Lucy Letby Case #74

[Futtrit]

I’m sure they ask themselves if they could have done anything differently but they have no idea how many babies they did actually go on to save by their persistence. undoubtedly they did

I'm wanting a T shirt with "I Brearey" on the front and "Jayaram rules" on the back.


Eta Actually "Ravi rules" would be better

 

[ClaraPlum]

Urgh her parents seem vile. I’m starting to see where she got her smug, condescending nature from.

 

[tay65]

No I think it’s actually a baby not on the indictment so just goes to show really she gave absolutely no care to these babies.

I think it was a baby she was looking after in one of the nursery rooms. She was constantly texting one of the off duty nurses constantly over a long period of time during which she had recorded having given a feed. NJ showed that she had been texting whilst giving the feed and it required two hands to do the feed (as confirmed by Letby herself). Letby said something along the lines of "you think I pushed it through" and I think NJ said something along the lines of "I do". He was demonstrating her texting in a clinical area as well as texting whilst giving a feed. Letby had previously said she didn't use her phone in a clinical area so he was showing that she hadn't been truthful.

 

[MmmB777]

I also think some get a thrill from reliving their crimes.

100% think she enjoyed seeing the parents

 

[MmmB777]

I find the almost informal tone of the conversations of the medics in their police interviews really compelling. It’s funny how just in snippets you can hear the human and the natural feel to their statements and how weird and unnatural Letby’s are in comparison.
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I’m just at poor baby I and oof Powell is going to take a battering isn’t she. Crikey . “Her response sets the tone of what was to follow”. Shameful.

 

[Tofino]

Sophie Ellis on baby C: not for one moment did I expect him to die

 

[Tofino]

Evidence suggesting Lucy Letby tampered with breathing tubes 'not cre…

archived 16 Sep 2024 17:23:41 UTC

archive.ph

Sarah Knapton at it again do they know how ridiculous they all sound when no evidence has even been presented? How can they question and dismiss evidence that’s not even been made public yet. Are they that desperate?

BIB - that is the whole point of it being raised in the inquiry, if they bothered to read the transcript. But bothering to read things doesn’t seem to be their priority

However, neonatologists and statisticians have written to Lady Justice Thirlwall questioning the data.

In a letter seen by The Telegraph, the experts write: “We do not find the assertion credible and are writing to express our deep concerns over the figures presented to the Thirlwall Inquiry with regards to extubation rates.

“The apparent careless presentation of unsubstantiated and uncorroborated figures is likely to create unnecessary distress and harm, and generate additional worry, for example, among parents of babies who were treated at Liverpool Women’s Hospital.

“If data quoted is subsequently shown to be robust, reliable and accurate, we question why such a drastic increase went unnoticed and unaddressed for nearly a decade?

“The failure to raise this issue would in that case raise important questions and have profound implications for Liverpool Women’s Hospital (LWH).”


Signatories to the letter include Dr Neil Aiton, a consultant neonatologist and lecturer at Brighton and Sussex Medical School, and Dr Svilena Dimitrova, consultant neonatologist and specialist adviser for the Care Quality Commission (CQC), as well as a medical reviewer for the review of maternity services at the Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust.

While the inquiry heard that tubes were dislodged on 40 per cent of Letby’s shifts, other scientists [on Twitter - this is the one I posted the other day] have pointed out that there is extensive scientific literature suggesting that breathing tubes can become dislodged in newborns between one per cent and 80 per cent of the time.

Lucy Easthope, professor in practice of risk and hazard at the University of Durham, also warned that there was a national product recall of breathing tubes for newborns in 2012.

Writing on X, she said: “Is it correct to say that there was an inexplicable rise in dislodged neonatal endotracheal tubes in the year that we saw national major product recall in neonatal endotracheal tubes?

“I expect the inquiry will cover this MHRA alert tomorrow.” [no they wont. Because if you bothered to read you would know it’s the parents giving evidence the next two weeks]


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However, a paper by Newcastle University in 2016 found that dislodged breathing tubes were common in premature babies – happening an average of six times for infants born at 25 weeks and under, and two times for preterm babies above 25 weeks gestation.

Conflating occurrences per baby with shifts again.

Fag packet maths. Correct me if I’ve missed anything.

A 25 week baby is in hospital on average 107 days.
shifts are 12hrs - baby sees 2 shifts per day
107 days x 2 shifts = 214 shifts per stay.
Six dislodged tubes in 214 shifts = 2.8% rate of occurrence. Far closer to 1% than 40% ffs!

