i was wondering what size containers it was stored in. And 9ml does seem a lot but I’m sure I read the prosecution point out that it wouldn’t be a noticeable amount missing? I can’t remember exactly though
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Oh blimey yes you are right. So 0.56ml per hour would be 560 units and a neonate would usually go up to maximum of 10 units/kg/hr? (And that’s maximum, guessing usually less if they respond)
how would the body react to that kind of overdose, would it be almost instantly fatal ?
Obviously I’m not Professor Hindmarsh, and don’t know much about insulin, but 50 units an hour sounds huge to me. Even 0.5 units kg/hr would be a large overdose I think.
@docmum would know a lot more than me.
No, 0.56mls per hr would be 5.6 units. A neonate would start off at 0.01 to 0.05 units per kg/hr, going up to a maximum of 0.1 units per kg/hr (that’s from Google).
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So we have reporting of 10ml bottles from the paper and the below picture which comes from cps directly. Might mean more to the medics on thread but am I right in thinking it is 100units per ml in a 10ml bottle? Conclusion reached by jumbling all the info together and hoping it seems reasonable 
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ohh where did you find that picture?So we have reporting of 10ml bottles from the paper and the below picture which comes from cps directly. Might mean more to the medics on thread but am I right in thinking it is 100units per ml in a 10ml bottle? Conclusion reached by jumbling all the info together and hoping it seems reasonable
and yes looks like it says 100 units per ml x 10 = 1000 units.So we have reporting of 10ml bottles from the paper and the below picture which comes from cps directly. Might mean more to the medics on thread but am I right in thinking it is 100units per ml in a 10ml bottle? Conclusion reached by jumbling all the info together and hoping it seems reasonable
still confusing how much they think she put in the TPN bag though
but if it is 0.56ml per hour of insulin then that’s 560 units per hour they think he was getting!!One of the news articles you linked earlier! It blended in to the article took me a minute to realise what it even was
.So we have reporting of 10ml bottles from the paper and the below picture which comes from cps directly. Might mean more to the medics on thread but am I right in thinking it is 100units per ml in a 10ml bottle? Conclusion reached by jumbling all the info together and hoping it seems reasonable
Well, if that’s from the CPS that’s 100 units in 1ml so you can divide all the calculations by 100.
I thought standard was 100 units in 10mls, shows you how much I know about insulin!
I’m catching up on todays events, just wanted to say that I used to work in a hospital pharmacy and we were responsible for checking and replenishing medication stock once a day. It was extremely common for stock levels of meds to be off, especially for commonly used medications. Someone definitely would have noticed it missing, but because things like this happen all the time for completely innocent reasons e.g the nurse is too busy to note that they have grabbed out some paracetamol, someone accidentally drops the medication on the floor, you break a vial etc. no one is concerned about it and it wouldn’t have been considered a safeguarding issue.
It only becomes a concern when there are massive discrepancies between the ward stock they say they have and what is actually there, or when any controlled drugs disappear. If we launched an investigation every time we checked the stock levels and there were 8 ibuprofen in the packet instead of 10, we would just spend our whole time doing that basically
!Same, still burns my brain out, but least we can all get confused over the same thingohh where did you find that picture?
and yes looks like it says 100 units per ml x 10 = 1000 units.
still confusing how much they think she put in the TPN bag though
On the subject of Victorians and healthcare (which is a particular interest of mine, especially the development of mental healthcare), I was reminded of a pivotal serial murder case in which 200-400 babies and infants were murdered by a nurse called Amelia Dyer over a 30yr period, starting in the 1860's. It was so prominent that it contributed to the development of the NSPCC as we know it today.
There was a practice at the time called 'baby farming', in which one was paid in order to adopt or foster a baby or infant. Many women who had conceived out of wedlock turned to these baby farmers to escape the prejudices of the day and were also often used as foster placements by the wealthy even when a child had not been borne illegitimately - Jane Austen herself was put in the care of a baby farmer for a short time. The practice itself was legal but one can imagine it was a system ridden with crime and black-market control depending on the individual farmer - so much so that Amelia was nicknamed the 'Ogress of Reading'.
There was a practice at the time called 'baby farming', in which one was paid in order to adopt or foster a baby or infant. Many women who had conceived out of wedlock turned to these baby farmers to escape the prejudices of the day and were also often used as foster placements by the wealthy even when a child had not been borne illegitimately - Jane Austen herself was put in the care of a baby farmer for a short time. The practice itself was legal but one can imagine it was a system ridden with crime and black-market control depending on the individual farmer - so much so that Amelia was nicknamed the 'Ogress of Reading'.
