Michael Jackson

New to Tattle Life? Click "Order Thread by Most Liked Posts" button below to get an idea of what the site is about:
Yes famous people can definitely get the best lawyers.
But I read all the OJ details and I see how he got away with murder there. It wasn't just the best defence lawyers, the prosecution messed up sadly.

I don't rely on the media reporting of the 2005 Jackson trial as they were ridiculously anti Jackson and I couldn't understand what was going on. I stuck to reading the court transcripts (because I'm a bit of a nerd like that!).

I found this article very interesting about 2005 trial:



I don't agree about all these "rumoured" NDAs that you have no evidence of whatsoever and is based purely on speculation. If you look at the court transcript from the AEG wrongful death suit after Jackson died (brought by the Jackson family), the court went through all Jackson's accounts and no huge NDA payments mentioned. Also the FBI were investigating Jackson on and off for a ten year period. Tapping phones and all sorts. They never found any evidence and NDAs with big payouts, would very likely have been picked up. If you have the time or inclination I'd personally read the court transcripts - very interesting !
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6
Yes famous people can definitely get the best lawyers.
But I read all the OJ details and I see how he got away with murder there. It wasn't just the best defence lawyers, the prosecution messed up sadly.

I don't rely on the media reporting of the 2005 Jackson trial as they were ridiculously anti Jackson and I couldn't understand what was going on. I stuck to reading the court transcripts (because I'm a bit of a nerd like that!).

I found this article very interesting about 2005 trial:



I don't agree about all these "rumoured" NDAs that you have no evidence of whatsoever and is based purely on speculation. If you look at the court transcript from the AEG wrongful death suit after Jackson died (brought by the Jackson family), the court went through all Jackson's accounts and no huge NDA payments mentioned. Also the FBI were investigating Jackson on and off for a ten year period. Tapping phones and all sorts. They never found any evidence and NDAs with big payouts, would very likely have been picked up. If you have the time or inclination I'd personally read the court transcripts - very interesting !
Makes a lot of sense - but I know from the Weinstein one, there were things turning up every day that had been hidden from everyone before. All those payouts he made, all the NDAs his previous employees had... at the level of making money for other people that these perverts are at, I wouldn't be shocked to learn anything about them. They certainly have firms of people specifically used to cover up tit for them. And why would it be Jackson in particular getting picked on - why would he unfairly be targeted when many people as famous - let’s say Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, that sort of level to name two he worked with - rarely have anyone accuse them of anything?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2
And why would it be Jackson in particular getting picked on - why would he unfairly be targeted when many people as famous - let’s say Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, that sort of level to name two he worked with - rarely have anyone accuse them of anything?
I think a part of that is just how 'alien' Jackson was, and how easy it was to pin any sort of outlandish claim on him due to his eccentric ways.
Not to mention, Neverland Ranch being an open house to anyone who waned to go there meant it was easier to claim it was the setting/location of abuse...other celebs weren't as willing to let fans into their homes.
And before people say that open house policy incriminates him, I want to point out that the ranch was open to adults and children, and just about anyone who wanted to enter was granted permission to visit and stay. This has been documented over the years- he just wanted people to have a bit of the escapism that he himself needed so badly.
I have no idea if he's innocent or guilty, I cried with the Leaving Neverland documentary and believed them. But once I started digging deeper, there were a lot of details from the accusers that did not prove true in the end. Seeing that alternative documentary posted above- it showed facts without the emotional manipulation, and it confirmed a lot of what I'd read... It makes all those claims seem like a witch hunt and money grab, unfortunately.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9
I just get the feeling that if Gary Glitter had been the one with the money and fame, we’d be here reading about his accusers being liars and wondering if any of the rumours were true. It just seems so easy to cover stuff up if you have the money and are making big dollars for influential people too. If any of us had kids sleeping in our beds for ANY “reasons” we would expect to get locked up and have nobody trust us again
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 11
I was a huge fan of MJs. Stuck up for him over the years re allegations. Thought they were all after his money,he was like a child himself,he never had a childhood etc. Then saw the documentary in Feb. Something inside me switched. I can't look at him now. His music is tainted.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 7
I was a huge fan of MJs. Stuck up for him over the years re allegations. Thought they were all after his money,he was like a child himself,he never had a childhood etc. Then saw the documentary in Feb. Something inside me switched. I can't look at him now. His music is tainted.
Yes it was a very well done documentary. I believed every word at first too. I'm actually now shocked that channel 4 convicted a dead black man FOR PROFIT with no evidence. I'm not saying Jackson is innocent- obviously I can't say that I wasn't there and Jackson's behaviour with children and obsession with childhood has always been troubling and his family and friends should have intervened as it left all parties so vulnerable.

