LGB Discussion

[littlewonder]

hi everyone!! I’ve recently accepted that I’m bi after years of denial (although I did initially say queer whilst I was still figuring things out) and haven’t told many people because I’m just happy knowing and accepting it myself at the moment. It is quite nice to comment on this thread and take a little step further into acceptance

one thing I really find annoying is comments on photos or TikTok’s of bi & lesbian women simply existing and saying ‘I’m straight but I would turn bi for you’ or ‘I’m straight & married but it’s not that serious’ as if being bi is one big joke or something you can just switch on and off 🥲 maybe I’m being sensitive whilst still coming to terms with my sexuality but it just feels really icky and idk how to explain why? It just makes me feel that that’s how people would see me if I came out - as hopping on a ‘trend’ for likes (urgh)

 

[HockyRorror]

With regards to the commonwealth homophobic countries, extremely naïve view but why not exclude these countries from partaking. Then again in sports, there is never much moral values- Qatar world Cup..

That is a dangerous path to go down in my opinion. Different countries have different ways of life. Where does it stop? Banning the USA from the Olympics because some states have the death penalty as legal? And it could also work the other way round: If that rule was in place, what’s to stop Qatar banning all pro-gay teams from entering the World Cup? (Not that that would be their decision, but still). I didn’t and don’t agree with Russia being banned from sporting events either.

 

[Sideboard Bob]

Thank you for starting this thread @Ensay ! Proud bi woman here!

I’ll need to think about your questions. I think overall, gay rights and acceptance is still such a recent thing (in terms of human history) that we need to be prepared for a pushback. I think this is the case for women’s rights and the civil rights movement too.

 

[HockyRorror]

That's a worrying thought, but I really hope that enough people have boring gays (like me ) in their lives to know that ordinary LGBT people just want to live their lives and are as horrified by the sexualisation of children as most straight people are. Also, plenty of gay and lesbian couples have kids now, so I would like to think that those members of the community would be vocal in their opposition to any kind of child exploitation.

The thing is though, it’s “boring gays” like you, like me, like @Ensay (pretty sure he won’t mind me calling him that!) who are suffering here from the hands of the “loud queers” (who sometimes aren’t even gay themselves).

When you have the police petting furries fetishists dressed as dogs and walking them around on their leads at pride, when you have the NHS asking men if they are pregnant and calling women “uterus havers”, when you have the police dragging people into police stations and asking them to “check their thinking” when saying trans women are men or telling people off for being “untoward to paedophiles” and LGBTQ media is applauding all of these actions, then of course people are going to associate it with this. Case in point: despite never having a single conversation about it until a couple of weeks ago, my sister of 40+ years old assumed I was very pro transgender simply from my being gay by association. That’s what a lot of people think automatically. And that’s why when you read comments on articles regarding things like drag Queen story time and people rightly call it out as gross, they are wrongly blaming the gay community for it. Because of association. And when “boring gays” like us try and speak up about it, our own gay media not only silence us, but accuse us of transphobia, when transgenderism is automatically rooted in homophobia. Nothing about this is logical, none of it makes sense, and it’s being led by people with either: mental health issues, neurodiverse issues, or fetishes.

I am fucking ANGRY that our hard won gay rights are being eroded before our very eyes because straight men wearing dresses are deluded and aggressive to try and change the law to recognise them as women and to physically attack women trying to talk normally in public.

 

[sheleg]

Surely the rainbow covers the entirety of the LGBTQI+ umbrella. I'm not sure why people of colour wouldn't be included already. Feels vaguely racist to imply that they're not, so need their own colours.

 

[Ensay]

I never got why they added more stuff to it anyway, as it was meant to represent diversity, so arguably still covered all the groups that have added extra stripes/chevrons/circles.

 

[Into_the_tunnel]

Thank you for this thread- lesbian here and been with my wife coming up 20 years.

I think the movement is in a real state of flux at the moment- it feels really hard to navigate. Back in the early 2000s when we were going out in Canal St, times felt simpler. She and I don’t agree about lots of things in this regard.

In terms of abuse, we have been on the end of it a few times recently in our northern (not Manchester) city. Reported it to the police who sided with the students.

Also agree with others that Tom Daley was right to highlight the issues. Not least for those in the U.K. who don’t realise what it is like in less tolerant areas of the Commonwealth. Yes, we cannot force them to change, the history with doing that kind of thing is too horrific, but we can show lack of tolerance.

(Sorry if I am not expressing myself well)

 

[Ensay]

Foreign Secretary James Cleverly tells gay football fans to be 'respectful' of Qatar.

I didn't realise we had to be respectful of a nation that deems our very existence to be a crime, James.

And I notice a lot of people are saying things like "their country, their rules" or "if you're bothered, don't go", etc. But I'd be willing to bet most of those people are straight - hence don't need to worry about it. I'm alright, Jack!

I should add that I'm not suggesting gay people should display lots of public affection, but the fact of the matter is even basic things -- such as sharing a hotel room with a same sex partner or spouse -- is frowned upon. It seems crazy the World Cup should be held in such a place, but what do I know?

 

[HockyRorror]

This is the crux of the matter. Feelings are taking precedence over scientific fact. My husband is a doctor. He would tell you without a doubt, that 100٪ of the patients he sees who claim to be trans/non binary, have either autism or learning difficulties. Vulnerable people are being preyed upon and enabled by exponents of this ridiculous ideology, yet we are told to accept it, because "feelings". People are having their bodies mutilated and/or pumped full of hormones, because "feelings". My 9 year old son was taught about being trans and what "pansexual" meant in PHSE last week. I mean, what the actual fuck?

