Madeleine McCann #2

[NoodlesToodles]

The guy will never go on trial, it will blow over or he will go the same way as Epstein. Any defence lawyer worth their salt would rip apart the abduction story. All they need to say is 'ok, prove it. Place my client in the apartment'. Question remains, why was there a corpse and blood detected in the flat? Why out of 9 grown adult professionals could not one get a consistent account of what happened that day? It's an absolute shit show with the media swallowing every headline and story thrown at them by the spin and pr experts.

 

[TenPenceMix]

The one thing that swayed me towards the parents’ being guilty of something was the diary entry of Gerry McCann the day before the cadaver dogs where due to search the apartment, Gerry (knowing about the dogs’ visit) wrote at length about Sean really loving seabass (2 years old ) apparently he couldn’t get enough of the stuff. The only other organic matter to give off a cadaver like smell, is Seabass. Being a doctor he would have known this, and was pre-empting (in my opinion) that the dogs would have picked up a cadaver scent and he already had the seabass line written and published in the online diary -very clever.

 

[idk2]

The day after Maddie was abducted, they put the twins back in the creche if you can believe it!!! You would think that with one missing child, you would investigate everyone the child came in to contact with especially the creche service who knew the routine of the kids during the day!! Not only did they put the twins in the creche but apparently most of their friends also put their kids there too! I know looking after kids is challenging especially under stressful circumstances but two adults in the group could've looked after all 7(?) children for a day whilst the rest did police interviews/searching!
All these friends are meant to be intellectual doctors and researchers! The mind honestly boggles.

 

[Sara_M]

The only evidence of an abduction, is missing Madeline. That's it.

The circumstantial evidence against the parents having some involvement, far outweighs abduction theory.
Missing Madeline.
No evidence of a break in.
No unidentified fingerprints.
Cadaver dog.
Blood dog alerting in same spots.
Changing statements.
Conflicting Tapas statements.
Statement analysis.
Lack of DNA, including Madelines, suggesting thorough cleaning.
Child neglect.
Edited/ deleted phone logs.
Gerry and Murats oddly in sync phones.
Brian Kennedy's dinner with Murat.
Refusal to take part in reconstruction.
Government protection within 24 hours.
Gaspar statement.

Those are facts, either straight from themselves, in the PJ files or conclusions from experts in their field.
I could also mention kate not answering the questions but, as this was probably legal advice, we'll have to leave that one. That being said, if my child was missing, nothing would keep me quiet. Nothing!! I'd be screaming from the rooftops, begging people to listen to me.

Then throw in their, questionable behaviour. The tennis, the running, the dinner with Freud, washing cuddle cat, the car boot left open morning, noon and night, snarky, defensive attitudes, monetizing the disappearence by setting up a private limited company "Madelines fund", selling a book in which you describe her "perfect genitals...", having the nanny from the creche visit them in England, the priest saying he had been "deceived" by them, choosing a picture at least a year old, as the one to release in those early days, only having 5 photos of her after supposedly a weeks holiday, going against police advice regarding the release of information about her distinctive eye (it was recommended not to point this out to the potential abductor), Gerrys refusal to answer if he knew Murat and, the one I'll never understand,
never physically searching for her themselves.

Like I said, circumstantial, none of this is the "smoking gun" but, put all the little pieces together and it paints a picture.

 

[paigelemonade]

Don’t know if you’ve discussed this theory, but this is genuinely what I believe happened

Some of the reasons I think they covered it up and lied

Some of the various signs of their guilt

 

[NoodlesToodles]

You really need to take all of what is said in mainstream media with a pinch of salt. Actually, a shovel. Please remember the person feeding them the headlines is a pro political media expert, supported by lawyers with media connections to certain multinational media groups. You will only get the side of the story that has been the go to narrative from day one.

They have supposedly had investigators looking for her, please look into the type of people they have had 'searching' for their daughter whom they are convinced is missing and alive. After less than a week they were setting up a fund for legal fees, now why would you do that if you were convinced your daughter could be found alive and potentially could have been at that point?

The case they used to try and discredit the dogs, the guy ended up confessing the dogs were in fact right and he had murdered his wife 20 odd years prior. So after that didnt work they tried to blame the handler, no wait ut was because kate was in contact with dead bodies before she went on holiday... but wait she took her daughters comforter in her bag when she visited all of these dead bodies gerry had to go home to get a sample of maddie's dna because there was not enough trace of her in the flat. There is no accurate account of what happened on the day she went missing. Grown adult professionals can't remember why they did this, when..... but David payne remembers the last time he saw all three kids they looked so well cared for, so happy and mostly in white.... really?