 

[Hazara04]

I feel like this email is a really interesting window into her personality. Like you said, WHO the hell would send an email like this. It's not for her to send and the whole tone of it is weird. Absolutely 100% power play and God complex at play here. She's loving it.

The absolute brass neck of her to send an email like that. I found it jaw dropping that she had the nerve to send it. I can't believe nobody pulled her up on it.

 

[ClaraPlum]

I’m just remembering when we all thought Dr NoName would look like Curly Watts or Mr Bean and then we found out we weren’t actually that far off

 

[Apostate]

"I have spent the past month researching Lucy's innocence"

and she has the audacity to complain about "confirming a bias"

 

[MmmB777]

Hmm I’m sure Letby tells this story very differently? After the parents of E&F had left, they brought a hamper to the unit as a thank you.

doesn’t Letby text someone saying they brought a hamper and that Mother E couldn’t stop thanking her and hugging her?? Sure I have a memory of her texting that to someone.
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I also remember us wondering from the reporting at the time whether Letby had got consent to do the memory box for Child E and she hadn’t. She cut his hair and put the bloody blankets in the box with no consultation with the parents which always rang alarm bells for me.
This is also really shocking it sounds like child E was left in the cot with baby F over night after he had died and so she had to come down and see him there?? And guess who’s orchestrated that? Fucking evil bitch. Absolutely horrendous to think she had that little baby that she had tortured to death to herself all night

 

[IcanSpellBéchamel]

More likely the two lasses went white with astonishment and fear that some creepy fucker wants to get a serial killer back on the streets.

 

[AllieBee]

Omg i feel happy but so bloody sad for those families. Happy that it's all being exposed and those poor bloody consultants who so bravely stood their ground have come out of this so well but so bloody sad that she could and should have been stopped the minute concerns were raised. And a tea party? I have no words. Just thank the fucking lord the consultants prevented her coming back. Also thank you so much for keeping the thread updated guys, I've not been able to listen in at all today just dipped in here on my breaks.

 

[Cack_Conroe]

We didn't hear much from the live reporting about Baby J, but I was there for the cross examination for this one and it was blatantly obvious Letby was the only one in the room for the second pair of collapses.

Reading through the transcripts for her parents evidence was enlightening. Baby J was a surviving twin who'd lost her sibling in the womb, but now we know this twin was horrifically lost at a late stage during a failed surgical intervention. The mother then had to carry and birth the deceased twin with survivor Baby J.

From what we know of Letby's desired victims, Baby J would have been absolutely irresistible to her: she was a twin, she had a conspicuous medical issue that could be utilised to portray her as vulnerable, she had already overcome adversity to survive, and her parents had already gone through terrible grief and hardship. In addition, there is an aspect of the baby's name that I believe would have made her uniquely attractive to Letby.

But the parents were absolute warriors in advocating for their daughter. The nurses made it very clear that they considered them nothing more than interfering PITAs, but J's parents stoically persisted in fighting for their daughter to receive the correct care, and to receive her food and medications. This focus would likely have made it less convenient for Letby to attack. Given how Baby J was her ideal victim in every possible way, I think the parents' constant diligence probably saved her life. Ironically, they wouldn't have needed to do this if the quality of care wasn't so appalling in the first place.

Telegraph reply to my complaint. It seems they still want to ignore Letby was designated nurse because mum's testimony doesn't identify her as being in the room at the time they walked in. Funny how they are happy to accept a mother's memory when it doesn't incriminate Lucy, eh?

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Re: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/23/lucy-letby-hospital-baby-faeces-inquiry/

Spoiler: Cunty manipulative response from Telegraph

Thank you for contacting The Telegraph concerning the above-referenced article.

Your complaint is under Clause 1 of the IPSO Editor's Code (Accuracy). You believe our article is inaccurate and misleading because we do not say that Lucy Letby was the designated nurse caring for Baby J on the day that the baby was found covered in faeces. You cite an article in the Guardian as evidence that The Telegraph article is inaccurate.

