Lucy Letby Case #7

[Rosie878]

I thought that too. If I've had a tough shift, sometimes it is difficult going back and seeing the parents again. Bereavement care can be hard and if you are someone who overthinks every interaction it can become draining very quickly. Constantly thinking about what to say, how to phrase it and whether or not it is appropriate. I think this thread alone highlights how different everyone is and there is no 'one fits all' in terms of bereavement care. The training I have received focuses heavily on communication and compassion. I'd personally always enter the room with a smile, not a beaming, teethy grin, but a warm smile as opposed to being completely expressionless. I can understand her texts to her colleague and the apprehension over seeing the parents of baby A the next day. I'm a worrier and have felt the same on a few different occasions, sat at home before a shift ruminating. However, once I've got into work, I've felt better about it and got on with my shift. Which again, is why I don't find it that strange that she spoke to a colleague about not wanting to care for baby A's sibling, but then doing so once on shift.

Agree on this, particularly considering her age at the time. Even if you were amazing at bereavement care I'm just not sure a lot of parents would particularly want it from a young girl. I imagine there are some aspects of nursing that you just grow into.

I know when I had my children the care during pregnancy I just found better from midwives who were older and a bit more experienced. I remember a younger midwife being really shocked I could only eat beige food in the first trimester bless her. However, during labour/delivery the younger ones shone - really on it and did a fab job with all the aftercare, stitches etc

 

[Lucymyers]

Making the baby’s death about her, not the parents. Making out the bath the baby had with her was better than the one they’re having with their dead baby

She was present for the babies first bath she didnt bath them i dont think

 

[Bexx77]

Okay, if that is the case then I'll accept it's not quite as bad, but I still think it is an utterly senseless thing to see a grieving mother bathing her dead baby and remind her about how much they baby loved the bath when they were living.

She could have been trying to offer the mum comfort that she was taking part in and giving the baby something which she enjoyed in life during her very very short life. As someone said context is really vital. I suspect in reality and from the flavour of the evidence so far, she said it in malice for her own smug reasons but dressed it up as comfort for the mum.
*Malice isn’t the right word but it’s too early to explain.

 

[Daisydunn15]

Only getting feeds? I would think these babies required feeds or they’d be dead too. The ‘precious time and resources’ these babies needed would be much less than the sicker babies.

Yeah, people get frustrated about this lots. However important feed might be, maybe she didn't consider it to need the level of intervention their ward provided. A&E nurses get frustrated when they're stretched and someone comes in with a problem which they don't feel is enough of an emergency. I've worked on wards for very unwell psychiatric patients and been frustrated that someone has been admitted and taken a bed (when we have so few) who could have been managed at home. They may take less resources than other patients but when you're already so stretched it can be frustrating.
Just trying to understand her thinking other than immediately assuming everything she thinks/says points to evil murderer, not saying I agree with her

 

[Tofino]

I have thought this too, that it could have been an accidental overdose. In the opening statements it seems they skimmed over the fact the baby had been prescribed insulin and it wasn't mentioned again. Hopefully more info comes to light on that prescription.

In regards to the breast milk and TPN... for many reasons, preterms need to build their tolerance to milk. Some can't start on 'full' feeds right away. So a tiny amount is introduced, as small as 0.5ml, and the rest of the required nutrition is given from TPN fluids. It's also important to start some milk to prime the gut, the smallest amount will do. It is my guess they started milk as soon as it became available, started basic fluids, then switched to the bespoke TPN when it arrived from pharmacy.

Insulin is always prescribed as a tiny dose for neonates... they're tiny after all. It is diluted into another fluid, usually saline. Any miscalculation in that preparation will lead to an overdose. The questions are, who prepared the infusion? And was the overdose accidental or deliberate...

My understanding is that the baby would have responded quickly to a single overdose but he was given five shots of dextrose and the problem continued throughout the day. So the suggestion is that the only way he could have been given a continuous supply of inslulin is via the TPN bag. The defence have not even disagreed with it, basically just denied it was Lucy.

Professor Peter Hindmarsh said the insulin "had to have gone in through the TPN bag" as the the hypoglycaemia "persisted for such a long time" despite five injections of 10% dextrose.

