Lucy Letby Case #14

[IGiveUp22]

I don’t have a work phone so have to use my personal phone for work (this is a whole other issue) but I manage staff & they have to send me doctors notes etc and this sometimes comes via WhatsApp, I then have to save it & email it to my work email. I try my best to remember to delete everything but sometimes I’ve been scrolling through my camera roll & thought wtf is that haha. But obviously if I was questioned in a police interview I could completely explain this with a reasonable explanation as to why I have work related things on my phone. I wouldn’t say “I don’t remember”. I think that’s the issue for me with the FB searches - her explanation.
I’ll be interested to see if the defence offer LL explanation of the note & of the sympathy card & of the handover notes. If she’s offered reasonable explanations for those things like people have on here I’d like to hear them. E.G if she took a photo of the card to send to someone to check - surely that would also be in her messages so prosecution wouldn’t have used that? So if there is no message showing that, I’d hope she’s still provided an explanation in interview to say “I took a pic to show a colleague to check what I’d written but didn’t get chance to send it in the end” not “I don’t remember”

 

[PsychoticPrincess]

Just popping on to tell you fellas that the coroner cause of death program is on again tonight. Channel 5 9pm. I know there was a few who thought it was interesting how they work and it is about suspicious deaths. One episode will be about a rise in deaths on a ward but not sure if that is tonights.

If you like that type of program check out Autopsy - the last 24hrs by Dr Richard Shephard. He’s the UK’s top forensic pathologist and has actually changed the cause of death, years later, in many cases including Whitney Houston and Amy Winehouse.
He’s also does high profile court cases that have led to guilty verdicts where other evidence has been sketchy.

I’m calling it now…the prosecution are going to bring him in at the end and leave no doubt in the jury’s mind that LL did this .

 

[OldBlondie]

Maybe she wanted to show what she had written to someone to make sure they agreed it was ok, as it doesn’t sound like she usually does it so may be worried about writing the wrong thing and therefore potentially making it worse for the parents? Maybe the other person was busy at the time so she closed the envelope ready for the parents but could go and take it back to redo it if she did show someone the pic and they thought she should change it.
I’d think if it was a trophy or her reveling in their grief then she’d make it a thing she did every time but as far as we know it was a one time thing?

I understand this is offering another explanation to what might have happened. I just don’t find it credible Fella, I’m sorry. This just sounds like a dog ate my homework. Why did she still have it on phone 3 years later if that was why she had it in first place? Why didn’t she then explain to police if that’s why it was on phone and it is innocent why not explain that. And it’s the card and the handover notes, together they suggest trophies. If the card was an isolated thing I could maybe buy your reason, but not with the multiple note thing too. Plus the baby that this card was for was baby I, this Baby she attempted to kill 4 times, was successful the fourth, she also made the inappropriate bath comment to parents and the FB searches, never mind anything else we’ve heard

 

[MmmB777]

Sonya Caleffi killed people via air embolism. She was last with them to give treatment. She had medical records for the patients at home, drug chart too I think. She also kept a journal and had written confession in that which she then retracted. She enjoyed the crash situation and attention. I think there are several cases where the records of people were found at home and of course the theme that runs alongside that is that the notes are those of people that were found to have evidence of sabotage. Yes it can be accidental but the fact that she is with these babies just before they die in ways that were unexpected makes it incredibly incriminating. It isn’t her videoed harming a baby evidence because that just isn’t in this case. So all these things form the picture.

Fellas

Recap: Lucy Letby trial adjourned on November 10 due to ill juror

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[OldBlondie]

Thankyou, I've read through again and makes me so sad and angry!
Just hope the fellas of the jury can remember all this at the end of the six months
I wish they could have access to it and read it before making their decision
I worry that the defence case will be so fresh in their minds and all this will be " forgotten "
I know, both prosecution amd defence will close their cases at the end...but I just worry that they have had so much legal and medical stuff trusted to/try to understand that human nature will prevail and the defence case will be much fresher in their heads
Six months is a long time and the poor fellas have had to try to take so much in already
Last time I said this...the response was along the lines "this is the case with every court case" ...but this is huge....and I can't help thinking Myers fella has an advantage that all this has been said and documented and they may just "forget"...I'm prob being really naive with my thoughts and Mr Johnson will hopefully do a wonderful closing statement....(referring to his own " wiki")
some of this stuff is huge and builds a "picture" that is quite sickening ....

