Lucy Letby case #28

[MmmB777]

wow didn’t know half of female serial killers were nurses or in healthcare!!

Yep. Importantly though, despite nursing roles being overwhelmingly done by females, it’s still male nurses that do this more than female ones! So basically, men are still the biggest bastards

 

[FastAndTheCurious7]

Ben mate, please stop trying to paint Lucy as a nice Fella. Social people who have cats can still be dicks

 

[Danica Catrick]

I'm with you 100% and my thinking has not changed since the beginning. Even during the opening statement I was very concerned about how robust the prosecution's case was and it has transpired that it is even flimsier than I initially thought. There is no evidence that any of these children were murdered, let alone by her, and I feel she has been made a scapegoat for a poorly performing unit. I rarely post here any more as frankly I cannot abide the nonsensical and purely imagined insights into her character by people who know absolutely nothing about her, but seem to think they can tell a lot by looking at pictures of inherited wallpaper.

This is where I was when I first started following this case. I was worried that there wasn't the evidence to conclusively prove one way or the other, and that either a murderer would go free or an innocent woman would have suspicion hanging over her for the rest of her life.

I was on the fence for a long time, but her behaviour around Dr Noname at times made me suspicious (e.g. when he's stabilised a baby, leaves to get a coffee with a female colleague, and the baby unexpectedly collapses again...). The triplets were what sealed it for me though. She's on holiday. No deaths on the ward. She returns and there are two deaths in two days, and she's involved in both babies care.

Personally I enjoy making fun of her imagined character, we need something to lighten the mood or we'd just be depressed by the horror of it all.
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The hospital have soooo much to answer for. I’m only guessing here but I think it was a combination of a few things that made them not do anything sooner.

These are just my thoughts btw -
- it was chaotic & had many issues but no one wanted to actually take any responsibility & get some checks done through fear of being thrown under the bus & losing their own jobs (senior management)

- they couldn’t afford to take a staff member, who worked every shift under the sun of an already understaffed unit, off because of a “hunch”

- insulin: as bad as it sounds, it wasn’t taken further as the baby survived. Let’s just push it under the carpet so the parents don’t find out & put a claim in.

- no one there wanted to think they had a serial killer running about

- also, it was being raised. But higher up the chain weren’t listening. In hindsight, should those drs have bypassed the chain of command & got the police involved? Yes. Why didn’t they do that? Well they probably thought it was accidental so no police but the need to retrain her etc

- I believe (I might be wrong) that a lot of the babies were dealt with by different drs so it took some time to actually make a connection. But even when that happened, it appeared the higher management wanted to safe face & like some people have expressed on here who don’t actually know LL in the slightest, they didn’t want to believe one of their “best nurses” was at fault

Fantastic post @IGiveUp22. You've summed up a lot of thoughts I've had more clearly and succinctly than I ever could

 

[LittleMy]

I wouldn’t take it too personally. If people want to go back and forward with their opinion then fair enough. It baffles me too, but that’s just how it goes on these kinds of threads. It was the same on other trial threads. Not everyone will agree or see eye to eye, and that’s fine. Would be a nightmare if we were all on the jury (luckily we’re not). I do think a lot of people really just don’t want her to be guilty and that’s affecting their ability to connect the dots (my opinion, don’t shoot me for it). Whatever the case, this is the place for that kind of discussion.

 

[Tofino]

so many ‘WTF’ moments here.

9 searches in 9 minutes. Either she was looking for something very specific and quick glance didn’t find it or they all had their profiles locked down (nothing to see here).

If you are being nosy and there are posts public you would linger a lot longer reading through or looking at photos. (I do anyway )

if profiles were not public and she couldn’t see anything then it’s a bit persistent to keep going back to check.

And now we have TWO LWH families she’s been looking up really worried for those families.

 

[F1Grid]

Looking at this I wonder if they’re going to try and argue that she was just incompetent, rather than these being deliberate. They’re outlining that she’s really recently qualified for the intensive care stuff in April and it was said earlier that she did long line training in May. Deaths started in june.

Doesn’t hold up for the insulin babies though.

 

[DellaC]

This what your imaging

Well the menopause had dried up my old minge but I can report the drought is now over

 

[Tofino]

Wow, the day I decide to actually work it all goes off.

Read through Chester Standard and as predicted the crocodile tears are out. She know it's her only hope for an acquittal that some of the jury will feel sorry for her.

This bit to me just proves she's a liar - "She does not recall ever having an argument with anyone about where she should be working."