"There can be no doubt that somebody contaminated that original bag with insulin.

"Because of that...the problem continued through the day."

In a June 2019 police interview, Letby agreed with the idea that insulin would not be administered accidentally.

 

[Milktray]

Literally the story of my life at work, I think I say something cringe/awkward that makes my colleagues look at me like I have two heads at least once a week, spent so many evenings cringing at myself

I must say the live reporting so far has been a bit crap. I’m sure it’s an incredibly hard job with the amount of information being presented, but Mark really need to do a bit better, it’s too brief and lacks context. I’ve been spoilt by Dave Jagger during Star Hobson’s case.

Urgh, at the end of last week, I thought hevwas doing a good job reporting...but this week has been hard work. If only we can get our Dave seconded to Manchester.

Luckily, I have to work today, so I won't get too frustrated on 'trial watch'. To be honest, I'm fed up with the few people on here that want to cause arguments by picking apart other people's comments, opinions or suggestions. If they don't want to discuss both sides, then maybe the thread nor tattle is right for them. A trial is made up of 2 sides.
Everything prosecution will say, defence will rip to shreds and likewise with whatever defence say.

The thread will end up getting shut down. The admins threatened it before with other cases. And they won't hesitate to do it with this one.

Anyway, welcome to all the new members!

 

[avabella]

I think critically analysing her watching a TV PROGRAMME with exactly the same method of killing babies she has been accused of is not really in the same vein as victim blaming by saying a bereaved mother is misremembering.

Only one of the above has been entered into as 'agreed facts' by both the prosecution AND defence. She did watch a TV programme and the prosecution felt it relevant to the timeline of the crime. So they have critically analysed it already to decide it's relevant.

Not sure I've seen where the prosecution or defence have said the mother misremembered as an agreed fact? Or in fact mentioned it anywhere?

But she didn’t watch the programme with exactly the same method did she? Someone found a trailer that was apparently shown on the date she watched the programme of babies who were born with hernias. And the pros haven’t included that info so the only way anyone here is discussing it is because someone deep delved onto itv player or wherever. The Jury won’t have that connection at all.

 

[Daisydunn15]

Urgh, at the end of last week, I thought hevwas doing a good job reporting...but this week has been hard work. If only we can get our Dave seconded to Manchester.

Luckily, I have to work today, so I won't get too frustrated on 'trial watch'. To be honest, I'm fed up with the few people on here that want to cause arguments by picking apart other people's comments, opinions or suggestions. If they don't want to discuss both sides, then maybe the thread nor tattle is right for them. A trial is made up of 2 sides.
Everything prosecution will say, defence will rip to shreds and likewise with whatever defence say.

I'm on maternity leave so I've got nothing to do but trial watch

 

[Milktray]

I'm on maternity leave so I've got nothing to do but trial watch

Ooh lucky you. I only work part time, so it's not that bad. I'm only on an 8-12, so trial watch will recommence at 1

 

[freaknasty]

But she didn’t watch the programme with exactly the same method did she? Someone found a trailer that was apparently shown on the date she watched the programme of babies who were born with hernias. And the pros haven’t included that info so the only way anyone here is discussing it is because someone deep delved onto itv player or wherever. The Jury won’t have that connection at all.

They might (strong might) mention it when the prosecution is giving actual evidence, they’re still just reading out facts the defence and prosecution agree on and whether she watched that clip is just speculation so wouldn’t be included here x

Right now they just agree that she sent a message saying she was watching the programme

 

[SamPam]

I think the programme will be mentioned by the prosecution, otherwise why mention it at all?

 

[Daisydunn15]

I think the programme will be mentioned by the prosecution, otherwise why mention it at all?

Maybe it'll be part of the narrative that she loves the drama of the job and be used to explain why shes guilty, rather than claiming she picked up tips.

 

[wishiniwasskinny]

The mother’s misinterpreted and now she’s misremembered.. are there no lengths people won’t go to! So disrespectful imo.