Yea I get what you mean, it would be a travesty if she got off (if guilty). But hopefully the jury will be able to look over any of the electronic info they have on their iPads anytime they need to ( hope they have a version of the wiki as good as ours). I’m just hoping that by the time they get to defence, the prosecution will have done such a good job that BM’s argument will just sound ridiculous with same old discrediting tactics. I think as we move to next few babies the evidence will become so strong that the jury will be convinced beyond the reasonable doubt they need to be

 

[Milktray]

The FB searches are not 100% sus but it’s the circumstances in which she searched them that is sus. Searching the parents of Baby A & B whilst they were still in the hospital, just after their first twin had died. It’s just not normal behaviour.

Yeah, these families were in LL private life more than they should have been.

Take a handover sheet home...ok.
Search them on Facebook multiple times...Mmm, not ok but ok.
Take photos of sympathy cards...???
Stand over parents after their baby has died... absolutely NOT ok.

Where do you draw the line between when something is ok to then becoming intrusive?

A single thing may not hold weight but collectively, this is not right.

I've said it before...the devastation those families must have been feeling to find out their child was potentially murdered must have been heightened by the very fact the suspect lurked, watched and got off on their pain.

This wasn't someone who killed, end of. This was someone who relished in the grief.

I'm willing to listen to what LL has to say about that...but up to now, I personally think, this is sinister.

 

[OldBlondie]

I don’t have a work phone so have to use my personal phone for work (this is a whole other issue) but I manage staff & they have to send me doctors notes etc and this sometimes comes via WhatsApp, I then have to save it & email it to my work email. I try my best to remember to delete everything but sometimes I’ve been scrolling through my camera roll & thought wtf is that haha. But obviously if I was questioned in a police interview I could completely explain this with a reasonable explanation as to why I have work related things on my phone. I wouldn’t say “I don’t remember”. I think that’s the issue for me with the FB searches - her explanation.
I’ll be interested to see if the defence offer LL explanation of the note & of the sympathy card & of the handover notes. If she’s offered reasonable explanations for those things like people have on here I’d like to hear them. E.G if she took a photo of the card to send to someone to check - surely that would also be in her messages so prosecution wouldn’t have used that? So if there is no message showing that, I’d hope she’s still provided an explanation in interview to say “I took a pic to show a colleague to check what I’d written but didn’t get chance to send it in the end” not “I don’t remember”

From what she’s said so far in police interviews about the notes, the searches and the cards it’s all that she doesn’t remember and is so vague. This is what I can’t get my head round. I can understand if these were isolated things, or she could explain why she had done these things, I could maybe at a stretch buy it, but it’s the claiming not to remember, but as someone else said above can remember it was the other nurse that hung the drip. It’s the really selective memory that makes me suss

Sonya Caleffi killed people via air embolism. She was last with them to give treatment. She had medical records for the patients at home, drug chart too I think. She also kept a journal and had written confession in that which she then retracted. She enjoyed the crash situation and attention. I think there are several cases where the records of people were found at home and of course the theme that runs alongside that is that the notes are those of people that were found to have evidence of sabotage. Yes it can be accidental but the fact that she is with these babies just before they die in ways that were unexpected makes it incredibly incriminating. It isn’t her videoed harming a baby evidence because that just isn’t in this case. So all these things form the picture.

Fellas

Recap: Lucy Letby trial adjourned on November 10 due to ill juror

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

So glad Mark Fella is back today, phew

Yeah, these families were in LL private life more than they should have been.

Take a handover sheet home...ok.
Search them on Facebook multiple times...Mmm, not ok but ok.
Take photos of sympathy cards...???
Stand over parents after their baby has died... absolutely NOT ok.

Where do you draw the line between when something is ok to then becoming intrusive?

A single thing may not hold weight but collectively, this is not right.

I've said it before...the devastation those families must have been feeling to find out their child was potentially murdered must have been heightened by the very fact the suspect lurked, watched and got off on their pain.

This wasn't someone who killed, end of. This was someone who relished in the grief.

I'm willing to listen to what LL has to say about that...but up to now, I personally think, this is sinister.

Yes this You’ve explained it far better than me

 

[PenelopeTitsDrop]

I know exactly what you mean. I feel the same. A bit of a merail.. But while I was nursing my life was chaotic in every way. My family, of which I'm now estranged were causing massive problems, which I covered up, my life was falling apart and I suffered years of CPTSD before I got diagnosis and my life back.... I was really great with patients, student nurses, families but never fitted in great with nurses (the pony tails as we used to call them). There's no denying I was an odd bod
I can't get over that. I know I've stammered out stupid things and cared too much, or cried over something stupid... So yeah... It's hard not to see myself or think of the times I was bullied... Gah!!

Be gentle with me.. It's hard to explain fellas.