Both the mother and father of Baby J have given evidence to the Thirlwall inquiry in respect of this incident. This is the evidence they gave on 23rd September 2024:

Mother's evidence:
Q. Right, so tell us what you found when you came
in on the 15th?
MOTHER J: Yes, so I walked into Room 2 and our
daughter was in her hot cot at the time and she was just
in a small towel, just put across her bottom area, and
just over the stoma so the stoma bag wasn't on there and
just sort of loosely covered is the way I would describe
it and she has a Broviac line in place, so I just took
one look at her and was just -- well, I was just
disgusted really to see her in that situation and also
incredibly saddened being a mum and thinking: what's
happened here, and there were two nurses in the room at
the time and they could see that she was in that
situation and I just said, you know -- I think one of
them was pregnant and I knew the other one had children
and I said "You are mums, what would you do in this
situation? Why has she been left like this?" They
didn't really engage in discussion and we made
a complaint on that day. I think my husband then came
in shortly afterwards, saw her in that situation as well
and then we took the address they gave us --
Q. When you say made a complaint, Father J, who
did you complain to or speak to about it or was it you,
Mother J?
MOTHER J: I spoke to one of the nurses and said
that we wanted to see one of the Consultants about that
situation and that it was just unacceptable.
Q. Did you speak to a Consultant?
MOTHER J: Yes.
Q. Who did you speak with?
MOTHER J: Dr Saladi.

Father's evidence:
The first time we asked who had left our daughter in a towel, this faeces covered towel with nothing else on her. We never got an answer at the time. We never got an answer afterwards. It wasn't until our solicitor looked at the records that she discovered that the designated nurse on that shift was in fact Lucy Letby who was responsible for looking after our daughter when she was left in this particular state, so that was a big shock to us. It is something we have only found out recently.

As is clear from the transcript, the mother's evidence was her first hand account; the father's evidence is hearsay. We know from the mother's first hand witness account (which I have highlighted in bold for ease of reference) that neither of the nurses present could have been Lucy Letby as she is not a mother and was not pregnant. We also know from the transcript of the evidence given to Inquiry that the parents of Child J arrived at the unit at 8am and that there were no reported issues with the stoma bags:

Q. Back in paragraph 81 of your statement, in relation to your daughter being found in the towel, you say: "There was no record of Letby or other staff having issues with bags on the shift, however, on 15 December, at the handover from Letby's shifts, when I came in at around 8 am and found Child J in her cot ..." That's when you have given the evidence earlier about what you found

At the trial of Lucy Letby the jury heard that the handover from night shifts is at 7.30am. In other words, when the parents arrived at 8am and two nurses were present neither of those nurses was Lucy Letby.

Given the above, we believe the journalist has been scrupulously careful in her reporting and the use of the phrase 'Lucy Letby's unit' was accurate in all the circumstances. We therefore find no breach of Clause 1 of the IPSO Editor's Code. We do however thank you for taking the time to raise your concerns with us.

Kind regards

Yours sincerely


Editorial Legal & Compliance
Telegraph Media Group

You could reply to this disputing their response, and saying that you will escalate this to IPSO on the following grounds:

• That your complaint was that they ignored the fact that Baby J's designated nurse, during the shift she was left with her stoma bag off and wrapped in a feces-covered towel, was confirmed to be Lucy Letby.
• The paper ignored this because it makes serial killer Letby look bad, and the paper has an agenda for promoting conspiracy theories that she is innocent.
• The designated nurse has primary responsibility for a particular baby's care.
• As we know from the trial, nursery rooms housed several babies, each being tended to by their designated nurse. The other two nurses are irrelevant to this complaint because they were not Baby J's designated nurse.
• Baby J's medical records showing that Letby was the designated nurse during this shift is not hearsay.
• Father J's evidence is not "hearsay" and the particular parent who first found the baby is not relevant as the medical records state that Letby was the designated nurse that shift. Witness accounts of other nurses are irrelevant to this complaint.
• The only way this testimony can be considered "hearsay" is if the Telegraph is disputing that this incident with the stoma removed happened at all. Nobody else has disputed this incident and indeed defense barrister Ben Myers referenced this incident when cross-examining the mother here: Chester Standard, 10/02/23 2:30pm.
• They failed to quote other testimony during the inquiry about the incident, which further refers to Letby being responsible (link: transcript 23/09/24) including: Mother J: "certainly after finding our daughter wrapped in a towel with her stoma bag off and then now that we know that the nurse at the time was Letby, that was most certainly a missed opportunity to investigate or begin an investigation into opportunities" (page 66)

 

[Tofino]

Don't follow these threads, but walk by the Town Hall on my way to work most days; this morning there were about 8 or 9 journalists outside as well as a large police van and a few police outside the entrance to the TH, too.

