Lucy Letby Case #24

[Treesy19]

Bare with me…So this morning I was browsing Instagram as you do and there was a woman who gave birth to (non-identical) triplets and she lasted to 35w and they were 4,5, and 5 lbs. Each had their own placenta. So similar weights to O and P two weeks further along. It just reiterates how utterly strong O and P will have been, who reached over 4 lbs at 33weeks - via a one-placenta pregnancy!! That placenta got three babies over the 4 lb mark, seven weeks early. The odds were in their favour fgs.
Anyway, I just thought I’d add that. It stopped me in my tracks.

Added to that of course, 33weekers have a 99% chance of survival. Or ducking 0% when Lucy Letby is orbiting.
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All this time these poor nurses and doctors are having to come to court for, time away from their patients travelling to Manchester and back, hours in court. Waiting around and in the box. Multiple times. Police interviews. How’s that looking for your rotas Karen Rees? If you’re reading this, Karen Rees. You and your management wanted Letby back on the ward just a month later, seems to me looking into the repeated doctors’ pleas would be hassle and work for you. Hassle to juggle the unit. Not worked out has it.

*still fuming at that woman*

 

[OldBlondie]

Guess for me I’ve no doubts it was LL, and even if you concede yes there were some mistakes made and the unit wasn’t perfect (I don’t think you’d find one that is tbh tho), the babies still did NOT respond the way they should have even if extra doses or whatever were given. None of these babies responded to resus how they should if it was simply an extra dose of adrenaline. What @Haveyouanywool said in a post earlier about this was spot on, also I’m sure if there was a chance the adrenaline or breathing support would have affected the outcome @docmum who knows her shizz would have pointed out/agreed with. Medically these babies did not respond how they should have done. No one is saying the unit did not make mistakes, but they cannot solely be the cause of these unexpected/unusual collapses. IMO (and a few others) the failings on the unit only helped LL fly under the radar for as long as she did. Both things are possible, not one or the other. I also really look forward to scrutinising the defence’s theories and witnesses to the same degree as the prosecutions have been subjected to. And just saw so far there has been 124 witnesses for the prosecution with more still to come, that’s wow really. Wonder how many the defence will call, guarantee it’ll be no where near as many as that. 124 gives a scale of how just how big this whole investigation has been

 

[Miscanthus]

I can understand that the consultants didn't see the whole picture of what was happening but surely the nurses did. It seems like a fairly small unit that had to work as a team and cover for each other. I know they were on different shifts but they all knew each other. Surely they chatted about the deaths, who was on duty etc and wondered if LL was involved?

 

[OldBlondie]

have a 99% chance of survival.

Over 99% doctor SB said
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I can understand that the consultants didn't see the whole picture of what was happening but surely the nurses did. It seems like a fairly small unit that had to work as a team and cover for each other. I know they were on different shifts but they all knew each other. Surely they chatted about the deaths, who was on duty etc and wondered if LL was involved?

We have deffo heard from over 20 nurses so far. So don’t think there was only a few nurses. Seems different teams of different staff on a different times unfortunately

 

[Tofino]

I can understand why BM asks the questions about possible mistakes or sub-optimal care but what I don’t understand is when a medical expert says words to the effect of ‘but that wouldn’t cause the collapse / death’ why it still plants some doubt?

If he comes with his own expert that contradicts their answer then fair enough, but BM asking a question isn’t evidence in itself. It’s the answer they give to him that is evidence. Hope that makes sense!

 

[Haveyouanywool]

 

[Okgolightly]

I can understand that the consultants didn't see the whole picture of what was happening but surely the nurses did. It seems like a fairly small unit that had to work as a team and cover for each other. I know they were on different shifts but they all knew each other. Surely they chatted about the deaths, who was on duty etc and wondered if LL was involved?

I wonder if it was one of those things where they were all having similar thoughts but it was a big thing to actually voice out loud and they felt like, if they did, there as no going back from it? Not an excuse at all but I’m imagining if it’s one of your colleagues, who you know and work with day in and day out, you’re not going to want to assume they are a baby murderer.

