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All the more reason to knuckle down and get it finished then.
Aye well at least we have football to take our minds off it now doc eh?not all of us, thanks for the reminder
CongratulationsFound the source of my nausea. Baby number 5 incomingin shock+++++++
They won't be paid if they don't sit I don't think but how are you supposed to dip in and out of work for 10 months? I think it's testament to the juries dedication , you can be medically deemed not fit quite easily. Also if the jury drops below 9 the trial collapses so they are showing dedication towards the justice system.
People want the pitchforks out but that's not how it works , you have to decide if the prosecution proved their case not if you think they did it if that makes sense.
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Unpopular opinion but I also feel quite bad for the jury!
I think it’s clear they’re taking this extremely seriously, otherwise they’d just come back with a verdict. We have to remember these people will either not have been working for 10 months or will have been working every hour they’re not in court. If they’ve been off, they’re very unlikely being paid which must be causing some financial stress and if they are working all the other hours, then god knows how they’re managing stress. It would be very easy for them just to rush a verdict to get back to their lives and no one would ever know because we’re not allowed to know what goes on in the jury room.
I’d personally not be surprised if it’s taking around a day per baby to deliberate, if they’re going through it thoroughly (which it seems they are) given the massive amount of evidence they’ve heard per baby. It’s a highly complex case. I think it’s still premature to accept a majority if the rules favour unanimous (I’m in Scotland and we have majority verdicts from the outset so it’s a bit different here, but if the rule is unanimous then the jury should be given plenty time to get there in this case). Again, it would be easy to just come back with a verdict as there’d be no grounds for a mistrial as no one knows what happens in there, but it is so important for both LL and the parents involved that the jury get this right. I’m 100% convinced she’s guilty, but whatever they come back with I’m confident they’ll have thoroughly considered their verdict.
As for the time off/next week etc, we don’t know what’s going on in their lives. Yes, it’s important we get a verdict for the families, but is that more important than someone having to attend an important medical appointment for them (or even their children) that they might have been waiting months for? Or forcing a jury member to sit through a day of really important evidence when they’re unwell and can’t concentrate on it? Jury members or their children etc might have been waiting six months for a medical appointment that they now have to rearrange and potentially wait another six months for. Those are just pure speculation on things that might have been going on but I’m confident Justice Goss will be weighing up the interests of everyone involved before deciding whether court has days off etc and that he’s making fair decisions.
I don’t think the jury members will be taking the piss asking for time off for hair appointments etc. They’ll all be wanting to get back to work/normal life as much as anyone else and I really don’t think people who have committed 10 months of their lives to this trial would take the piss so near the end.
Just my take on it but I personally am glad they’re taking their time and hopefully deliver a really secure verdict!
I think it’s clear they’re taking this extremely seriously, otherwise they’d just come back with a verdict. We have to remember these people will either not have been working for 10 months or will have been working every hour they’re not in court. If they’ve been off, they’re very unlikely being paid which must be causing some financial stress and if they are working all the other hours, then god knows how they’re managing stress. It would be very easy for them just to rush a verdict to get back to their lives and no one would ever know because we’re not allowed to know what goes on in the jury room.
I’d personally not be surprised if it’s taking around a day per baby to deliberate, if they’re going through it thoroughly (which it seems they are) given the massive amount of evidence they’ve heard per baby. It’s a highly complex case. I think it’s still premature to accept a majority if the rules favour unanimous (I’m in Scotland and we have majority verdicts from the outset so it’s a bit different here, but if the rule is unanimous then the jury should be given plenty time to get there in this case). Again, it would be easy to just come back with a verdict as there’d be no grounds for a mistrial as no one knows what happens in there, but it is so important for both LL and the parents involved that the jury get this right. I’m 100% convinced she’s guilty, but whatever they come back with I’m confident they’ll have thoroughly considered their verdict.
As for the time off/next week etc, we don’t know what’s going on in their lives. Yes, it’s important we get a verdict for the families, but is that more important than someone having to attend an important medical appointment for them (or even their children) that they might have been waiting months for? Or forcing a jury member to sit through a day of really important evidence when they’re unwell and can’t concentrate on it? Jury members or their children etc might have been waiting six months for a medical appointment that they now have to rearrange and potentially wait another six months for. Those are just pure speculation on things that might have been going on but I’m confident Justice Goss will be weighing up the interests of everyone involved before deciding whether court has days off etc and that he’s making fair decisions.
I don’t think the jury members will be taking the piss asking for time off for hair appointments etc. They’ll all be wanting to get back to work/normal life as much as anyone else and I really don’t think people who have committed 10 months of their lives to this trial would take the piss so near the end.
Just my take on it but I personally am glad they’re taking their time and hopefully deliver a really secure verdict!
Some don't agree so are hashing it out if it's majority NG do you agree with the G person saying never mind I'll go with NG to go home early?
Have loads of sympathy for the Jury and always have. Know very well what it’s like living dictated to by the whole shebang and it’s pretty hellish at times. Example, parent took a phone call whilst round at mine the other day, unexpected trial start date (they’re supposed to be retired 
) “could you do such and such dates”
The reply “no, I’ve given you my non-availability and I’m on a holiday then, one that should have happened in June and quite frankly I’d rather be dead or in prison”.