BUT there's some serious holes in that documentary. In the documentary Safechuck claims to have been abused daily in a trainstation at Jackson's ranch (In the "honeymoon phase"
of his abuse as he called it). It has subsequently transpired was train station was not built until 4 years after Safechuck claims his abuse ended. I've rewatched that scene again from the documentary and now I know that element of it cannot be true the whole thing just doesn't sit right.

The other accuser, Robson, says in the documentary that Jackson "turned him against women" and that Jackson only wanted him as his special friend. Well it now transpires Jackson introduced Robson to his Neice, Brandi Jackson. And Robson and Brandi dated for 8/9 years! Something Robson himself verifies in court documents but this part of the story has been left out of the documentary. Surely it would have been worth Robson mentioning once during a 4 hour documentary that he was dating his abusers niece the whole time he was being abused and apparently being turned against women?

Both these two new accusers got into serious financial difficulty just weeks before claiming to remember abuse. That is suspect. Doesn't mean they're lying but it is suspect.

Robson also claims Jackson's hair felt like a "Brillo Pad" and as many black people on Twitter have pointed out, there can have been no black people involved in the making of this "documentary" as this immediately stands out. Black hair in a jerecho curl doesn't feel like a Brillo pad. Again, that doesn't mean Robson is lying (he could have misremembered this), but it needs to be factored in.

Another element not included in the documentary but that is included in the court documents: Robson's email to his mum asking her for details of his meetings with Jackson. Robson emailed his mum attaching a newspaper article and says in the email "mum is this article true, I don't remember" and Robson's mum replies "wow no none of this is true". Yet Robson goes on to include all the details from the article in his multi million dollar lawsuit anyway!! It's definitely worth reading the court documents - it's fascinating.

Same with Gavin who accused Jackson in 2005. He claimed Jackson tried to kidnap his family in a hot air balloon. The claims got so ridiculous the jury were openly laughing at points.

I just get the feeling that if Gary Glitter had been the one with the money and fame, we’d be here reading about his accusers being liars and wondering if any of the rumours were true. It just seems so easy to cover stuff up if you have the money and are making big dollars for influential people too. If any of us had kids sleeping in our beds for ANY “reasons” we would expect to get locked up and have nobody trust us again
Aside from the OJ Simpson case, I don't know much about any of these other cases that always seem to get put into the mix. Just because Jimmy Saville and Gary Glitter are guilty,it doesn't mean every weird famous guy who gets accused must be to too.

I actually don't really want to make simplistic comparisons but if forced... for a start, Glitter and Saville's accusers all went to the police in the first instance. Indeed with Saville the police and BBC covered it up for years. Contrast this with Jackson where the FBI were investigating Jackson over a ten year period and the police nearly bankrupted the state of Santa Barbara in trying to convict Jackson. They even sent officers to Australia to try and find new accusers. They found no

All of Jackson's accusers have gone to civil lawyers first to seek money. All Jackson accusers have had financial problems. This is the opposite of Saville and Glitter.

If your son had been abused would you want money or justice first? Which would be more important?
I know it doesn't mean these accusers are lying but again it's part of the picture.