Still way more than I know, thank you for helping me try to make sense of it all
The whole 10ml would contain 1000IUSo we have reporting of 10ml bottles from the paper and the below picture which comes from cps directly. Might mean more to the medics on thread but am I right in thinking it is 100units per ml in a 10ml bottle? Conclusion reached by jumbling all the info together and hoping it seems reasonable
oh good spot! Ive found it now (on bbc article).One of the news articles you linked earlier! It blended in to the article took me a minute to realise what it even was
I probably just scrolled past thinking it was an ad forgetting I was on the bbc website
I think I might need to create a section in the wiki for the images and videos released by the CPS. I wonder how they decide which bits to release.
Please can you remind me what official evidence has been released during the trial? I can think of
- post it note
- video of room 1
- insulin
Has there been anything else?
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It might be an idea, but could be additional wiki shuffling for you, no idea how you even keep track.oh good spot! Ive found it now (on bbc article).
I probably just scrolled past thinking it was an ad forgetting I was on the bbc website
I think I might need to create a section in the wiki for the images and videos released by the CPS. I wonder how they decide which bits to release.
Press court pics are normally reserved for what will get more clicks/readers, scene of the crime, weapons, social media pics.
Meanwhile am sitting here wanting just one touch typists to attend court and report all the details without the gaps
Eta
Think you've got them covered, I can always give you a heads up if I spot them and I haven't seen them mentioned already on thread
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Yes a daily transcript would be good but one of the very early threads someone said even the jury don’t get a transcript of what’s said on the stand!It might be an idea, but could be additional wiki shuffling for you, no idea how you even keep track.
Press court pics are normally reserved for what will get more clicks/readers, scene of the crime, weapons, social media pics.
Meanwhile am sitting here wanting just one touch typists to attend court and report all the details without the gaps
It was no problem adding a section, added near the start of the first page. It will only become a problem if I eventually run out of space but will cross that bridge later.
I can’t remember if there has been anything else released yet.
Multiply. God I should just shut up!
Sorry edited my original post once id seen your question, I think you're good, I can always give you a shout if I see one that hasn't been mentioned in thread already,
Can I ask, may be a stupid question, but are we saying she’d pretty much only need to nick one vial? Because I was sort of wondering, along the lines of Tofino asking about how it needs to be stored, if she could have been taking home little bits and bobs along the way and collecting her own ‘stock’ at home- hence the need for the searches at her house (not that there weren’t already good enough reasons if she’s done what is alledged).
And why there might have been a gap between poisonings to allow for a house move (if I’ve got that bit of the time line right) and more collecting of bits and bobs of insulin.
And why there might have been a gap between poisonings to allow for a house move (if I’ve got that bit of the time line right) and more collecting of bits and bobs of insulin.
I actually don’t think she’d have to nick a vial, that would be too obvious, and a vial would be 1000 units. I think she’d only have to remove a very small amount with a syringe as, at 100 units an ml, babies were only receiving a tiny amount. Calculated, I believe, by mixing a slightly easier to measure larger amount in say, 50mls of saline or glucose, then discarding 40mls then using only 10mls. I’m using these volumes as a guide only as I don’t know the actual amounts used.
I think it would be very difficult to tell if someone had take 0.1 mls out of a vial but that would be 10 units. An overdose for a neonate. Even 0.3 or so could be easily explained away, actually probably wouldn’t need to be explained at all. Well that’s my theory.
I could be wrong again!
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On the insulin…just putting this into my own daily life as a type 1.
0.56ml per hour = 56 units of insulin per hour over a 10 hour period = 560 units
1000 units in a 10ml bottle.
She could have stole a bottle and poisoned both bags. Those figures would work out as being a full bottle split between both bags. So 5ml in each bag.
I do find these calculations questionable! Something is wrong here because a grown adult taking 56 units an hour without much eating would go into a coma! Then again there is the counteracting with the glucose the baby received.
0.56ml per hour = 56 units of insulin per hour over a 10 hour period = 560 units
1000 units in a 10ml bottle.
She could have stole a bottle and poisoned both bags. Those figures would work out as being a full bottle split between both bags. So 5ml in each bag.
I do find these calculations questionable! Something is wrong here because a grown adult taking 56 units an hour without much eating would go into a coma! Then again there is the counteracting with the glucose the baby received.
Nah, just revisited and thought more about this. No way is the 0.56 ml per hour correct. I’ll have a research on my day off.
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