I am not surprised so many believe the abduction narrative, if you only read mainstream media and watch the netflix doc you are bound to. Even the despatches program on ch 4 a couple of years after was so telling but there is much more if you care to look.

 

[Scubasf]

Good point. Much of this kind of information doesn't get mentioned today.

There was no DNA of Maddie's to be found by forensics when they combed the place. DNA is practically impossible to eliminate.

In the end, the Police flew back to the UK with one of the parents and secured her DNA from her pillow and other items.

Another fact that always left out is they found spinal fluid on the floor behind the curtains but had none of her DNA to compare it to. They later confirmed it was hers.

As the Police said at the time, it was like she was never in the apartment. That, is a lot of cleaning.

Edited to add: Because of the spinal fluid, I've always thought she died in the apartment,

Do you have a link to the source that says that spinal fluid was found? Also, whoever said that there was evidence that the apartment had been extensively cleaned/bleached, so you have a link to the source? Because I don’t think there is evidence of either of these potential facts. Don’t get me wrong, I tend to fall on the side of the parents being involved, but I think it’s important to stick to the verifiable facts when discussing the case, not least because of their love of suing everyone.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

All this talk of religion just makes me wonder what the McCanns did or said to make that priest turn against them so suddenly. One minute they had the keys to the church the next he was saying he never wanted to speak of them again It must have been something pretty big.

 

[Sara_M]

So it looks pretty certain the German guy killed the poor girl which will kill all the conspiracy theories on this thread and elsewhere on social media...dang it, another good conspiracy gone for good, looks like the Masons have got away with another killing.

Gerry, it's late, get to bed

 

[Sara_M]

I've posted this before but, I just want to point out again, for me, it isnt a case of "oh I hate the mccanns, they did it!" My opinions are based on the following.

The only evidence of an abduction, is missing Madeline. That's it.

The circumstantial evidence against the parents having some involvement, far outweighs abduction theory.
Missing Madeline.
No evidence of a break in.
No unidentified fingerprints.
Cadaver dog.
Blood dog alerting in same spots.
Changing statements.
Conflicting Tapas statements.
Statement analysis.
Lack of DNA, including Madelines.
Child neglect.
Edited/ deleted phone logs.
Gerry and Murats oddly in sync phones.
Brian Kennedy's dinner with Murat.
Refusal to take part in reconstruction.
Government protection within 24 hours.
Gaspar statement.

Those are facts, either straight from themselves, in the PJ files or conclusions from experts in their field.
I could also mention kate not answering the questions but, as this was probably legal advice, we'll have to leave that one. That being said, if my child was missing, nothing would keep me quiet. Nothing!! I'd be screaming from the rooftops, begging people to listen to me.

Then throw in their, questionable behaviour. The tennis, the running, the dinner with Freud, washing cuddle cat, the car boot left open morning, noon and night, snarky, defensive attitudes, monetizing the disappearence by setting up a private limited company "Madelines fund", selling a book in which you describe her "perfect genitals...", having the nanny from the creche visit them in England, the priest saying he had been "deceived" by them, Jane Tanners hugely changing account of the suspect she as adamant was Murat (and proved not to be), choosing a picture at least a year old, as the one to release in those early days, only having 5 photos of her after supposedly a weeks holiday, going against police advice regarding the release of information about her distinctive eye (it was recommended not to point this out to the potential abductor), Gerrys refusal to answer if he knew Murat and, the one I'll never understand,never physically searching for her themselves.

Like I said, circumstantial, none of this is the "smoking gun" but, put all the little pieces together and it paints a picture and its certainly enough to justifiably question the parents.