Again, personally I want to get away from comparison. Look at each case and each accuser individually. Just because OJ got found "not guilty" doesn't mean all rich people with good lawyers get off. Each case is separate and it's too simplistic to just use a broad brush approach. I know it takes more time but individual research is needed.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 10
I can understand both sides of this, but for those just condemning Jackson based on the Leaving Neverland documentary- would you please watch the Square One documentary posted? It makes for a fairer picture overall. It's filled with facts whilst the former is purposefully leading people by emotions in the absence of hard facts. Both of them together provide a clearer picture.

The other thing to note (which I think others have mentioned before me) is that MJ was investigated 20 times (or some such insane number) by the FBI but they found absolutely nothing incriminating against him and said so repeatedly.
It's not like Weinstein where the local police and press were on his payroll and covered up for him (I think I read that tidbit in 'Catch and Kill'). This wasn't a coverup by a local police station (because none of the accusers or their families ever informed the police or filed a criminal case against Jackson). This was various departments in the FBI each coming up empty when they raided MJ and his family's homes repeatedly.

Guilty or innocent, nobody will know for sure, and I'm not trying to convince anyone. I was swayed by the documentary and then found the facts to mostly be proven false. I appreciate a counter documentary that aims to present a more factually researched picture of what occurred (and since this is a "documentary" and not fiction, I am shocked that Leaving Neverland didn't get fact checked).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8
My issue with the Leaving Neverland documentary was how some facts were so inaccurate with dates, location and times. Even the director some things were made that way to make a better story.

They’d already had their case thrown out of court when they tried to sue the MJ productions and venture for 1.5 billion in 2013 and 2015. This happened after Wade got upset that Cirque du Soleil wouldn’t hire him to choreograph the MJ Cirque du Soleil show and tried to write a book about MJ but no one wanted it.

The judge said, he’d sworn under oath twice and you can’t sue a corporation for molestation. Which you now can as of 2020 due to law changes so they’ll try again but MJ was broke so they will only be taking money from his kids I guess.

I’ve read the court documents, the FBI watched him for years and years and found nothing. No eveidence, MJ never paid anyone it was Sony and Insurance to shut people up. It wouldn’t be hard for Wade to create a similar story all these years later to make some money as he was broke.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8
Either way,I really can't bring myself to listen to any of his songs anymore,which is a huge shame. It just feels so wrong...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4
Just the titles wind me up. Is “beat it” him talking about what he wants to do to a young boy? Was “dirty Diana” his Ghislaine Maxwell? Odious, creepy manchild.
 
Either way,I really can't bring myself to listen to any of his songs anymore,which is a huge shame. It just feels so wrong...
See I’m so fine with listening to music from some questionable people as I like the music not them. I can almost remove my opinion and what they did from my brain and enjoy the songs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3
I can understand both sides of this, but for those just condemning Jackson based on the Leaving Neverland documentary- would you please watch the Square One documentary posted? It makes for a fairer picture overall. It's filled with facts whilst the former is purposefully leading people by emotions in the absence of hard facts. Both of them together provide a clearer picture.

The other thing to note (which I think others have mentioned before me) is that MJ was investigated 20 times (or some such insane number) by the FBI but they found absolutely nothing incriminating against him and said so repeatedly.
It's not like Weinstein where the local police and press were on his payroll and covered up for him (I think I read that tidbit in 'Catch and Kill'). This wasn't a coverup by a local police station (because none of the accusers or their families ever informed the police or filed a criminal case against Jackson). This was various departments in the FBI each coming up empty when they raided MJ and his family's homes repeatedly.