It's so hard to nurse when your personal life is going to tit, yet you did it well anyway. Massive respect to you - I'd have been off sick!

I don't think anyone would put caring too much in the same category as this. If that was the case, I bet you would remember why you had looked up the patients - because you care. Not told told the police that you couldn't remember, if that makes sense.

I hope life has got easier for you now. From a fellow estranged family person to another - hugs

 

[OldBlondie]

Also thanks to all the fellas that answered whether their opinion on the LL Fb and note thing had changed since the beginning threads. Interestingly some had and some hadn’t, was really curious about it so thanks again fellas

 

[SundaysChild]

Yeah, these families were in LL private life more than they should have been.

Take a handover sheet home...ok.
Search them on Facebook multiple times...Mmm, not ok but ok.
Take photos of sympathy cards...???
Stand over parents after their baby has died... absolutely NOT ok.

Where do you draw the line between when something is ok to then becoming intrusive?

A single thing may not hold weight but collectively, this is not right.

I've said it before...the devastation those families must have been feeling to find out their child was potentially murdered must have been heightened by the very fact the suspect lurked, watched and got off on their pain.

This wasn't someone who killed, end of. This was someone who relished in the grief.

I'm willing to listen to what LL has to say about that...but up to now, I personally think, this is sinister.

The pencil theory...

 

[Faith61]

Yea I get what you mean, it would be a travesty if she got off (if guilty). But hopefully the jury will be able to look over any of the electronic info they have on their iPads anytime they need to ( hope they have a version of the wiki as good as ours). I’m just hoping that by the time they get to defence, the prosecution will have done such a good job that BM’s argument will just sound ridiculous with same old discrediting tactics. I think as we move to next few babies the evidence will become so strong that the jury will be convinced beyond the reasonable doubt they need to be

Yeah....I keep hoping this is the case, and as you say..the next few babies are going to a lot less easy for BM to defend or " blame" on medical negligene/failings within the trust..I sound like I'm wanting her to be guilty, it's not that as such....I just want justice to be served for those babies and families and personally,am finding it hard right now to see her as innocent.
The FB groups kill me off...I worry that if even a few of the jury have the mindset of some of them fellas,she's gonna walk free, whatever comes out in the coming months!
I could change my opinion, as I believe most of us are open to on here, as the case moves forward...but the mentality of some people worries me
Sounds patronising I know, but it's really not meant to be!!

 

[Rippedjeanmaybe]

People keep describing her as quiet and nice and say they are so shocked that she could do it and people say “it’s always the quiet ones you least expect”.
It’s the quiet ones because they’re usually the ones on the fringes of society, they’re usually the ones who are a bit more isolated, a bit more overlooked and a bit more on the edge of the action all the time.
they’re the ones that become butts of jokes or the last to be thought of just because “oh she wont mind she’s nice she’s quiet”.

I’ve always been that person, the person who could commit crime and you’d be shocked, the person that could take their own life and you’d be shocked, because I am quiet, nice etc I’m the person who people think “oh she wouldn’t hurt a fly”. But resentment grows when people are like that, of course it doesn’t lead to them committing murder (most of the time), but I think a lot goes on in their heads that people don’t see and I think this is why people close to her won’t suspect her.

 

[OldBlondie]

Yeah....I keep hoping this is the case, and as you say..the next few babies are going to a lot less easy for BM to defend or " blame" on medical negligene/failings within the trust..I sound like I'm wanting her to be guilty, it's not that as such....I just want justice to be served for those babies and families and personally,am finding it hard right now to see her as innocent.
The FB groups kill me off...I worry that if even a few of the jury have the mindset of some of them fellas,she's gonna walk free, whatever comes out in the coming months!
I could change my opinion, as I believe most of us are open to on here, as the case moves forward...but the mentality of some people worries me
Sounds patronising I know, but it's really not meant to be!!

The only hope I have for the jury is that they can actually have discussions in the room at the end. Like on here we’ve been able to discuss in an intellectual way, taking on board everyone’s opinion and then discussing what these things could mean. I’m guessing on the FB hun groups there is no discussion, it’s all just the kitten heel wearers screaming at each other, some maybe then being influenced by others on there. Where as on here I think there’s a much wider range of discussion. Also the jury are hearing and seeing so much more than us, so hopefully there’s loads that’s more clear to them. I also think on here the fellas have put so much effort into looking at more info eg the journal articles that have been shared, the Fella that knew what the how to save a life program was about etc. I doubt the Fb huns will have even bothered with anything like this. Plus we have the most amazing wiki to be able to continually use to look bits up that are relevant to discussion on here, I doubt the Fb huns have gone to anywhere near half as much effort as we have on here. Hopefully this all means the the jury are nothing like the Fb groups

The pencil theory...