 

[Savewaterdrinkgin]

Hi newbie here, I’ve followed this case from the beginning and it’s really sad there still hasn’t been justice for Madeleine. Ive always had the belief the parents were involved, whether they caused it or just covered it up I don’t know but they definitely know more than they have let on.
Based on facts and police records over the years I’m convinced Maddie died on the holiday, possibly the day of arrival. I know people who believe she was never on the holiday and it was one big scam with a cover up from ‘higher up’ due to certain people who were also there at the time including a boat belonging to the royal family.
There were no reliable witnesses of her being seen after the second day.
Photos released publicly were photoshopped, not to mention the eye defect and deleting photos from their camera.
The missing poster was captured on the wayback machine before she was even missing, how do you explain that without confirming it was preplanned? The printed posters were already ready to hand out when she had supposedly gone missing.
It was widely speculated in the early days that none of the children were left alone as one adult was missing from the table each night, confirmed by the tapas staff. It’s likely they took turns each night and were caring for all the children in one room, they had to invent the story to make an abduction seem possible. To pretend you left your children alone proves whatever happened to Maddie was far worse than negligence charges.
The blood marks found in the apartment had been bleached and furniture rearranged to hide them. Kate was seen buying cleaning products, who does that on holiday? They said the blood was from a nose bleed and cut knee confirming they knew it was her blood. They refused for the cleaner to come into the apartment, what were they hiding?
Gerry decided to buy a new freezer rather than ask the landlord to repair the broken one, very generous of him.
According to Kate’s own mum, they were not practising catholics. I certainly believe they took advantage of the middle class religious family image and confessed to the priest what happened to their daughter.
Their hire car with the unfortunate smells had a very high mileage on it at the end of the lease. Before they were made suspects they were not being watched so they could go wherever they wanted, it was definitely possible to move a body. I remember an article about a witness seeing the hire car in an area far from the algarve so what were they doing. The traces of dna in the boot were believed to have been frozen and were defrosting causing the leak, which takes me back to the point about the freezer Gerry disposed of.
They sued everyone they possibly could, a lady had so much abuse over them she committed suicide and the police officer in charge of the case was threatened and his dog killed.
The German man is a scapegoat imo, they want the case solved and this is the easiest way.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

I wonder what the twins will do when they reach adulthood. Will they speak out? Will they campaign alongside mum and dad? Will they write books?

What ever they do, whether they choose to speak publicly or not, I hope they are happy in life.

 

[Annieanne]

I have never felt that the parents had anything to do with Madeline disappearing. Without doubt they were foolish and negligent, but I do believe they truly loved Madeline as we all love our children. I'm sure that this torments them each and every single day. As a bereaved parent of a three year old son believe me I can tell you that from day one I have seen in Kates eyes the same torment I experience every day. My son died in my arms in hospital. I have been without him now for far too many years. Please be sure of what you're saying when you blame this family because,... Yes they made mistakes.... but I'm sure most of you cannot begin to understand the pain of losing your child. And for me, what is worse... far worse than knowing your child has died..it would be the not knowing. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. We need to think of Madelines siblings at the very least. I truly believe those twins have devoted loving parents. I wish the family peace. X

 

[SteppieMcStepface]

Hi, thanks for the reply, if I post a link to the documentary would you translate it or give a run down of the information contained?

I have no clue what is being said and in case it's anything horrific I will appologise now in my ignorance.




This is the link

SPIEGEL TV exklusiv: Das kriminelle Leben des Christian B.

Laut BKA-Gutachten wird Christian B. als Psychopath mit pädophilen Neigungen beschrieben. Bei dem mutmaßlichen Mörder von Maddie McCann gibt es Verbindungen zum Fall Inga aus Sachsen-Anhalt. Ein Film von SPIEGEL TV.

www.spiegel.de

Here's what was said about him, I left out the interview with the McCanns and other descriptions of what has been discussed here many times...

The BKA describes him as a psychopath with paedophile tendencies. He grew up in a foster home. In a chat protocol of 2013 he talks about his innermost wishes. Capturing a young girl and abusing her for days.

A family from Saxony-Anhalt wants to know whether the suspect has anything to do with the disappearance of their 5 year old daughter Inga who disappeared in 2015.

The suspect is in prison for child pornography and child abuse.

The two cases he is currently connected to have some parallels. Both girls were tiny, blonde and of a similar age. Both were alone for only a short period of time. Both vanished without a trace.

The criminal analyst says a big part of the motif is power.

The suspect lived in Portugal for years, his house is close to the hotel (2.5km, 5 mins by car) and he raped an old woman nearby.

The suspect earned money as a waiter, handyman and drug dealer.

In his house there’s a beam to which they claim he tied a girl and forced her to perform oral sex.

He was very mobile, broke into holiday apartments, stole petrol.