Guilty or innocent, nobody will know for sure, and I'm not trying to convince anyone. I was swayed by the documentary and then found the facts to mostly be proven false. I appreciate a counter documentary that aims to present a more factually researched picture of what occurred (and since this is a "documentary" and not fiction, I am shocked that Leaving Neverland didn't get fact checked).
You’re like me. You’ve done your research I see and there is just so much that doesn’t add up. There was something like 60 lies found in that “documentary “ hit piece. So anyone can be tried and convicted on two charlatans bad acting now? Disturbing and graphic accounts do not make for evidence and facts. He went through court and they found nothing. He wasn’t even in the same country when one of the man claim abuse happened. They also only went public with their allegations after the stature of limitations were up so they couldn’t get done for purgery and lying under oath.
The media have loved to peddle the narrative. Oprah Winfrey, got the “victims” on her show and watched LN on a boat on her birthday ( who does that ??) . Someone who then turns out to be best friends with Harvey Weinstein and lined up girls for Harvey to sexually abuse. Call me daft but I do believe that MJ knew too much about what was going on in Hollywood and that’s why they tried to pin it on him. He was used as a scapegoat for the likes of all the pedophiles coming out now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7
You’re like me. You’ve done your research I see and there is just so much that doesn’t add up. There was something like 60 lies found in that “documentary “ hit piece. So anyone can be tried and convicted on two charlatans bad acting now? Disturbing and graphic accounts do not make for evidence and facts. He went through court and they found nothing. He wasn’t even in the same country when one of the man claim abuse happened. The media have loved to peddle the narrative. Oprah Winfrey, got the “victims” on her show and watched LN on a boat on her birthday ( who does that ??) . Someone who then turns out to be best friends with Harvey Weinstein and lined up girls for him to sexually abuse. Call me daft but I do believe that MJ knew too much about what was going on in Hollywood and that’s why they tried to pin it on him. He was used as a scapegoat for the likes of all the pedophiles coming out now.
Still can't get away from the fact he let (mostly)young boys in his bed. Whatever the facts,this is wrong surely??
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4
Still can't get away from the fact he let (mostly)young boys in his bed. Whatever the facts,this is wrong surely??
Of course facts matter! I think he was maybe naive or eccentric but it doesn’t automatically mean sexual behaviour between adult and child if you are a normal human being. He’d grown up in the limelight, I don’t think he had a grasp on what we would call normal behaviour. How could you? Everyone knows your face since five years old. But that still doesn’t make me label him a pedophile.
Most importantly though in court the mother said they only visited four times and I think three he wasn’t even there! It’s just stuff like that that makes me query it. It wasn’t mostly boys either. Lisa Marie Presley has done many interviews explaining this. I’d rather listen to his wife than The Sun paper. I just feel there’s so much that doesn’t add up with this case. No one can know for sure of course but it makes for food for thought. I’m not media lead that’s all. I read the court documents and it really opened my eyes to how much was wrongly put in the press. Since all this stuff with Epstein came out I’ve been a lot more open minded. It seems the real people were protected for years and he’s been labelled over and over in death. Why do they constantly bleat on about it? It just seems really odd to me. Dead, black man accused even in death despite being proven not guilty in court ( even the term Wacko Jacko is racist ) but elite, white men get away with it for decades.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5
Still can't get away from the fact he let (mostly)young boys in his bed. Whatever the facts,this is wrong surely??
In square one, they mentioned his bedroom was like a house with 2 floors. I think one case mentioned where they slept in the bed Michael and another man, a member of staff slept on the floor. The man was there as a witness.

He did dumb things. I guess we’ll never know why.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2
In square one, they mentioned his bedroom was like a house with 2 floors. I think one case mentioned where they slept in the bed Michael and another man, a member of staff slept on the floor. The man was there as a witness.

He did dumb things. I guess we’ll never know why.
I think there was probably a part of “ I’m Michael Jackson, I’ll do what I like” kind of stubborn, pig headed kind of attitude too. I mean you can’t become the world’s biggest superstar without being a) driven and b) having a bit of an inflated ego. I remember reading one of his bodyguards books and he said if he saw something he wanted he’d be like “ I’m having that. “ One time he saw some sort of the advertising feature, twenty foot feature of something or other and he said he wanted one. The bodyguard said “ you can’t just buy that. It’s advertising something, it’s not actually for sale “ and he was adamant he was getting one and sure enough he did.
Also I think while it’s not true he paid off victims I reckon he did just throw money at stuff and say “ make it go away. “ He certainly had his issues but I think that just came from being a child star. They all seem too. I certainly wouldn’t swop my boring life for money and fame.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Not sure where I read it but apparently MJ offered Lisa Marie's children's dad a million dollars to adopt them. I can well imagine. To MJ anything had a price 🙄
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2
Not sure where I read it but apparently MJ offered Lisa Marie's children's dad a million dollars to adopt them. I can well imagine. To MJ anything had a price 🙄
"Apparently". Right.

