Lucy Letby Case #8

[Emmelina Ball]

I keep seeing comments regarding a high stillbirth rate at this hospital around the same time. Does anyone know how much higher.

10% higher than other maternity units. It had one of the highest rate in the country.

Countess of Chester has one of highest baby death rates in country

Of the 7,000 births in the Besti Cadwaladr University Health Board area a year around 600 North Wales babies are delivered at the Chester hospital

www.dailypost.co.uk

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I keep seeing comments regarding a high stillbirth rate at this hospital around the same time. Does anyone know how much higher.

I would also like to know!
I'd also like to know if the same rise was seen in other hospitals at this time too.

A rise in stillbirths could have been a result of policy changes in relation to inductions and planned c-sections but would be interesting to see if there was another reason or connection to the premi babies unit.

 

[SwizzleMalarkey]

What makes you think they’ve not considered the possibility it was accidental?

ETA especially given it’s a known complication. Look how easily tattlers keep finding it.

I think they have considered it and they have decided that it’s more likely it was down to someone deliberately injecting air. The defence will be exploring the possibility of it being an accident and will question the experts on the likelihood of each scenario.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Anybody know if NEC and an air embolus could be confused is terms of how they appear during a post-mortem?

Sorry, I’m getting confused about the terms used in this forum.
To me an air embolus (or any embolus, eg fat, clotted blood) is air (or other substance) in the blood stream which is pumped around the system and can cause damage wherever it ends up and gets trapped.
I wouldn’t call air in the stomach, eg from air introduced via ng tube or just ‘gas’ or burps, an embolus.
Introducing air into the blood stream or into the stomach are to different methods with different consequences.
Am I the only one who is confused here?
A feed or drug can be given as a bolus (one off not by pump), but a bolus and embolus are different things.

 

[slingo16]

Sorry, I’m getting confused about the terms used in this forum.
To me an air embolus (or any embolus, eg fat, clotted blood) is air (or other substance) in the blood stream which is pumped around the system and can cause damage wherever it ends up and gets trapped.
I wouldn’t call air in the stomach, eg from air introduced via ng tube or just ‘gas’ or burps, an embolus.
Introducing air into the blood stream or into the stomach are to different methods with different consequences.
Am I the only one who is confused here?
A feed or drug can be given as a bolus (one off not by pump), but a bolus and embolus are different things.

Yeah you’re way smarter than me lol
But when they say air into the stomach you’re saying that wouldn’t go into the blood stream?
And therefore that’s not air embolus? Do I understand?

 

[avabella]

I keep seeing comments regarding a high stillbirth rate at this hospital around the same time. Does anyone know how much higher.

It went from 2 one year to 12 the following. There's a screenshot somewhere.

 

[Daisydunn15]

What makes you think they’ve not considered the possibility it was accidental?

ETA especially given it’s a known complication. Look how easily tattlers keep finding it.

Because if now, looking back, it's clear to these medical professionals that air embolism killed this child, why wouldn't they come to that conclusion at the time? Whether it was accidental or intention, the clinical presentation would be the same.
Lots of people have offered the explanation that they never would have considered the child was murdered so wouldn't have been looking for it, but an air embolism can happen accidentally with these procedures, even if they are rare.
It makes me question the medical experts who are sure this was the cause of death when there were medics involved in the resus and post mortem who didn't come to this conclusion.

 

[avabella]

Because if now, looking back, it's clear to these medical professionals that air embolism killed this child, why wouldn't they come to that conclusion at the time? Whether it was accidental or intention, the clinical presentation would be the same.
Lots of people have offered the explanation that they never would have considered the child was murdered so wouldn't have been looking for it, but an air embolism can happen accidentally with these procedures, even if they are rare.
It makes me question the medical experts who are sure this was the cause of death when there were medics involved in the resus and post mortem who didn't come to this conclusion.

This is key to me.

 

[MyWayOrTheHighway]

Because if now, looking back, it's clear to these medical professionals that air embolism killed this child, why wouldn't they come to that conclusion at the time? Whether it was accidental or intention, the clinical presentation would be the same.
Lots of people have offered the explanation that they never would have considered the child was murdered so wouldn't have been looking for it, but an air embolism can happen accidentally with these procedures, even if they are rare.
It makes me question the medical experts who are sure this was the cause of death when there were medics involved in the resus and post mortem who didn't come to this conclusion.

That’s what I’ve been thinking too

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Yeah you’re way smarter than me lol
But are you saying when they say air into the stomach wouldn’t go into the blood stream?

God, no I’m not!
Yes, I’m pretty certain that air going into the stomach cavity would not go into the bloodstream.
It would splint the diaphragm causing compromised breathing which could lead to respiratory arrest then cardiac arrest.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Yeah you’re way smarter than me lol
But when they say air into the stomach you’re saying that wouldn’t go into the blood stream?
And therefore that’s not air embolus? Do I understand?

Sorry only laughing at your first line NOT your actual question which I think is a good one!!

 

[MyWayOrTheHighway]

It went from 2 one year to 12 the following. There's a screenshot somewhere.

If the stillbirths went up the same year the deaths went up, it sounds like the problem is more likely with the whole unit (including LL). I’m starting to think we’re never really going to know what’s happened in this case, whether LL did it or not. All of it feels so depressing and hopeless!

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

If the stillbirths went up the same year the deaths went up, it sounds like the problem is more likely with the whole unit (including LL). I’m starting to think we’re never really going to know what’s happened in this case, whether LL did it or not. All of it feels so depressing and hopeless!

Those babies deserve proper justice. We need (or rather the jury) to be 90% certain at the end of the trial that they have the guilty party here or else it won't be true justice for them or their families.

Whenever I think too long about the reality of what's happened here a real sense of hopelessness sets in, I really hope the jury are looked after adequately throughout these 6 months.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Sorry only laughing at your first line NOT your actual question which I think is a good one!!

Thanks. And thank again

 

[jackolantern]

I hope they do have some seriously compelling evidence because as much as I do believe she's guilty, it's scary to think she could be sentenced to life based on the crap they've come out with so far.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Thanks. And thank again

Your welcome! I think your probably smarter than me too!! I love the questions you ask and reading the answers you get cause I wouldn't even think of asking them to begin with!

 

[MyWayOrTheHighway]

Those babies deserve proper justice. We need (or rather the jury) to be 90% certain at the end of the trial that they have the guilty party here or else it won't be true justice for them or their families.

Whenever I think too long about the reality of what's happened here a real sense of hopelessness sets in, I really hope the jury are looked after adequately throughout these 6 months.

I agree, what’s so sad and infuriating is that it looks like a lot of this was avoidable; either the staff should have raised concerns earlier about LL and taken action, or they should have had more staff and training to improve quality of care.

I honestly can’t imagine how the families feel, all of it just so horrendous no matter what the outcome is. I don’t think there will be true justice either way, I think we can only hope that the parents find some peace and that there’s going to be massive changes to the whole system as a result.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I hope they do have some seriously compelling evidence because as much as I do believe she's guilty, it's scary to think she could be sentenced to life based on the crap they've come out with so far.

Yup tit either way for the jury, go NG and risk letting a baby killer free, go G and risk ruining an innocent person's life. They are not in an enviable position right now, really hope the prosecution has more iron clad evidence coming their way or else this case could haunt them (and the parents) for life.

 

[MyWayOrTheHighway]

I hope they do have some seriously compelling evidence because as much as I do believe she's guilty, it's scary to think she could be sentenced to life based on the crap they've come out with so far.

So true! It’s terrifying

 

[candyland_]

The case has barely started yet.