The criminal analyst says he probably broke into the apartment (close to the street, convenient) to steal sth and the abduction was a crime of opportunity.

A mobile phone that almost certainly belonged to the suspect was used during the time of Maddie’s disappearance. The day after the kidnapping the suspect deregisters his car.

The rape case with the old woman was unsolved till last year. The suspect came past her house on his way to the beach. He used a scimitar and an iron rod It took 14 years to solve this, the police found a hair on a duvet.

The criminal analyst says it’s about power so kids and an elderly woman are both weak and therefore a target. The suspect acted in his comfort zone, near where he lived.

2007 the suspect moves back to Germany. In Augsburg he lives in an RV or sleeps in the attic of a friend’s house. He’s on the road a lot and deals with drugs.

He moves to Hanover and then to Braunschweig where he opens a kiosk. He’s selling meat that he stole in supermarkets in the area. People describe him as captivating and dominant. He has a girlfriend who is 16 years younger than him.

He did not treat women well, if they did not do what he wanted, he beat and even strangled them.

While he was in Portugal he had a lot of cash from a break-in. He bought an old factory near Magdeburg from that money. He also potentially drove a dark transporter van, there is no image of this van though.

In 2015 there was a collision with that dark van at a motorway service station in Germany, police was not involved. The next day 70km from there little Inga disappeared from a secluded group of houses (therapy centrum, her family was visiting another family) in a forest. Coincidence? Authorities are looking into this again now.

Witnesses saw a dark blue van that little Inga might have climbed into. The suspect’s dark van has never been seen.

2 months after Inga’s disappearance Braunschweig police sent a dossier to the Stendal police that include the suspect’s name.

Chat protocol talking about wanting to abuse a little one, documenting the abuse but also disposing of the evidence. And he wants deeds not words.

The suspect is in prison for drug dealing.

 

[Boredofgrey]

I’ve just lurked here for now and my view is worthless and changes like the weather..........or it did till I read 2 things here-

1 - spinal fluid
2 - the sea bass diary entry

No more swaying - what the fuck did the McCsnns do to that little girl? We’ll never find out. They’ll never be closure.
This story is being trotted out again to deflect other news.

 

[Sara_M]

I read things like this and think ok, they’re hiding something. But...if they are why do they keep campaigning instead of disappearing into obscurity?

If we go with the theory they were involved, I'd say they keep campaigning for a few reasons

1, they're sure that, wherever they've put her, she wont be found (possibly the church burial/ cremation theory)

2, it looks more suspicious to give up

3, (and forgive how crass this sounds) it's a money maker.

"Madelines fund" had made millions!
It isnt a charity like some people think. It's a private company that was originally set up as a "fighting fund" to meet legal expenses (less than 2 weeks after she went missing!) In other words, to use for their defence. Kate's uncle said it himself on tv that it would be used for lots of things but "probably, mainly legal expenditure". Why did they suspect they needed that only 10 days in to the search, if they were so adamant about their innocence.

Because they will never ever get questioned, they are protected by powerful people who 'make the news' . Sonia poulton has said openly that journalists (including her) have been warned off the case. Told not to investigate any other scenario other than abduction. Also, when was the last time the parents have done any sort of meaningful plea or search? Other than flogging kates book or spending millions trying to sue anyone who disagrees with them? They dont say a word, their friends dont and never have made any attempt to campaign or speak up either and they are all parents of small kids. Where is the empathy? Every year a new suspect gets churned up and every year some press line from them gets churned out. Hardly keeping her in the spotlight.

They have never physically searched for their daughter. They also refused to a reenactment of that night, as they didnt see the value in it, or what it could achieve
What kind of a response is that??!! Even if it didnt turn up anything new, do it anyway so you can at least say you tried!
I'd be banging on every door, crawling down every road and would be BEGGING anyone to listen to me. Instead, the mccanns have the barriers up, literally refuse to answer questions and are more concerned with saving their own skin than focusing on what's truely important here, the recovery of their daughter. (Unless, of course, they know she wont be found )

 

[NoodlesToodles]

Nothing out the ordinary here. He is paid 6 figures+ from Uni of Leicester with his current research. I think it must be incredibly hard to be them, I don't think I could cope with everyone knowing who I am and the story of Madeleine especially as everyone has very strong feelings about the case. The twins are apparently aspiring athletes.