 

[Daisydunn15]

I can understand why BM asks the questions about possible mistakes or sub-optimal care but what I don’t understand is when a medical expert says words to the effect of ‘but that wouldn’t cause the collapse / death’ why it still plants some doubt?

If he comes with his own expert that contradicts their answer then fair enough, but BM asking a question isn’t evidence in itself. It’s the answer they give to him that is evidence. Hope that makes sense!

For me it plants doubt because we don't know the extent of the sub optimal care. People usually don't document poor care, and they're not likely to admit to it or even remember years down the line. The poor care that we do have evidence of makes me think that there was much more going on we have no evidence of, cutting corners, poor hygiene, not completing procedures correctly, not working according to policy - all things we already have evidence of but to what extent were they happening. The experts commenting on the care won't know the extent of it either, so their views on to what extent it contributes to collapses may be blinkered.
I'd also expect him to produce his own expert to back the doubt he's trying to create, I don't think the small seeds of doubt will be enough on their own.

 

[wrightagain84]

Just browsed the thread. Interesting and many valid points.
Learned dr gibbs has since retired. What a way to spend your last years there with whats happened. After a life time of care. Poor chap. But if anyone was going to stand up for the unit, i didn't doubt for one minute it would of been him.

Im far from a medical expert, but premies rarely cry. Infact I never heard one cry there. They struggle because they hate the tubes and make a little squeaky noise. But never a full blown scream? Or even a cry like a new born. Lungs ain't developed. So something must of been done, very bad for a premie to cry?

I believe she did it. I stand by the doctors.

 

[stardust1]

Guess for me I’ve no doubts it was LL, and even if you concede yes there were some mistakes made and the unit wasn’t perfect (I don’t think you’d find one that is tbh tho), the babies still did NOT respond the way they should have even if extra doses or whatever were given. None of these babies responded to resus how they should if it was simply an extra dose of adrenaline. What @Haveyouanywool said in a post earlier about this was spot on, also I’m sure if there was a chance the adrenaline or breathing support would have affected the outcome @docmum who knows her shizz would have pointed out/agreed with. Medically these babies did not respond how they should have done. No one is saying the unit did not make mistakes, but they cannot solely be the cause of these unexpected/unusual collapses. IMO (and a few others) the failings on the unit only helped LL fly under the radar for as long as she did. Both things are possible, not one or the other. I also really look forward to scrutinising the defence’s theories and witnesses to the same degree as the prosecutions have been subjected to. And just saw so far there has been 124 witnesses for the prosecution with more still to come, that’s wow really. Wonder how many the defence will call, guarantee it’ll be no where near as many as that. 124 gives a scale of how just how big this whole investigation has been

just to add to this I think you are right about not finding a perfect hospital. The hosp my son was born in at the NICU before transfer was rated best CQC score you can get and there was still major mistakes made that if they weren’t short staffed he could have gone without some problems he faced.

 

[tay65]

The man himself

He does look a lovely man who I imagine will be popular with the staff.

 

[MmmB777]

I can understand why BM asks the questions about possible mistakes or sub-optimal care but what I don’t understand is when a medical expert says words to the effect of ‘but that wouldn’t cause the collapse / death’ why it still plants some doubt?

If he comes with his own expert that contradicts their answer then fair enough, but BM asking a question isn’t evidence in itself. It’s the answer they give to him that is evidence. Hope that makes sense!

Exactly this. The fact remains that Letby’s presence just before the issue for baby is real, it is documented by her and largely accepted by her in police interview. She is the one to have just done something, almost every time. It was exactly the same defence for Beverly A, that the hospital was rit (it was and was understaffed chronically) but there was poison for patients not prescribed it, suspect medical trajectory eg cardiac arrest to fine, she was found alone, had just “treated” patient, unusual amount and unexpected deaths for one nurse, she had medical notes of patients at home. Yes we know she was absolutely more mental because we’re privy to that info. But plenty of people didn’t see her that way, including parents and the staff at the hospital, people in her village etc. some of whom still don’t think she’s guilty because she was a babysitter

 

[DellaC]

My lad had heart surgery at Alder Hey. The ICU was amazing, utterly amazing. The surgeons and their expertise was second to none. All the staff including the domestics were approachable and professional.