It's in her sodding messages that she kicked off about it!!! If someone is willing to lie about something so minor under oath, I cannot believe anything else they say.

She can never recall the things that make her look awful.

 

[MmmB777]

I don’t think foul play has been proven by any stretch. I find it really difficult to believe she just chopped and changed her method for no apparent reason and was still able to barely leave a trace, I think some of what they allege surely couldn’t have been initially missed. The insulin is a great example tbh, because as I’ve said before they had the same evidence back then and they addressed the situation one way or another at that time. They definitely didn’t think anybody deliberately harmed that child, just given the setting (hospital constantly monitoring the victims) and amount of charges I really would expect a little bit more in terms of medical evidence

She chopped and changed so that things would be believable and she wouldn’t get caught. She literally basically instantly killed baby A, how many times could she do that even with many differing people on shift? She chopped and changed in order to play on conditions babies had. And I expect because she was having fun.
So you put more weight on how they interpreted the insulin than the actual results that show somebody was poisoned?

Her actions weren’t exactly missed though were they? You’ve heard that by baby D, Dr B was actively trying to establish what had been happening and actively tried to engage with management about the correlation of Letby being around all these babies which was noticed by a colleague from Liverpool women’s. His concerns were repeatedly dismissed even after the deaths of two healthy triplets, the second of which had had absolutely every thing scrutinised and monitored after the sudden death of his brother. And yes you’re right, they had all those concerns before even realising somebody had been poisoning babies with insulin.
What do you think caught Beverley Allitt out on the insulin charges she faced, that is different to what is catching Letby out? All Shipman’s deaths of old ladies at home when he was there were treated as non suspicious by huge amounts of people for years. Although many had an inclining and it was practically a joke, so many of these killers even have nicknames related to how much death seems to surround them! Cullen’s victims were accepted natural deaths until people persistently said it was poisoning. Even in The Nurse, the doctor was more ready to accept that a man had committed suicide by raiding the drugs cabinet at the hospital than accept a nurse had given a lethal dose of non prescribed diazepam.

 

[bassetbumpkin]

Poor Les Dennis was married to Amanda Holden, hasn't he suffered enough?

 

[yellowmellow]

Thing is, all the people who are saying “it’s only circumstantial evidence” well, circumstantial evidence is evidence. If members of my family kept dropping dead in the presence of Les Dennis across a period of 6 months I’d have some pretty fucking big questions for Les Dennis. I wouldn’t just brush it off as a coincidence that I’d lost 3 aunts, a cat and my grandfather when Les came to my house. Oooh my gut says it’s Les Dennis but let’s invite him over one last time to see if he knocks off anyone else.

Edit: On a more serious note I genuinely believe she is guilty. I’ve always had the “gut” feeling but that means nothing, the more this trial has gone on the more sickened I’ve become.

What has Les Dennis done to you to bring him into this

On a serious note, completely agree with your logic/way of explaining.

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

It’s such an emotional case and of course we want to hear all opinions but when people just ignore 7 months worth of evidence it just silences the baby’s … they had no voice then and just dismissing everything we have heard to date takes their voice away again.

 

[gigilouxx]

See for me there’s too many incidents and not enough commotion from her for it to be incompetence and mistakes. You know when you’ve made a mistake, if she’d accidentally done all this and her intentions were as clear cut as she says then the first mistake she made she would’ve tried to rectify it immediately. You know when you’ve fucked up, you’d speak to someone, you’d tell someone, you wouldn’t sit there making mistake after mistake, all of which results in poor babies passing away/almost passing away. She’s a stupid cunt she’s full of piss and wind

 

[sophiavictoria]

Bit random, sorry, but this is just what's on my mind - the way Lucy behaves reminds me of an extreme form of 'grief porn'. By overstepping with the parents of the deceased babies, watching them as they grieved and overstaying her welcome, stalking their Facebook pages to find posts about them etc. I feel as though she had some sort of obsession with watching them grieve and being involved with that. 'Grief porn' has been described as 'fascination with other people's disasters and a sentimentalism that is out of place', she reminds me of some sort or voyeur.

 

[DoseofReality]

The poor families in court today

 

[CanIGoBacktoBed]

I'm expecting a full-on 'collapse' under cross examination. She won't be able to control any part of it and we all know how narcs respond to that.
I think that's when we will see a whole range of emotions and I'm betting a quid she will 'faint' or become 'unwell'.

 

[Tofino]

I think sometimes it’s just the frustration coming out of people who have followed this really close, looked into these types of murders to then hear “there is no evidence” which is absolutely fair btw if you think that. But then I think the frustration comes in “what more do you want” for a murder like this. They’re not the same as your typical murder unfortunately - not as cut and dry.

