts because of lessons learnt then that’s a good thing.

Again, I feel like any work with children in the public sector, the stakes are very high when you feel responsible for happiness, safety, education, mental health, all these crucial things and you fight against forces out of your control. It’s really tough. I think in my profession you carry enough of the “what if” and for Social Work that must be so magnified, it must be excruciating at times.

 

[AladdinSane]

And me. I keep checking here and MEN live to see if anything has come in. I have a feeling some verdicts have been given already. No reason to think that other than a gut feeling.

I'm sure they'll have some sorted but others to go through. I imagine JMF is the more tricky one cos I can see someone maybe disagreeing.
If they agree with all of JVs charges could they be released early? Or would it have to be both?

 

[Pulltheotherone]

They could be unanimous on one but not the other yes.

 

[Monkeydust24]

I agree with what you've said. I just don't think social workers can ever be in a position to question a doctor.
I remember after the murder of Sarah Everard, the police commissioner said women should flag down a bus if they felt in danger from the police. As if a bus driver has authority over the police.
And this is what this is giving. Social workers should continue to take the opinions of doctors as well as their own gut instinct. If a doctor says is fine, I can see why a social worker would dismiss their instincts.

Iv challenged medical reports before it gets you nowhere. Your manager will say we are not medical experts, what can we do? I challenged a bruising I didn’t think was accidental the event didn’t match up. You take it to your manager who says trust the medical opinion we aren’t able to age bruises / say what is or isn’t accidental. Your hands are tied.

 

[Miscanthus]

You can have the utmost respect for people working their arses off in the public sector (multiple years myself!) but still acknowledge there’s sometimes grave mistakes.
The doctors in the Letby case had my heartfelt sympathies and still do. They were the heroes of that case but the facts remain that if they had done things differently then a whole group of little children would be turning ten right now. They aren’t to blame, they aren’t responsible for the deaths, perhaps even more effort from them wouldn’t have come to anything and for every awful loss there are probably thousands of lives saved but even they acknowledge personal errors and failures. Recognising those mistakes, changing the systems that allowed them to happen and fighting for change is all you can hope for.

Unfortunately the doctors who suspected something was wrong were stymied by the dire management in the Letby case.

 

[Tobodee]

Do we just keep refreshing the MEN news for updates? Or are there any X accounts that have live updates please? Honestly my anxiety today

I’ve been unable to post for a few weeks but been following. A few have mentioned, but I just want to echo: this site may have a bad reputation but it’s been helpful to me, and for want of a better phrase, also sort of comforting knowing I’m not alone in just how much this case is effecting me.
We all just want justice for Preston

 

[MmmB777]

Unfortunately the doctors who suspected something was wrong were stymied by the dire management in the Letby case.

Oh honestly nobody knows that better than me! I am firmly on their side but I think all of them made very sincere apologies to the parents at trial. It kills me that really good people live with that and carry that weight of these awful cases in their hearts when people like Letby and Varley are just living in their sick narc fantasy land.

 

[MrsHans]

Just seen this x

 

[nothinonyou]

Just seen this x

That was a few hours ago. They're just there in anticipation of a verdict

 

[PaddyDomino]