Well Riley (Lisa Marie's daughter) has said in her own words in a recent interview "I loved him" when talking about Michael Jackson
Lisa Marie said of Jackson: "He was an amazing person, and I am lucky to have gotten as close to him as I did and to have had the many experiences and years we had together,"......"I desperately hope that he can be relieved from his pain, pressure and turmoil now. He deserves to be free from all of that and I hope he is in a better place."

Still can't get away from the fact he let (mostly)young boys in his bed. Whatever the facts,this is wrong surely??
Yes it's definitely stupid and put everyone in a vulnerable position. Hanging around with children (boys and girls) in bedrooms should never have been acceptable and his family or someone close to him should have stopped it. It's unclear whether Jackson was actually sleeping in beds with children, potentially just sharing a room from time to time as Jackson seemed to suggest in the Bashir documentary. But still. I take your point. It was stupid and naive. This sort of behaviour, certainly in western culture, is not acceptable for a reason (but I have listened to others who say it's far more normal in other cultures).

That said Jackson grew up in a tiny house with loads of siblings and was always on tour on the road, sharing bedrooms with his brothers constantly. So you can sort of see the whole arrangement, whilst still stupid, seemed more normal to him. He did not have a "9 to 5" job so the idea of bedtime or normal hours didn't apply in the same way. Jackson's choreographers would often say Jackson didn't have a normal body clock; he would usually practise dancing all night and just sleep in the day.

People would come and stay at Neverland for weeks at a time (people like Mark Lester and Diana Ross' family including son Evan). They all attest to be giving free access to the whole of Neverland including Jackson's bedroom. So it seems as if that room wasn't treated like some sacred room for sleep. More of an activity room on two stories that people would play and sleep in.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3
"Apparently". Right.

Well Riley (Lisa Marie's daughter) has said in her own words in a recent interview "I loved him" when talking about Michael Jackson
Lisa Marie said of Jackson: "He was an amazing person, and I am lucky to have gotten as close to him as I did and to have had the many experiences and years we had together,"......"I desperately hope that he can be relieved from his pain, pressure and turmoil now. He deserves to be free from all of that and I hope he is in a better place."



Yes it's definitely wrong and puts everyone in a vulnerable position. Hanging around with children in bedrooms should never have been acceptable and his family or someone close to him should have stopped it. It's unclear that he was actually sleeping in beds with children, potentially just sharing a room from time to time. But still. Wrong. Certainly in western culture but I have listened to others who say it's far more normal in other cultures. It's definitely not acceptable in the Uk and there's a reason for that!

But Jackson grew up in a tiny house and loads of siblings and then on tour on the road, sharing bedrooms with his brothers constantly. So you can sort of see the whole arrangement seemed more normal to him. He had no 9 to 5 job so the idea of bedtime or normal hours didn't apply. His choreographers would often say Jackson would usually practise dancing all night and sleep in the day. He had people who would come and stay at Neverland for weeks at a time (people like Mark Lester and Diana Ross' family including son Evan). They all attest to be giving free access to the whole of Neverland including Jackson's bedroom. So it seems as if it wasn't treated like some sacred room for sleep. More of an activity room on two stories that people would play and sleep in.

Exactly. I only believe stuff when I hear it from the horses mouth i.e Lisa Marie’s actual kids or Lisa Marie herself. She said a million times she loved him and they had a normal, healthy relationship, abet with its problems how many celebrity relationships don’t ( ?! ). They had a lot in common both being from showbiz families. I can’t wait for her book to come out, although no doubt some of that will get misquoted and twisted.

I love a good debate but if you’re quoting the papers that’s not good enough for me. 🙄