Lucy Letby Case #76

[LittleMy]

OMG this bit is hilarious - you have to watch!! BNE pausing after the Beige home headline and then asking what’s worse, being referred to as a serial killer of babies which had been proved, “or being called beige” honestly don’t know how the court didn’t burst out laughing but maybe it’s a tattle thing. He’s so deadpan when he says it

Hahaha he’s so dry, I love him

How the hell did we get sassy Alan Carr on the podcast?

 

[Tofino]

“One article in the Daily Telegraph, item 34, recycling material from the Daily Mail podcast. So the telegraph copying the homework of the daily Mail”

Oh the shade
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Here’s where BNE mentions the New Yorker article

 

[Liverbird2003]

OMG this bit is hilarious - you have to watch!! BNE pausing after the Beige home headline and then asking what’s worse, being referred to as a serial killer of babies which had been proved, “or being called beige” honestly don’t know how the court didn’t burst out laughing but maybe it’s a tattle thing. He’s so deadpan when he says it


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No wonder the trial took ten months with all of BNE’s long pauses for dramatic effect

This is hilarious, the way he says beige when asking what is worse, being a serial killer of babies or being called beige.

 

[MavisBeacon]

I assume they have to go through the motions with the appeal because it's paid for. BM is a perfectly fine barrister, but it's telling that all they can go with is the media coverage affecting the trial. They didn't try to discredit the actual testimony of the witness (Dr J) or any of the evidence. Just that the papers were nasty about her and Ravi is a media bleep who loves being on the telly.

It's very hard to see where they will go with an application to the CCRC. Not only do they have to provide good fresh evidence of her innocence, there's still the question of all those dead and harmed babies. If not her, then how did they die? All of them, in such different ways? And how to they address the totality of the rest of the evidence (the shift patterns, the handover sheets, her creepy behaviour around the parents, the Facebook stalking, the cover-up by management etc etc). Truly, the inquiry makes it worse for her too - nobody is seriously suggesting that she couldn't have done it, just that nobody wanted to acknowledge it or properly investigate.

 

[Tofino]

This is interesting, BNE said in the retrial Letby could have called medical evidence to establish she was not guilty of the other 14 offences she was convicted of. And then there’s a bit of discussion about it with the appeal judge.

I hadn’t realised this was an opportunity open to her for the retrial. People (doubters) need to see this and ask themselves why she didn’t use this opportunity.

 

[MavisBeacon]

This is interesting, BNE said in the retrial Letby could have called medical evidence to establish she was not guilty of the other 14 offences she was convicted of. And then there’s a bit of discussion about it with the appeal judge.

I hadn’t realised this was an opportunity open to her for the retrial. People (doubters) need to see this and ask themselves why she didn’t use this opportunity.

And also ask why she chose not to call a medical expert who was willing to testify for the defence (Mick Hall) and instead only called a plumber!! The book makes clear it was her choice not to call Mike Hall.
No character witnesses, no Eirian Powell to say that Saint Lucy was the Creme de la Creme of nurses or Kathryn de Beger to say she was so distressed and picked on due to such terrible bad luck as to always be on shift when babies collapsed and died and for it to mysteriously stop when she wasn't there.

For someone who is supposedly innocent of every single accusation against her, she's not doing a very good job of showing it.

 

[Tofino]

Myers responds about BNE’s Beige house comments. It’s clearly a Daily Mail article as the price of the house is given



Myers should have brought up some of the #tattlehatemob comments. Far worse. He’s clearly failed her again

 

[Pulltheotherone]

So much shade being thrown from BNE

 

[Borbora]

Anyone that has seen LL in person... Does she look like the woman on BBC2 House of Games tonight?

She looks like the pap pictures and it's really throwing me off!

 

[Pulltheotherone]

I also love the way BNE say “ s p e c i e s “
So apt with her.

 

[Tofino]

This is where the judges refuse her permission and deliver the judgment for anyone not wanting to watch the whole thing

 

[PositivelyVonnegutesque]

Was Letby in the courtroom for this hearing does anyone know?

 

[MavisBeacon]

Was Letby in the courtroom for this hearing does anyone know?

I think she attended remotely?

 

[sebanna]

This is interesting, BNE said in the retrial Letby could have called medical evidence to establish she was not guilty of the other 14 offences she was convicted of. And then there’s a bit of discussion about it with the appeal judge.

I hadn’t realised this was an opportunity open to her for the retrial. People (doubters) need to see this and ask themselves why she didn’t use this opportunity.

Oh that's interesting. It's obviously very difficult to find a medical expert to establish she was not guilty.

 

[Baabaablacksheep320]

I loved that bit hes hilarious bet he’s come up with some corker one liners in his career. Can imagine him sniggering with his team about witty statements to insert into a murder trial

OMG this bit is hilarious - you have to watch!! BNE pausing after the Beige home headline and then asking what’s worse, being referred to as a serial killer of babies which had been proved, “or being called beige” honestly don’t know how the court didn’t burst out laughing but maybe it’s a tattle thing. He’s so deadpan when he says it


---
No wonder the trial took ten months with all of BNE’s long pauses for dramatic effect

 

[Refracton]

Didn't realise how slow BNE spoke. He definitely hwld court with his slowness.