The ward my boy was placed on before discharge was suboptimal. The first night we were there they forgot his pain meds because they were getting ready for a night out (walking round the ward in rollers etc I kid you not), I witnessed them lying to a parent about the care they'd given her baby(pretended they'd been with him all night when infact it had been 10 mins before mum arrived), it was just a cliquey ward, unorganised and chaotic. If anyone had wanted to cause harm to the patients they'd have more opportunity to do so there than on the ICU that was run like clockwork.

The environment was definitely a factor in LLs ability to murder so many babies over the period of time, it was her perfect playground. In my opinion.

 

[Upintheair83]

You're welcome.

Absolutely agree theres failings at the hospital as in many. I live a stones throw away from the hospital. Infact i lived less than half a mile from letby. Im a mile away and she was half a mile away from there. Didnt know her. Gladly. But the hospital is my nearest and it has of recent been under pressure. That said. Its a free service by no means perfect. The doctors and nurses work on the neonatal are like they would on a high dependancy heart attack unit. Always moving always busy to keep those little ones alive. Cant imagine the nightmare of this trial for the parents and the carers involved.

The ‘ trust me im a nurse’ did it for me. Nope, totally unprofessional and no one on there would dream of replying like that. If you ask a nurse is your baby going to be ok? They cant answer yes or no. Theyd say “we are doing all we can” then talk about the positives and the care they're receiving. Thats the reply i always got. From different nurses. So they're trained to say it. Never’trust me im a nurse’
That does not sit well with me. Strikes me as an inferiority complex.

Thank you so so much for sharing your experience and thoughts. I'm so glad your little boy is thriving and doing well. Your story has actually made me cry and made me realise that for all letbys evil, there are some beautiful and good people.
It's really interesting what you say about her comments of 'trust me I'm a nurse' .... I honestly think she's a Psychopath and most psychopaths see everyone as pawns in their chess game where they play God. Really interesting insights and thoughts, thanks so much again for sharing. Xxx

 

[Stiltoncheese]

Do you mean because of the discussion between both sides regarding police interviews?

Yeah, it just sounded to me like they will agree on what is shareable and just use that instead of live testimony. Seems odd it wasn't agreed way before now as its been months.

I could be wrong as I know they used police interviews in Star Hobson's trial and they both still took the stand, but I've never felt from the start that LL would in this case.

 

[absoluteshockingfarts]

The message about Lucy and the Hens night where everyone was uncomfortable. It was on reddit a few days ago.

 

[avabella]

View attachment 2051904The message about Lucy and the Hens night where everyone was uncomfortable. It was on reddit a few days ago.

Sorry but that just made me LOL.

 

[absoluteshockingfarts]

Sorry but that just made me LOL.

Same I literally spit my tea out when I seen it… Lucy Letby is a dark horse it seems

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Just browsed the thread. Interesting and many valid points.
Learned dr gibbs has since retired. What a way to spend your last years there with whats happened. After a life time of care. Poor chap. But if anyone was going to stand up for the unit, i didn't doubt for one minute it would of been him.

Im far from a medical expert, but premies rarely cry. Infact I never heard one cry there. They struggle because they hate the tubes and make a little squeaky noise. But never a full blown scream? Or even a cry like a new born. Lungs ain't developed. So something must of been done, very bad for a premie to cry?

I believe she did it. I stand by the doctors.

My baby was 4lb 10oz (born 37 weeks) and he rarely cried so can't imagine a prem baby screaming. Also he was similar size to the triplets and discharged from hospital within 24 hrs so those sort of sizes are in some (mine for example) cases perfectly fine to go home with zero medical intervention. Can't exactly pull the prem card with these babies.

 

[DellaC]

View attachment 2051904The message about Lucy and the Hens night where everyone was uncomfortable. It was on reddit a few days ago.

Are they sure it wasn't a plunger?