I was reading witness statements of by The Gaspers and the rest of the Tapas crew and I don't think Kate and Gerry were involved in any way. I think they were very naive about leaving their children and clearly from the way Kate reacted and words she was reported to be saying, she knew they shouldn't have been left alone. The Payne's bought their own nanny cam from home and set it up when they left so they could always hear/see the kids, why didn't everyone do that?
And don't even get me started on The Gaspers statement to Police!! Why isnt this front page news?! I think I'm inclined to believe in the sex ring conspiracy theory at the moment especially as people are comparing the sketches of the woman seen to Ghislane Maxwell. Epstein would have the resources to snatch a child and cover it up. However it seems like a reach to me, why a British tourist? Anyone could anticipate the media attention. I think David Payne needs to be investigated and a warrant shouldve been issued to check his home computers!!!

The gaspars reported this to the police immediately after they heard what happened, UK police suppressed it for months before handing it over when it was too late. The accounts of robberies are not corroborated and have more holes in them than swiss cheese. As for the statements of the tapas 9 that night.... well if you read all the files and come away thinking it's the truth then I dont think anything anyone says will make you believe otherwise. The statements change day to day, week to week. They eventually had to debunk the tanner sighting as being another tourist because it did not add up and was utter rubbish. They are far from naive parents on their first holiday. Stop taking everything in the media as truth, it is all fed to you by their PR machine. Its 13 years, madeliene is coming up for 18 so they need a way out. The german is just the latest scumbag in the crosshairs.

People cany comprehend how parents could do something like this, but it is possible... way more common than you think.

I just want one person who believes they are innocent to tell me why within 12-24 hours of maddie going missing..... when she could still be found alive..... did they have top crisis pr people by their side and the govs top media man advising them.... she had every chance of turning up, wht did they need them immediately? They took 3 weeks to get the 'last photo' out there, when it was sat on a digital camera in the flat? Useful for looking for a missing child no? So instead they put out posters of her at least a year younger?

It's an absolute farce and a disgrace to that poor little girl that this wax never investigated fully.

 

[Sara_M]

From what I remember, they let the Eddie, the cadaver dog in first. He alerted to 11 places. Then, on a separate day, Keela was brought in, so they worked independently and she alerted to 3 places of the 11 that cadaver was picked up.

I'm sure that in the early days, very early before the 'interference', the uk police and Portuguese were thinking along the same lines. It was a top intelligence/police official from the uk that suggested sending the dogs over.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You're right. The Portuguese saw through this from day 1. They said the room even appeared staged (take a look at Madelines neatly turned down bed for example), The Mccanns stories changed (as can be seen in their official statements) eg, shutters being "jemmied" open, until it was proven that was impossible and only Kate's fingerprints were on them etc, etc. Tapas crew having conflicting statements (all there in the files!)
Then in swoops in Clarence Mitchell, a senior media adviser to government and all sorts, and suddenly, the media are tearing the investigation to shreds. Anyone who dares question the Mccanns are getting sued!! The narrative of this tragedy has been hugely controlled and it sickens me that that little girl has been let down so badly.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

The day after Maddie was abducted, they put the twins back in the creche if you can believe it!!! You would think that with one missing child, you would investigate everyone the child came in to contact with especially the creche service who knew the routine of the kids during the day!! Not only did they put the twins in the creche but apparently most of their friends also put their kids there too! I know looking after kids is challenging especially under stressful circumstances but two adults in the group could've looked after all 7(?) children for a day whilst the rest did police interviews/searching!
All these friends are meant to be intellectual doctors and researchers! The mind honestly boggles.

It’s almost like they’re from a completely different planet to the rest of us. I don’t know anyone who would take their kids on holiday and not spend any time with them at all bar an hour here or there. Just so bloody odd.

 

[KateESJ]

Hopefully the twins have been put in some sort of therapy - I know the McCanns stated in an interview a few years ago that the twins are kept updated on all the cases proceedings but they're 15 now so will have social media and it is BRUTAL online when it comes to this case. So many conspiracies theories and so many angry people asking why this still has so much priority compared to other cases.

At 15 I'm sure they're curious. They must get asked about it at school. I'm sure if they haven't already googled, they will eventually.
I'm impressed they've been kept so private. I have to commend the parents for that.... have we even SEEN the twins since Maddie went missing? Knowing what british press can be like I'm really impressed by that. No clue how they managed it.