This so glad this has been shared again

 

[StatusWoe]

Yeah....I keep hoping this is the case, and as you say..the next few babies are going to a lot less easy for BM to defend or " blame" on medical negligene/failings within the trust..I sound like I'm wanting her to be guilty, it's not that as such....I just want justice to be served for those babies and families and personally,am finding it hard right now to see her as innocent.
The FB groups kill me off...I worry that if even a few of the jury have the mindset of some of them fellas,she's gonna walk free, whatever comes out in the coming months!

Totally agree. It's not a case of wanting her to be guilty or innocent. You just want the jury's verdict to reflect the truth. An innocent woman being imprisoned for life as a baby killer is unthinkable, but nobody wants a murderer to walk free just because the medical evidence is confusing and hard to interpret. The families will only get justice if the correct verdict is reached and it's so worrying to think of the outcome being wrong.

From what she’s said so far in police interviews about the notes, the searches and the cards it’s all that she doesn’t remember and is so vague. This is what I can’t get my head round. I can understand if these were isolated things, or she could explain why she had done these things, I could maybe at a stretch buy it, but it’s the claiming not to remember, but as someone else said above can remember it was the other nurse that hung the drip. It’s the really selective memory that makes me suss

I want to know more about her comment 'I wondered if the bag wasn't what we thought' (not the exact quote). Something about the wording set off alarm bells and I can't explain why. I was interested to know more about the context - I think she said it in a police interview? It might seem even more suspicious, or more reasonable, when new info is added. I think this was where LL claimed she'd asked for the bag to be set aside to be checked, but there was no record of this. From the evidence so far, it doesn't seem as though the hospital was brilliant at record keeping, but none of the staff recall her making this request either. She also asked the police if they had found the bag.

 

[MmmB777]

Totally agree. It's not a case of wanting her to be guilty or innocent. You just want the jury's verdict to reflect the truth. An innocent woman being imprisoned for life as a baby killer is unthinkable, but nobody wants a murderer to walk free just because the medical evidence is confusing and hard to interpret. The families will only get justice if the correct verdict is reached and it's so worrying to think of the outcome being wrong.



I want to know more about her comment 'I wondered if the bag wasn't what we thought' (not the exact quote). Something about the wording set off alarm bells and I can't explain why. I was interested to know more about the context - I think she said it in a police interview? It might seem even more suspicious, or more reasonable, when new info is added. I think this was where LL claimed she'd asked for the bag to be set aside to be checked, but there was no record of this. From the evidence so far, it doesn't seem as though the hospital was brilliant at record keeping, but none of the staff recall her making this request either. She also asked the police if they had found the bag.

The last bit, she asked if they had the bag that was used in the insulin poisoning.

 

[OldBlondie]

Totally agree. It's not a case of wanting her to be guilty or innocent. You just want the jury's verdict to reflect the truth. An innocent woman being imprisoned for life as a baby killer is unthinkable, but nobody wants a murderer to walk free just because the medical evidence is confusing and hard to interpret. The families will only get justice if the correct verdict is reached and it's so worrying to think of the outcome being wrong.



I want to know more about her comment 'I wondered if the bag wasn't what we thought' (not the exact quote). Something about the wording set off alarm bells and I can't explain why. I was interested to know more about the context - I think she said it in a police interview? It might seem even more suspicious, or more reasonable, when new info is added. I think this was where LL claimed she'd asked for the bag to be set aside to be checked, but there was no record of this. From the evidence so far, it doesn't seem as though the hospital was brilliant at record keeping, but none of the staff recall her making this request either. She also asked the police if they had found the bag.

I think that it was baby A you’re talking about, I’m nearly sure I read about it on the wiki about it yesterday maybe on prosecution opening on it

FELLAS

 

[StatusWoe]

The last bit, she asked if they had the bag that was used in the insulin poisoning.

Was she asking because a) she's curious to know how the investigation is progressing, b) she hopes the evidence will somehow prove her innocence, or c) she's worried that they're onto her. It could be any of those really.

 

[Aberscot]

The judge, Mr Justice Goss, is explaining to the remaining members of the jury that the case cannot proceed today, as the trial needs all 12 members present.
No trial today… but that’s a month down already

 

[StatusWoe]

FELLAS

Oh no. Not an ill fella.

 

[OldBlondie]

The last bit, she asked if they had the bag that was used in the insulin poisoning.

Oh I thought op was talking her saying about the bag with baby A. Then her asking about the bag was in the baby that was insulin poisoning later on?