I do like hearing other views. I find it fascinating that we all haven’t come to the same conclusions & I do wonder if any of us solid guilty parties will waver as the defence continue - I’ve already said I’m a firm guilty but if the medical evidence the defence present is enough I could sway however I’m VERY doubtful of that right now. It would take a lot

ETA - I’m also not envious of the jury but I do think they’ll have much more detailed info (possibly that answers a lot of the unsure/NG camps stuff) to make their judgement on

For me to have reasonable doubt at this stage I would want defence to present medical expert evidence that the poor care a specific baby received (ie 4 hours without fluids for baby A) would cause the collapse and death of the baby. Because this is the suggestion when people say she’s being scapegoated or the hospital was failing and that’s why the babies died. I need evidence of that being a possible cause of death specifically to have doubt over the cause of death.

Ben Myers and Lucy Letby saying ‘understaffed, busy, more complex needs than normal, doctors didn’t come quick enough’ isn’t going to cut it. I’m not going to ignore actual tangible medical evidence from the prosecution for general suggestions from the defence.

and even if they have an expert, I will still be weighing that up over 5/6 experts from prosecution.

I would also have reasonable doubt if there was evidence that Lucy can’t possibly have been present. But that’s definitely not going to happen as I think she’s admitted she was there for them all.

I’m really not bothered about how many other people she searched on Facebook - in the same way it’s not a smoking gun, it’s also not enough for me to have doubt over other evidence.

 

[DellaC]

With all the moving could she have put the sheets in the keep box as she was going to get rid of them properly but just left them

No.

She decanted and hid in her wardrobe at her parents. Why would she do that rather than shove them in her Morries bag and take them into work to dispose of them in the correct manner?

They were stored in the shredders box. Why remove a shredder and replace it with confidential information and then hide it in a wardrobe in a home you don't live in?

 

[MmmB777]

This is absolutely bizarre - are we really supposed to believe that someone who was highly competent and qualified also didn't realise she had multiple 'work bags' full of handover notes she was not supposed to take home? She's acting like it was just harmless pieces of paper she collected, not confidential hospital property.

Also if she really was a hoarder BM would have produced photos of bags and bags of stuff spanning decades. If the best he can come up with is files and folders of training notes - she is clearly capable of both organising paperwork and disposing of it. Also the shredder, no way did she forget she had it - because if she was a hoarder, buying a shredder and using it on bank statements would be a huge big deal wouldn't it!

Personally find it quite gross that these things are in any way normalised. If you do things like this, write kids names in your diary and keep their medical records and search parents constantly - you’re gross and in the wrong job
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No.

She decanted and hid in her wardrobe at her parents. Why would she do that rather than shove them in her Morries bag and take them into work to dispose of them in the correct manner?

They were stored in the shredders box. Why remove a shredder and replace it with confidential information and then hide it in a wardrobe in a home you don't live in?

As if you’re using a bag for your lunch and everything else and seeing countless medical documents and not noticing. Or not thinking..Oh yeah I’m at work. I could get rid of these in the correct way! Her claim is they were in her pocket.. so she’s taking them out and collecting them in these bags then? It’s all just utter bollocks

 

[MmmB777]

I 100% will not be told by you or anyone else where I can put a smiley face. I love a smile face

When someone says a person accused of murdering multiple babies can't be guilty because they like cats, they look nice or have been set up by the hospital I will laugh but not because I take it personally because I find it ridiculous.

Yesterday there was an influx of goaders, those who don't care or even follow the case but popped on to cause drama and they succeeded.

One person actually came on, doesn't follow any more threads, doesn't contribute but clearly reads everything and left a ridiculously shitty comment that was meant to cause trouble. So I left a laughing emoji and pressed the ignore button, they got their response but they won't get another.

Today is a new day and I am going to rise above those fishing and goading, I'm just going to ignore.

I genuinely do not give a toss if people are on the fence, I admire it and I respect that choice completely. But I do give a toss about people coming in trying to create drama in what is a fantastic community full of all kinds of weird and wonderful people with varying backgrounds and a wealth of knowledge.

Live footage of me living through the “you haven’t even heard the defence ” months on this thread

anyway @DellaC tell us about your minge or bowel movements or something to lighten the mood please for the love of god
I was enjoying all the Noname potential lookalikes does anyone think there’s a chance prosecution can bring him back I want to him to tell his side of his story on the meals, walks and the “fizzling out” which sounds a lot better than realised I’m probably a psychopath