I don’t think anyone needs to be told off for venting frustrations. The issue with the latest development is that, without JG telling them “court is not sitting on xyz date” they have somehow arrived at the point that they had a week off next week and booked things! Then rather than automatically think right that’s those cancelled, they’ve requested to keep them. It’s hard to understand what those appointments could be that couldn’t happen on a weekend or when this is over. Everything will be excruciatingly hard for them by this point but anything essential like a health appointment would be agreed in advance, any pinnacle life events too. Maybe it’s days out with grandchildren, visiting family.. so many perfectly reasonable things but quite frankly, this is the situation they’re in and if they can keep momentum, as JG has said is so important, they can get this over with properly.
) “could you do such and such dates” The reply “no, I’ve given you my non-availability and I’m on a holiday then, one that should have happened in June and quite frankly I’d rather be dead or in prison”.
I don’t think anyone needs to be told off for venting frustrations. The issue with the latest development is that, without JG telling them “court is not sitting on xyz date” they have somehow arrived at the point that they had a week off next week and booked things! Then rather than automatically think right that’s those cancelled, they’ve requested to keep them. It’s hard to understand what those appointments could be that couldn’t happen on a weekend or when this is over. Everything will be excruciatingly hard for them by this point but anything essential like a health appointment would be agreed in advance, any pinnacle life events too. Maybe it’s days out with grandchildren, visiting family.. so many perfectly reasonable things but quite frankly, this is the situation they’re in and if they can keep momentum, as JG has said is so important, they can get this over with properly.
If some decisions have already been made, and I'm sure by now they have, then they will have.Imagine being that juror that was dismissed, knowing all this information, been in all the deliberations and now can’t talk about it and can’t even contribute to the decision anymore
I have confidence the 7 murder charges are already in the bag. Fingers crossed the majority of the attempted murder ones are too.
I don't think so, I think it would be a domino effect if the insulin guilty the rest of the of the murders and attempted would be G. If the insulin is NG the rest will be. If they didn't have the insulin case it would never have passed the threshold for CPS.
Each case has to pass on its own merit and I personally think there's lots of very damning evidence in all of the cases. But I do totally agree that I don't think there can be much agreement yet.
If their child had an apportionment that nobody else could take them to, they would have notified court of that as soon as they got the appointment through not take advantage of a week they thought was free. It very much sounds like, thinking they had a week off, they took advantage of it and got things booked, I can sympathise with that. But without hearing JG say explicitly they had that time off, they shouldn’t have done that imo. Maybe it’s something as simple as an admin error but there is very little at this point that would have me requesting to keep an appointment rather than get the trial done. If you were a single parent with very little or no childcare options, you probably would have requested not to be on this trial from the start. I would also be expecting “the system” to prefer to cover childcare at this point.
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And I think this is probably why you’ve popped back to have a gripe with everybody today isn’t it
Is that him saying she is a serial killer then? As people obsessed with them and hashtagging her name seems he is
No it's why it took the CPS I think 3 goes to charge her because they didnt have it. The presence of the exogenous insulin has sealed the deal for me as guilty. The defence didn't have any alternative theories. If she gets found NG it's the hospitals fault for not securing extensive post mortem tests in unexpected deaths. Hopefully procedures will change after this.
Congratulations @gigilouxx
So is Gods effectively saying he won’t take a majority at any point? What if they can’t all agree?And what happens in the event of a retrial? Letby killed herself by taking the stand, can she refuse to do so in the event of a retrial? Because to me it was her appalling performance that stuck the proverbial fork in her. I mean, it’s been obvious she’s G long before any of that, but had she not taken the stand it would’ve helped her in my view.
So is Gods effectively saying he won’t take a majority at any point? What if they can’t all agree?And what happens in the event of a retrial? Letby killed herself by taking the stand, can she refuse to do so in the event of a retrial? Because to me it was her appalling performance that stuck the proverbial fork in her. I mean, it’s been obvious she’s G long before any of that, but had she not taken the stand it would’ve helped her in my view.
Nope it's because I have a jobIf their child had an apportionment that nobody else could take them to, they would have notified court of that as soon as they got the appointment through not take advantage of a week they thought was free. It very much sounds like, thinking they had a week off, they took advantage of it and got things booked, I can sympathise with that. But without hearing JG say explicitly they had that time off, they shouldn’t have done that imo. Maybe it’s something as simple as an admin error but there is very little at this point that would have me requesting to keep an appointment rather than get the trial done. If you were a single parent with very little or no childcare options, you probably would have requested not to be on this trial from the start. I would also be expecting “the system” to prefer to cover childcare at this point.
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And I think this is probably why you’ve popped back to have a gripe with everybody today isn’t it
I think she's guilty cause of the insulin the defence didn't offer any alternative theories or evidence. Let's hope the jury agree.I looked into what happens with evidence if there is a retrial a while ago and I think she would have to take the stand again and also the original evidence she gave can still be used (so if she changed a response, prosecution can use the last trial to question it).
But what about selecting the new jury? I don’t imagine any of us could be on it because we’ve followed this so closely. How can they be sure a jury hasn’t done prior research?
What a bleepin tit show.
Ooh yes. You just saved my day for a few reasonsAye well at least we have football to take our minds off it now doc eh?
I forgot it starts tonight as we don’t play until Sunday
Please can we not start falling out over all this? I don’t think I could face this thread going back to the way it was in the early days. 
It’s been frustrating for everyone involved and for us watching, but hopefully a verdict will soon be reached.
It’s been frustrating for everyone involved and for us watching, but hopefully a verdict will soon be reached.
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