 

[barber23]

I’m about 70% in. I think it’s an excellent book, really well written and researched.

I agree. It is well researched, balanced and fair.

 

[Thegirlwhouk]

Didn't realise how slow BNE spoke. He definitely hwld court with his slowness.

I thought this too, but he also has such gravitas that honestly I'd listen to any word he said.

In my line of work I often have to have difficult conversations with people and I think I'm going to try and channel a bit of BNE next time I do this. Slow, steady and with a real aura of authority. Perhaps I'll get myself a wig too

 

[Cack_Conroe]

I find it frustrating how Mike Hall keeps claiming that Letby didn't have a fair trial because he didnt have the opportunity to give evidence, when he admits that he couldn't find alternative explanations for some of the collapses. He must realise that she is charged with 7 murder charges, even if he agreed with the prosecutions case with just 1 of them, that is extremely damning and it would be too risky for the defence to call him up.

It is so arrogant and ignorant of him. It's typical of some egotistical doctors who think because they are experts in one thing, they're experts in everything. It is not for Michael Hall to say that Letby didn't have a fair trial, or that her defense was inadequate. He's not a legal expert.

He only disagreed with parts of the prosecution. Therefore, his testimony would have partially supported the prosecution and would have had the effect of absolutely confirming their medical evidence on some aspects. And as you say he had no adequate alternative explanations for other things, which would have led to him being shredded on the stand.

Lucy was in a position that even just one single conviction out of the 22 charges would have left her banged up for life, so it was absolutely vital for her defense to avoid agreeing with any of the prosecution's theories at all costs.

It was much safer for Ben Myers to be the one to present the defense's medical evidence rather than Michael Hall, in the form of cross-examining prosecution witnesses. This would prevent the defense's evidence being scrutinised, and allow BM to present even the more tenuous defense theories unreservedly, by presenting it as questions to consider rather than claimed facts to justify. It is a much less risky and more flexible way for Letby's team to present their side.

It's the height of arrogance to think that Michael Hall giving his tuppence worth on the stand could be the difference between a fair trial or not. He had a very important role of providing Ben Myers with the medical information necessary to properly scrutinise the prosecution's theories. He didn't need to take the stand and it was never guaranteed. He needs to accept his place, and get over his butthurt at not getting to be the star of the show.
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Was Letby in the courtroom for this hearing does anyone know?

She attended via video link.

This is interesting, BNE said in the retrial Letby could have called medical evidence to establish she was not guilty of the other 14 offences she was convicted of. And then there’s a bit of discussion about it with the appeal judge.

I hadn’t realised this was an opportunity open to her for the retrial. People (doubters) need to see this and ask themselves why she didn’t use this opportunity.

This was the bit that made Letby look pissed off!! It was her only facial expression during the entire hearing. I missed what BNE was getting at during this part - I couldn't figure out if he meant getting experts for her original trial or for her first leave to appeal this spring. It would have made sense why she was annoyed, because she did have medical experts for both.

Turns out it was something else entirely. It's pretty damning that she and her team chose not to challenge the original convictions with medical evidence at the retrial despite proclaiming being "not guilty of what I was found guilty of". I also don't understand why this annoyed her since it was actually true.

It's really interesting to see the recording of all this. Attending remotely, the court view is just one quarter of the screen, and fixed on the judges' bench. All the people are little tiny figures, so we didn't get to see the barristers at all. Ben Myers speaks very loudly, but it was difficult to follow what Nick Johnson was saying at times because he was much quieter.
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Anyone that has seen LL in person... Does she look like the woman on BBC2 House of Games tonight?

She looks like the pap pictures and it's really throwing me off!

She no longer resembles her own pap photos, so no! I assume you mean this lady? She does look like a younger Letby with her hair and mouth.

 

[Tofino]

This was the bit that made Letby look pissed off!! It was her only facial expression during the entire hearing. I missed what BNE was getting at during this part - I couldn't figure out if he meant getting experts for her original trial or for her first leave to appeal this spring. It would have made sense why she was annoyed, because she did have medical experts for both.

Turns out it was something else entirely. It's pretty damning that she and her team chose not to challenge the original convictions with medical evidence at the retrial despite proclaiming being "not guilty of what I was found guilty of". I also don't understand why this annoyed her since it was actually true.

It definitely surprised me they could have challenged the original convictions in the retrial. I’d love to know more about the law around this when her appeal was denied. Was it because the jury were allowed to be formally told of her convictions so she had a right to prove she didn’t? There was discussion about the burden of proof being on her now.

Could they have presented the evidence they tried to get in for the appeal? So called Dr Lee after all?

I know we all know why she had nothing to present but I wish someone in the media would pick up on this huge ‘opportunity’ she had 9 months after her first convictions and she did nothing about it. How many opportunities does one need to present her own medical evidence - original trial, appeal hearings, retrial, another appeal hearing.

I have to say whilst I found the whole ‘beige house’ thing funny, on the whole I’m so enraged that there was essentially a court hearing for her to argue the media were hostile and vitriolic towards her after the convictions. Of course they bloody were and it’s utterly deserved.

I know Myers was just doing his job and I’m glad her appeals have been exhausted now but it’s just the audacity of complaining about being called evil when you’ve been convicted of murdering tiny newborn babies.