For context, a few weeks ago there were anti-immigration riots happening at the same spot and an hour before there were zero police presence. I wonder if they were expecting some kind of unrest today.

Given it’s been reported a witness has already been physically attacked by a Letby supporter then yes I presume they are being cautious about safety for those attending.

 

[tay65]

Like that Mark added Dr Sandie Bohin, is a currently practicing neonalist, as there has been a lot of criticism in the media of Dr Evans for being retired.

What the simps fail to mention is that Dr Hall who Myers used was also retired. It doesn't mean they are unsuitable as witnesses.
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What the simps fail to mention is that Dr Hall who Myers used was also retired. It doesn't mean they are unsuitable as witnesses.

I realise Dr Hall didn't give evidence but Myers used him to throughout the trial.

 

[Tofino]

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...epth-failures-at-lucy-letby-hospital-revealed

Another infuriating article which sensationally makes points not actually backed up by evidence.

Jane Hawdon was asked to review the notes but I thought she said she didn't have time to throughly review the notes.

Jane ( the statistics lady from the podcast) seems to not actually know the triplets were almost 34wks and over 2 Kg, born in good condition and shared a placenta with their surviving triplet.

Jane Hutton asking questions that have been answered in the trial


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https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...epth-failures-at-lucy-letby-hospital-revealed

Another infuriating article which sensationally makes points not actually backed up by evidence.

Jane Hawdon was asked to review the notes but I thought she said she didn't have time to throughly review the notes.

Jane ( the statistics lady from the podcast) seems to not actually know the triplets were almost 34wks and over 2 Kg, born in good condition and shared a placenta with their surviving triplet.

Re: Jane Hawdon. Even Lucy’s defence didn’t want to use her ‘expertise’ in court. I expect there were significant problems with her assessments of the babies.

 

[Tofino]

No mention of Kathryn Bergerac’s involvement today.
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God I missed that bit! Fuuuuck. Did her mum really do that? Where did you hear that?

They attended at least two separate meetings!!

December 2016:

February 2017:

 

[sebanna]

I think it was mmmbop that pointed this bit out the other day and I just want to revisit it because something is suspsicious and doesn’t sit right with me.

Baby E died at 1.40am. At some point the parents left him to go back to their unit. Letby writes at 8.21am parents resident on unit and wish to be left alone.
parents come back in the morning (time not specified) to find their dead baby still in the incubator and letby says ‘you haven’t told us to take him’.
Questions really and I’m not sure they can be answered - why weren’t they offered the family room after he died, we know it happened with baby c
When they left to go back to their room, what was said about would happen with baby e’s little body
Why would any nurse say ‘you haven’t told us to take him’
But why were other staff not questioning why he was left in his incubator for hours after the parent had left? Or am I naive in how quickly the hospital can take a baby away?
if Lucy manipulated this entire situation for some sadistic thrill then how did she get away with it?

View attachment 3188788View attachment 3188789View attachment 3188790

I agree that baby E's mum's evidence is very strong.

The fact that Baby E's mum immediately noticed the time error and then contacted her mobile phone provider for evidence speaks volumes. She would have visited at 9pm with the milk seen the blood and then rang her husband. If she had been visiting at 10pm she would have stayed on NNU and the midwife would not have been needed to bring her down. The crime scene 2 youtube video was really good at explaining the strength of her evidence.
The way the family was treated after baby E's death was horrific. While a terrible time, it was the only opportunity the parents had to spend private time with their son but Letby took that. How those poor parents cope with the fact that both babies were with Letby and she was plotting to attack baby F, I don't know.
The hospital must have a policy for supporting bereaved parents but it can't have been followed here. I wonder if Lucy took control if the situation and the other staff left her to it.

 

[craig84]

I know we all said it as we followed the trial that she had harmed before Baby A, but hearing about the incidents at LWH just show that she had started long before. I hope to god she wasn’t left alone with any patient at Alder Hay when she was swanning about there after Drnoname.
Do we think the police will comment on operation hummingbird during the enquiry, as they have been investigating for a few years now. They didn’t say if there was any deaths at LWH though.
I really hope the sick bitch isn’t being allowed out of her cell and given special privileges to listen to this , I can see her getting off on it all.

There were deaths at LWH whilst LL was on shift there. When she gave evidence in the first trial she said at LWH they would give her another ICU baby not long after a baby died and got upset when COCH would not do the same.