Yes, it wouldn’t necessarily be the fear of any foul play but, as videos have been shown in court of the unit, a mum could imagine that the same incubator etc was being used, if they are the same.I do agree, but can’t get past him calling the mum a liar, I thought he was absolutely brutal on her tbh. I know it’s his job etc but I still think he took it too far. But yes at the end of the day he has to do his job, and look at it objectively as you say, and separate it. But as a human being on an emotional level, how you can do it I don’t know. But if she gets the best defence possible (that she is ofc entitled to), then there should be no chance of an appeal, so there’s at least that I suppose. I do hope there’s support for every single person involved in the trial, it is already, and will continue to be utterly harrowing
I think so, I wouldn’t want to go there that’s for sure. Although seeing as it was only one person that caused all this, and she’s now gone I’d not be as worried. But it would shivers down my spine just thinking about what went on. I assume the staffing levels and other problems were at least partly sorted after the reviews and level downgrade though
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Still have a few lunatics saying cover up etc on Facebook. But other than that they’ve gone completely quiet. It’s great to see the tides turn.
On another note, COCH is just an hour away from Hyde, where Myra Hindley, Ian Brady AND Harold Shipman undertook their murderous rampages.
Must be something in the water in that part of the country!
On another note, COCH is just an hour away from Hyde, where Myra Hindley, Ian Brady AND Harold Shipman undertook their murderous rampages.
Must be something in the water in that part of the country!
I’ve just been thinking about this and actually it might have been quite a clever move on his part to be so harsh on the Mum.I do agree, but can’t get past him calling the mum a liar, I thought he was absolutely brutal on her tbh. I know it’s his job etc but I still think he took it too far. But yes at the end of the day he has to do his job, and look at it objectively as you say, and separate it. But as a human being on an emotional level, how you can do it I don’t know. But if she gets the best defence possible (that she is ofc entitled to), then there should be no chance of an appeal, so there’s at least that I suppose. I do hope there’s support for every single person involved in the trial, it is already, and will continue to be utterly harrowing
BM is clearly a very clever man, he doesn’t get to his level otherwise. He’s read far more evidence than any of us know about yet and he’s probably sat with LL for many, many hours going over this. He can see in black and white just how bad this looks, he will know exactly any defence available and he will of course have come to his own conclusion. His role as her defence is simply to ensure a fair trial. He can’t go and say she’s innocent or lie to the court if he knows (ie she’s confessed to him) but he can believe she’s guilty himself as long as it doesn’t impact her receiving that fair trial. Things like cross examining a grieving mother on how her baby was crying is going to stick in a jurors mind, because she will obviously be distressed recalling it. It’s stuck in all of our minds because it was so horrible to read but imagine being sat in that court room and seeing it in person. From a defence POV he’s done exactly what he should and questioned her - so LL is getting her fair trial - but actually on a different level it helps the jurors see the mum is absolutely telling the truth. He was like a dog with a bone and it will be imprinted on a jurors mind now and he knows it.
It was also under his questioning that Dr Bohin apologised to the parents in court - again, very powerful and something that will stick in a jurors mind. His questioning lead to that - so LL is getting a fair trial - but again it actually helps the prosecution because it’s strengthening that picture of regret all these doctors and nurses have that they didn’t stop this sooner.
There are other times too when he’s questioned an expert only for it to fill in a couple of gaps or for the expert to be so strong in their opinion it’s strengthened the prosecution.
Child F we know was poisoned and he can’t dispute it, but he also hasn’t actually done anything to dispute LL’s involvement in hanging the bag or anything else. Their opening statement says they may dispute her involvement for Child L (the other insulin poisoning) due to documentation. But for Child F, he’s offering nothing to say “it wasn’t her”. He’s asked a few questions but none of which actually dispute anything the prosecution are claiming. She’s still getting her fair trial because he’s questioning parts of the evidence. But it’s very clever he’s doing that without trying to claim it wasn’t LL.
Just my thoughts. But I think BM is playing a very clever game. And I think he believes she’s guilty, he’s just absolutely ensuring a fair trial as is her right.
It's insulin hun told u she was innocent x
We're not all kitten heel wearing weirdos, thankfully!
Excellent thoughts, somethings I would probably never have considered. Very well thought out post. And yes I do agree that the jury seeing the parents, particularly the mum of E&F, and the consultant apologising are bound to have huge affects, the podcast said the apology was a really shocking moment in court. And that could well be how BM is able to sleep at night. Definitely some really good points to consider in your post
Very interesting points, he could well be coming across as cruel and unlikeable to us purely because all he wants is for there to be no question that he 100% did his job and defended her.
I don't like putting him down, or demonising him because he is literally just doing his job and without people like him we can't have fair trials. I don't like him but I try and remember we need people like him to ensure proper justice is served.
Tbf I reckon Myra Hindley wore kitten heels, let’s hope Ian Brady and Harold Shipman didn’t
that’d be a sight for sore eyes.
So even if she was NG would she never go back into nursing?
just caught up with the court transcripts for today, still need to catch up on the thread. But it has confirmed everything we have suspected and suggested. I think we can be in no doubt that someone ***letby*** added insulin to the TPN bag.
is this the conclusion everyone else is coming to? Going to read back now but lost where I was!
is this the conclusion everyone else is coming to? Going to read back now but lost where I was!
