It's all me speculating, and sorry it's upsetting even to think about and type - but I do wonder whether he knew that, given what he was doing to Preston and causing the seizures, there was always a risk that one day he would take things too far? so maybe painted that narrative with the bath and had all the recordings of him on his own there, so he’s got back up for the fake story - similar to what he did with the toy box video.
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If it was 36 minutes long, either the timings are off somewhere or…he didn’t hang up right away, they were still connected when he got in the house.
I think he was just sloppy and didn’t delete. He got a jibe in about “one of John’s phones” implying there might be some other unknown phone in existence. I strongly suspect JMF was more careful and he seems the more intelligent of the two. And they both seem evil to me.
JMF covered a bit more detail about their relationship at the start of his testimony. They met whilst he was working in bar and JV was teaching:
The defendant says he met Mr Varley in 2018 when he was living at his family's home in Cheshire. He was working and in full time education at the time, he says.
Mr McGowan-Fazackerly was a bar manager looking after numerous bars on the university campus and taught first year undergraduate politics at Keele University, he says.
Mr Varley, he says, was working as a teacher in Blackpool. He was in Congleton, Cheshire. He moved to Blackpool in July 2019 but spent a lot of time in the town with Mr Varley, spending long weekends there, at Mr Varley's previous home in Sunningdale Avenue.
There was also a bit of evidence today about looking at JMFs search history regarding of the medical episodes so I think if there was any evidence of dark web chat rooms etc we’d had heard it - to use the dark web you need a tor browser so even if they’d have ‘got rid’ of any searches/it’s difficult to track use, they’d be potentially evidence that could be recovered to indicate dark web usage.
I appreciate that it would be easier to think these people find each other in ‘dedicated’ awful spaces but in reality, these people live like the rest of us and that’s a very scary thought
Sorry I wasn’t having a pop, just thinking ‘out loud’ as it were. They’ve not thought that any normal person would query all the (presumably!) silent, creepy videos, or the amount of them. I genuinely don’t know whether to think they had murder on the mind or whether both have been so arrogant to think that a few trips to the hospital wouldn’t flag them up to anybody and that they’d get away with it for however long. I do wonder whether they were assuming that once Preston was older, that they’d go down the adoption process again?
They said JMF called JV around 17:45. Timings seem a little out, hopefully it’s clarified tomorrow.
I liked how, today it was mentioned that a member of JV’s family had PND. I didn’t know it was catching 
his KC has to earn his money somehow I suppose.
his KC has to earn his money somehow I suppose.
Those histrionics at the hospital don't even seem like JV is fearful that he is about to be caught out, imo. They are so obviously fake but I think they both thought that they had been so clever, they just had to act the part of grieving parents, and then walk away, having outwitted everyone.
As for this creature today, the repeated 'my son' and 'my child' is grating, in the extreme, considering what was done to that poor defenceless baby, and the terrible death he suffered.
My heart is broken for him, and the fear and the pain that he went through is unimaginable. I hope they both get the longest sentences possible, and never see freedom again.
As for this creature today, the repeated 'my son' and 'my child' is grating, in the extreme, considering what was done to that poor defenceless baby, and the terrible death he suffered.
My heart is broken for him, and the fear and the pain that he went through is unimaginable. I hope they both get the longest sentences possible, and never see freedom again.
It’s horrible! How do they even find out that they’re both into the most depraved thing a person can be into?! It beggars belief.
No need to apologise, I didn’t think you were having a pop
I remember my dad once calling me when mine were a similar age. He got the hump because I was trying to see to them and speak to him. He said ‘I’ll call you back when you’re less busy’ so I replied ‘yep, how about in 16 years’
I often wonder this. Of course I’m happy not to know as well, but I’m curious in how the dark web works as we hear so much about what’s on there but I wouldn’t have a clue how! I just can’t believe that two men meet and one day one of them says what they’re into and just by chance the other’s like ‘me too’. But I suppose they aren’t the first pair to join up in depravity, and won’t be the last unfortunately.
I can’t recall any reference to either rum saying they loved him so much
I think this may have been mentioned because JV had tried to suggest that comments he'd made to his colleague about potentially being depressed, were actually about his sister.I liked how, today it was mentioned that a member of JV’s family had PND. I didn’t know it was catching
oh, is that the colleague he was begging antidepressants from?
This is the issue though. These deviants didn't present as 'Monsters' did they? They never do
They were a professional couple who appeared good candidates for adoption. No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. BUT - those red flags started to appear pretty quick with the hospital visits etc. Nothing was done or challenged about it. Even when the nurse & foster carer reported concerns, they were disregarded. But why? Prestons death could have been prevented by the very people who should have been protecting him.
Don’t fall for it. It’s for sympathy. Poor little fragile Jamie suffering from his make believe “post adoption depression” 4 months in with a baby he apparently so desperately wanted and hadn’t even bonded with yet. I’ve never heard such tripe. Completely different to having a biological baby and PND or post partum psychosis - he’s making a mockery out of very serious conditions that women suffer from. He’s an attention seeking crap bag. I wouldn’t be surprised if he lapped up the attention he was getting for the constant histrionics and how his baby was a nightmare and what was it he said? Annoying. Woe is me 
how hard for him. The constant hospital and GP visits, ringing and texting the incompetent social worker at all hours. Not just to try and get ahead and hide the abuse but because he enjoyed the limelight and special treatment he was getting from all these enabling arseholes. duck him.
how hard for him. The constant hospital and GP visits, ringing and texting the incompetent social worker at all hours. Not just to try and get ahead and hide the abuse but because he enjoyed the limelight and special treatment he was getting from all these enabling arseholes. duck him.
The phonecall timings aren't making sense. 36 minutes? For me, a normal person, there is nothing more frustrating when my husband calls me on his way home from work. I know it's done with love but I ain't got time to be chit chatting with you when you're home soon. They must have been concocting a story surely! But why is only just being mentioned? We don't usually have these dramatic bombshells mid-trial in the UK.
I thought it was a given he was trying to build several different narratives so if he ended up dead he could pick the most fitting one as an alibi.
SA to death - seizures caused him to choke.
Beaten to death - his squint made him clumsy and it was a horrible accident.
Drowned - had PP psychosis caused him to drown him and he'd claim insanity.
I think sometimes you can be a bit dependent on the reporting and it does lead to jaw dropping moments part way through. I do remember it happening a bit with the Letby trial.
I’ve been reading the live reporting but not all the different outlets write up and although it’s not a timeline defining bombshell, the fact JMF shouted yesterday was only reported in the Mail.
You’re a bit reliant on seeing what the court reporter thinks is significant and it could be that they didn’t realise how important the 36 mins would eventually become.
Come on Caroline and Liz, have a coffee and let us know
they won’t let us down!
I’ve been reading the live reporting but not all the different outlets write up and although it’s not a timeline defining bombshell, the fact JMF shouted yesterday was only reported in the Mail.
You’re a bit reliant on seeing what the court reporter thinks is significant and it could be that they didn’t realise how important the 36 mins would eventually become.
Come on Caroline and Liz, have a coffee and let us know
they won’t let us down!