Posts on social media for birthdays also reach strangers.. it is no different. It is also a nice keepsake.
Posts on social media for birthdays also reach strangers.. it is no different. It is also a nice keepsake.But why? Why do birthdays and graduations need to be advertised in a newspaper? To a bunch of strangers.....?
I'm thinking something environmental in that area.If the stillbirths went up the same year the deaths went up, it sounds like the problem is more likely with the whole unit (including LL). I’m starting to think we’re never really going to know what’s happened in this case, whether LL did it or not. All of it feels so depressing and hopeless!
Right? The fact he didn't record it in the notes is odd, did he escalate it to another doctor do we know? As a junior doctor for something like this that he is now placing so much emphasis on he absolutely should have done.The doctor wrote “pale” but didn’t mention the never before seen rash.
Surely the fact of the child being pale would have felt less significant than a rash you were seeing for the first time
Like what? And what have you based that on? (Out of curiosity as I personally would’ve probably said more like lack of funding/staffing shortages which lead to unecessary deaths)I'm thinking something environmental in that area.
The significant rise in stillbirths at the same time as the rise is neonatal deaths assuming the huge rise in stillbirths from 2 to 10 is correct at around the same time is correct.Like what? And what have you based that on? (Out of curiosity as I personally would’ve probably said more like lack of funding/staffing shortages which lead to unecessary deaths)
Oh yes I see what you mean then, I suppose something teratogenic in the environment could defo cause that. Is there info on the number of babies born with birth defects over that period of time? I think that’d be the most telling thingThe significant rise in stillbirths at the same time as the rise is neonatal deaths assuming the huge rise in stillbirths from 2 to 10 is correct at around the same time is correct.
There were also collapses and deaths she isn't on trial for, I'd be keen to know if the charges she's up for were genuinely the only suspicious ones or whether they're just the ones she was present for and the others are similarly mysterious. There's a big difference imo of her being present at 100% of the suspicious events or her being in attendance at a percentage of them and so put forward on that basis and just for those. I really don't know at this point.As much as I think their evidence is crap so far, I really just can't shake the feeling she's guilty as sin and of so much more than this. For me it all just comes down to the sheer amount of cases, I can't bring myself to believe it's physically possible to be chance, regardless of how many hours she worked. Even if she worked 168 hours a week and tended to every single child, there shouldn't have been that many deaths.
*Also the garden thing tbf. You don't dig someone's personal garden up for no reason, it's not like if she did murder the babies, she was burying them there. So what the fuck else do they think she's done?
Do it matter? It was just what people did before social media. Family would read the local paper, see other birthday wishes etc and then make their own. It’s not a big deal. I’m sure famous people used to announce their engagements in The Times newspaper.But why? Why do birthdays and graduations need to be advertised in a newspaper? To a bunch of strangers.....?
It's an upper middle class thing. The upper class do it in The Times.But why? Why do birthdays and graduations need to be advertised in a newspaper? To a bunch of strangers.....?
I know this is a dull discussion point and I hate to keep at it but I always found it a really working class thing! Obviously I didn't read the times growing up but in our local newspaper it was the equivalent of chavvy mums posting their kids birthday/Christmas present piles all over fbIt's an upper middle class thing. The upper class do it in The Times.
Back in the pre digital days lots of people did it. I expect LL's parents are rather well to do.
I personally don’t think it’s massively relevant BUT there’s quite a lot of picture painting that all of us do on here so I don’t take your point as totally wild and I see where you’re coming from. So at risk of annoying people (sorry) and asking another question about this when I know people aren’t keen to speculate on this particular thing..But why? Why do birthdays and graduations need to be advertised in a newspaper? To a bunch of strangers.....?
Yes this though, everyone I know who does it is most definitely not middle class. I’m lower middle class and my parents would see it as something embarrassing to do!I know this is a dull discussion point and I hate to keep at it but I always found it a really working class thing! Obviously I didn't read the times growing up but in our local newspaper it was the equivalent of chavvy mums posting their kids birthday/Christmas present piles all over fbI'm sure that doesn't apply to everyone who used it but in the estate I grew up in, the bigger the announcement the bigger the chav
I think it started off posh then migrated to chavy, like burberry. Maybe how you view it is age related?Yes this though, everyone I know who does it is most definitely not middle class. I’m lower middle class and my parents would see it as something embarrassing to do!