Just watched a YouTube of Beverly allitt and she got 13 consecutive life sentences and then ended up in a mental
Hospital. She’s got what she wanted as she’s always craved the medical attention. The media aren’t reporting anything really on LL and that’s frustrating when other less serious crimes have taken place and been all
Over the news. I also thought tonight if the parents of the babies knew how bad it was until they got to court. The BA ones didn’t know until court so it’s made me wonder
Hospital. She’s got what she wanted as she’s always craved the medical attention. The media aren’t reporting anything really on LL and that’s frustrating when other less serious crimes have taken place and been all
Over the news. I also thought tonight if the parents of the babies knew how bad it was until they got to court. The BA ones didn’t know until court so it’s made me wonder
I don’t think the Nmc would allow her to no
20th November 2020Don’t know if it’s posted on here but she’s (LL) is on an interim suspension order. It’s concurrent but annoyingly I can’t see when it started as that would give us an idea of when she was found out theoretically. I maintain though they won’t let her back on the register if she’s found
Not guilty due to her bringing the profession into such disrepute and that’s a huge thing to them. Also so is honesty. And it’s clear she’s lied etc
So it’s all over for her moving forwards. If she’s found not guilty she’ll need a new life and new name as no one will
Leave her alone. Like someone said I think she may take her own life. Unless she’s really unhinged that she thrives off drama
madness to go through all the training just to (allegedly) do this
Interesting20th November 2020
In this case we didn’t have details about the underlying criminal evidence to support the allegations. But now that charges have been confirmed by the police we can rely on those charges to proceed with appropriate regulatory action.
Interestingly (although not relevant at all imo) someone over on reddit pointed out LL's parents house was only a couple of miles away from where Joanna Dennehy was arrested (female SK serving a whole life order) and 20 or so miles from Rose West. As a Cestrian I much prefer the theory there's something in the water in that part of the country
Edit... spelling
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@OldBlondie sorry I’m not ignoring you.. I can’t remember much (Letby catchphrase soz) about Alitt’s defence and I’m not sure if that’s because I’m onto Harold now or because it wasn’t covered much. I can’t find anything much about it online. I suspect it was the same sort of thing and a how can you prove it was her if nobody saw her type situation I did find this article I hadn’t read though from one of the nurses. Really startling how similar these cases are, really the main difference is that, more like Shipman’s victims - on the face of it they’re more expected to die, even though actually that was so far from the truth. Many of these babies had great outlooks and many of shipman’s little old ladies had actually been very active even on the day they died. I’m still surprised BA got away with as much as she did but when you read this it is so heartbreaking for the people that work amongst this awfulness. This poor lady had to emigrate to try and leave the past behind her and lives with guilt she shouldn’t do every day of her life. She briefly mentions the awful cross examination so I imagine similar stuff- making out they were all to blame with incompetence etc somehow.
www.birminghammail.co.uk
I did find this article I hadn’t read though from one of the nurses. Really startling how similar these cases are, really the main difference is that, more like Shipman’s victims - on the face of it they’re more expected to die, even though actually that was so far from the truth. Many of these babies had great outlooks and many of shipman’s little old ladies had actually been very active even on the day they died. I’m still surprised BA got away with as much as she did but when you read this it is so heartbreaking for the people that work amongst this awfulness. This poor lady had to emigrate to try and leave the past behind her and lives with guilt she shouldn’t do every day of her life. She briefly mentions the awful cross examination so I imagine similar stuff- making out they were all to blame with incompetence etc somehow.
Birmingham nurse recalls working with 'Angel Of Death' child killer Beverley Allitt
The Birmingham nurse who worked alongside ‘Angel of Death’ Beverley Allitt – Britain’s most prolific hospital killer – today opens her heart to the Sunday Mercury.
Thats so sad@OldBlondie sorry I’m not ignoring you.. I can’t remember much (Letby catchphrase soz) about Alitt’s defence and I’m not sure if that’s because I’m onto Harold now or because it wasn’t covered much. I can’t find anything much about it online. I suspect it was the same sort of thing and a how can you prove it was her if nobody saw her type situation
Birmingham nurse recalls working with 'Angel Of Death' child killer Beverley Allitt
The Birmingham nurse who worked alongside ‘Angel of Death’ Beverley Allitt – Britain’s most prolific hospital killer – today opens her heart to the Sunday Mercury.
I keep coming back to this. I want to hear from her uni lecturers or uni lead. Also want to hear from a mentor from third year. Also want to hear from previous managers she’s worked for or was this her first nursing job?madness to go through all the training just to (allegedly) do this
I think hearing from her students would be a good insight into her personality too. You can always tell the more twatful nurses from the way they treat their students.
BA was caught red handed harming a baby at one point though@OldBlondie sorry I’m not ignoring you.. I can’t remember much (Letby catchphrase soz) about Alitt’s defence and I’m not sure if that’s because I’m onto Harold now or because it wasn’t covered much. I can’t find anything much about it online. I suspect it was the same sort of thing and a how can you prove it was her if nobody saw her type situation
Birmingham nurse recalls working with 'Angel Of Death' child killer Beverley Allitt
The Birmingham nurse who worked alongside ‘Angel of Death’ Beverley Allitt – Britain’s most prolific hospital killer – today opens her heart to the Sunday Mercury.
exactly! There must have been something if you add it all together I bet it was alarming rather than the odd thing. Or uni didn’t know which is how she got far enough to sign onto the register.
what’s awful is what this will do to the profession. Future nurses etc are going to have it hard from this.
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