My interpretation would be that sometimes an incident happens and someone behave a bit odd or makes you uncomfortable and you might notice it in the moment and then it passes you by. But then if later someone informs you of something terrible or bizarre about that person you suddenly recollect the uncomfortable moment and are like “oh yeah I remember when she/he did this”… and it suddenly “fits” with what you’re being told. Again perfectly human to do. Mother would she’s been asked by police about what happened, perhaps they even probed about LLs behaviour around the incident and she remembered her discomfort.

 

[Laura8868]

One thing that has struck me is that her barrister is not offering a defence of mental illness or negligence. Surely if he did think she had done it or there was no reasonable doubt she was in one way or another responsible wouldn't he have gone down that route? Though I must say the wording he uses to describe Lucy did throw me abit.

Definitely she was assessed by forensic psychiatrist- he/she must decided she isn't suffering any mental condition/problem which could possibly affect her behaviour.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Ooh lucky you. I only work part time, so it's not that bad. I'm only on an 8-12, so trial watch will recommence at 1

That's the dream!! Would love to work part time!!!

 

[Borntorun]

I was in a&e the other night. I needed an injectable medication that was in the locked pharmacy and had to wait for the on call pharmacist to come in and get it for me. Is this common?

So the ward will have their own stock of commonly used medicines, these are kept in a locked drug room, inside a locked cupboard. What’s in here will change slightly ward by ward, eg maternity will have tonnes of epidurals, nicu would have things babies use like caffeine, geriatric wards probably have a lot of blood pressure and water tablets.

What you’re talking about with needing an on call pharmacist, is where whatever you need isn’t in one of the ward cupboards. Either because they’ve used all their supply or because it’s something unusual. So an on call pharmacist would have to come in and get it out of the pharmacy. Normal hospital staff can’t just help themselves to whatever they like out of the pharmacy. Theoretically they can only get to whatever they have in their own ward cupboards, and even then there’s stock checks etc

 

[LittleMy]

Agree on this, particularly considering her age at the time. Even if you were amazing at bereavement care I'm just not sure a lot of parents would particularly want it from a young girl. I imagine there are some aspects of nursing that you just grow into.

I know when I had my children the care during pregnancy I just found better from midwives who were older and a bit more experienced. I remember a younger midwife being really shocked I could only eat beige food in the first trimester bless her. However, during labour/delivery the younger ones shone - really on it and did a fab job with all the aftercare, stitches etc

I had the opposite experience when I had my first baby after a traumatic labour and birth. The older midwives were shocking and made me feel like a stupid little girl who had no clue about my own baby. It really messed up my head which was all over the place at the time and I would call my OH up crying my eyes out to come take me home. I ended up really depressed. The younger midwives were lovely and considerate throughout our stay in hospital.

 

[Daisydunn15]

So the ward will have their own stock of commonly used medicines, these are kept in a locked drug room, inside a locked cupboard. What’s in here will change slightly ward by ward, eg maternity will have tonnes of epidurals, nicu would have things babies use like caffeine, geriatric wards probably have a lot of blood pressure and water tablets.

What you’re talking about with needing an on call pharmacist, is where whatever you need isn’t in one of the ward cupboards. Either because they’ve used all their supply or because it’s something unusual. So an on call pharmacist would have to come in and get it out of the pharmacy. Normal hospital staff can’t just help themselves to whatever they like out of the pharmacy. Theoretically they can only get to whatever they have in their own ward cupboards, and even then there’s stock checks etc

I've worked on wards with omnicells, which you need to log into and state which medication you're getting out for each patient, they have them on lots of busy wards and would make it very difficult to steal from. A drug cupboard has checks but there's no saying who had the keys at any one time. Mind even with the omnicell there was a separate fridge which didn't lock and this had all the insulin in.
You'd think with the number of meds errors there'd be better systems and more consistency across hospitals. Most errors are just human error but it could also prevent some of the more malicious incidents.

 

[Notworthy]

I think the reporting on the trial needs to improve we’ve got 6 months of this and If all the papers can’t get the same story straight how on earth is it coming across to the jury

Seriously! The jury aren't relying on media reports. People need to realise hpw essily thet are msnipulated by the media
This is why we are shocked by some of the verdicts, because we get the media slanted version, not the complete picture the jury gets.

 

[OH.FFS]

Todays coverage link : https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/23060130.live-lucy-letby-trial-wednesday-october-19/