Sorry if this has been flagged there are a lot of posts to get through. However, you are mistaken, children O and P died whilst letby was on the day shifts.This isn’t correct though
no babies died whilst she was on the day shift and deaths only occurred in 3 different months across a year period. The pattern narrative is false if you agree with pattern you have to concede that she got less efficient as a murder as time went on and that just doesn’t fit for me
I tried really really hard to show that is exactly what I wasn’t doing to be fair! I don’t see it as anything like proof of that whatsoever xFuck me we’ve reached an insane stage in these threads if we are equating an announcement about her birthday in the paper with a sign of her dodgy baby murdering character. Jesus wept man it was just a thing of the times. No different to Pam up the road posting on Facebook to wish her niece a good 18th. People like to publicise birthday wishes for many reasons. Partly just because they are proud of their loved one. It’s so unbelievably not relevant here.
Sometimes killers do get more sloppy as they go too, partially because they get more arrogant at having not been caught, so less careful. But equally some like the thrill of the chase and start trying to be caught. Not saying it’s a certainty ofcourse, but I dont think getting less ‘efficient’ is much of a sign of innocence personally.Sorry if this has been flagged there are a lot of posts to get through. However, you are mistaken, children O and P died whilst letby was on the day shifts.
“Letby was working the day shift on June 23 (2016) and was the designated nurse for Child O and P, in room 2, with another child”.
The prosecution say this "gave her an open opportunity to sabotage the babies".
Also where state she got less efficient as murder as time went on, I just think you need to look at this differently if she is guilty. The whole situation is a paradox imo. While yes you’d think it would be easy to murder a tiny defenceless baby. She is battling against the whole purpose of those babies being in a premature baby unit. The doctors and nurses are there for one reason only to keep these babies alive. If she is guilty, each attempt that occurred would have been instantly (we hope) rectified. She attempts, they stabilise the baby and the circle goes on. I don’t think it would be that easy, especially if she was trying to go unnoticed, she would have to be subtle and work around the very system she had been trained for. In reality I really don’t think it would have been easy at all. The pattern also did continue to days, there were many attempts during the day, how was she know which would be successful attempts and which wouldn’t when her colleagues are doing the one thing they have been trained for keeping these being alive ?
I think the evidence showing how badly run this ward was and how overstretched the staff were just gives me more reason to believe LL used that to her advantage. She knew people weren’t doing their notes properly/ being negligent so she could easily harm these poor babies without anyone really pointing fingers. She knew she could use it as a defence that the ward as a whole was failing.Right? The fact he didn't record it in the notes is odd, did he escalate it to another doctor do we know? As a junior doctor for something like this that he is now placing so much emphasis on he absolutely should have done.
I hope the defence have the information around any collapses/deaths that happened not only when she was off shift but any pattern change from days to nights. Of course the babies in this trial will follow that pattern because its her trial, but if the defence have information to challenge patterns, it would really sway people.Sorry if this has been flagged there are a lot of posts to get through. However, you are mistaken, children O and P died whilst letby was on the day shifts.
“Letby was working the day shift on June 23 (2016) and was the designated nurse for Child O and P, in room 2, with another child”.
The prosecution say this "gave her an open opportunity to sabotage the babies".
Also where you state she got less efficient as murder as time went on, I just think you need to look at this differently if she is guilty. The whole situation is a paradox imo. While yes you’d think it would be easy to murder a tiny defenceless baby. She is battling against the whole purpose of those babies being in a premature baby unit. The doctors and nurses are there for one reason only to keep these babies alive. If she is guilty, each attempt that occurred would have been instantly (we hope) rectified. She attempts, they stabilise the baby and the circle goes on. I don’t think it would be that easy, especially if she was trying to go unnoticed, she would have to be subtle and work around the very system she had been trained for. In reality I really don’t think it would have been easy at all. The pattern also did continue to days, there were many attempts during the day, how was she know which would be successful attempts and which wouldn’t when her colleagues are doing the one thing they have been trained for keeping these being alive ?
Its definitely needed. If there was a significant amount of babies who died when she was off shift then it starts to look a lot less suss but that being said, I don’t think she’d even be under such an extensive trial if that was the case.I hope the defence have the information around any collapses/deaths that happened not only when she was off shift but any pattern change from days to nights. Of course the babies in this trial will follow that pattern because its her trial, but if the defence have information to challenge patterns, it would really sway people.
For me the biggest thing keeping me thinking she could have done it is the pattern, but we've already seen thst there were deaths and collapses when she wasn't there. I'm sure we'll get that information in time.
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