So if someone wants gender reassignment surgery, they should have it if it makes them "feel better"? Wanting a healthy, functioning part of their body to be mutilated and fashioned into a pathetic imitation of the opposite sex's body part, does that sound like the thoughts of a rational person? Should we just say, "sure, the operating theatre is right this way".

I suffered from anorexia in my teens. I still carry the weight of it now, in my 40s. I weighed 5 and a half stone, but I still wanted to get a knife and chop off all my "fat" bits. Still do now when I'm having a bad day. It's a mental illness. No doctor would ever consider doing what I wanted them to do. But yeah, if I wanted my perfectly normal dick cut off, shoved inside me to made a bacteria‐ridden, never‐healing wound that has to be dilated every day for the rest of my life...sure, why not?

I find the whole thing nightmarish. The speed at which it has escalated, how on‐board politicians are with it, the impact of social media and agenda‐ridden websites on vulnerable people.

And finally, I don't believe that most people who've had the surgery are happier. They just find something else to focus on. The vast, vast majority of people who have the surgery don't end up looking like Hunter Schafer. They look like a man dressed a woman, or vice versa. My husband had a lorry driver patient who had the surgery. Massive bloke, there was no way he was ever going to look feminine. He became obsessed with wanting forehead surgery on the NHS. He actually.thought that having his forehead bone ground down and shaved off, would make him feel more feminine. By your reckoning, he should have been allowed to have it done. Then it would've been the next issue. That's mental illness.

This post, with bells on,100% fucking percent. This Frankenstein era is a nightmare that people will eventually look back on and claim how horrible it was, and I personally will not forget any person or organisations that were championing this in the name of “progress”.

 

[HockyRorror]

I find the trans movement a really difficult one to have an opinion on. Knowing the misery and loneliness that is growing up gay, I can only imagine what it feels like for someone with genuine gender dysphoria.

The problem is, and where the accusations of “washing away the gay” (even a quote from the staff at the infamous trans Tavistock clinic that has now been shut down following investigations) with the trans is how it’s applied. As a child (late 80s/early 90s) I loved playing with dolls, I love wearing my moms high heels, and I loved the rare occasions where I was allowed to wear nail varnish. If the trans idea had been apparent at a time I did all of this and I had adults (and keep in mind, these adults aren’t necessarily your own parents…teachers, school counsellors etc) tell me that me doing this meant I was actually a girl and I could be a girl if I wanted to be, I would have enthusiastically and very much so said YES. I am now very much a gay man and have been for a long time. But if I had everyone in my life telling me I was really a girl from the age of 4/5 and deluding me, how tf is a child meant to grow up normally with adults telling them that?? The fact is: humans CANT change sex. The fact that “sex changes” exist is a legal lie that IMO shouldn’t even exist. So therefore you can’t write this into law, because what does it even mean?

 

[Ensay]

Florida citizens voted for the people who write and vote for these laws, and the elected officials are responsible to the same voters. They are not responsible to me, a Brit living in France, and I don’t believe it is right for non-citizens to agitate in other countries laws.

We're not really agitating in other country's laws, but we deserve the right to state our opinions on those laws.

But to answer your question, the main right gay couples don't have is to be married in a place of their choosing. There aren't many same sex couples who would want to be married in a church, but some do - for example, Christians who are gay. Some vicars would be happy to perform those ceremonies, but they're not allowed to.

There are also some discrepancies in certain occupational pensions. For example, if you're a member of one of those occupational pensions and you're in a heterosexual marriage or civil partnership, your opposite sex spouse or civil partner is entitled to survivor's benefits in respect of all the contributions you've paid in. However, if you're in a same sex marriage, your same sex partner is only entitled to survivor’s benefits based on the contributions you've paid in from 2005 onwards.

Put simply, some surviving partners are worse off financially if they're in a same sex marriage compared to an opposite sex marriage. I think that's unfair.

Both of these apply to the UK.

That is a dangerous path to go down in my opinion. Different countries have different ways of life. Where does it stop? Banning the USA from the Olympics because some states have the death penalty as legal? And it could also work the other way round: If that rule was in place, what’s to stop Qatar banning all pro-gay teams from entering the World Cup? (Not that that would be their decision, but still). I didn’t and don’t agree with Russia being banned from sporting events either.

I agree. It's not fair to competitors who live in those countries. They may not even agree with those laws, yet they could still be denied the right to compete in their chosen sport - something they may have worked most of their life towards.

 

[Ensay]

Oh definitely. When you mentioned western countries, it made me rememberer something. There are still so many parts of the world where it’s illegal or dangerous to be openly gay. We still have a long way to go. “We” might have equal rights now, but we can’t forget our sisters and brothers around the world who don’t.

Yes exactly. I thought it was good they highlighted LGB equality (or lack thereof) at last night's Commonwealth Games opening ceremony, as it's illegal to be openly gay in so many Commonwealth countries. It seems unfathomable in this day and age.

I can only hope things will improve in those countries, but that's why I think the fight must continue.

I note on articles on rags like the Daily Mail about other countries' antiquated laws, a lot of the top voted comments will be along the lines of "Their country, their rules" which is silent acceptance. Or sometimes they'll be more blatant with crap like: "Good to see not all countries are woke" - and a lot of these people are based in the UK. I find it quite chilling how many people get quite gleeful at the prospect of LGB being outlawed.

 

[Baby Giraffe]

Yep, pretending to have autism seems to be the in thing with quirky teen girls these days. And it's really insulting.

My cousin has autism - he is 20 years old but obsessed with peppa pig, bluey and thomas the tank engine. Only just about learning to dress himself, manage money, and tell the time.
Autism is not a hidden disability like some people like to claim. You can tell by looking at my cousin, and the children he went school with, that they are autistic. They all have that same face, that wide baby-like look in their eyes. They are children in the bodies of adults, unable to care for themselves. Poor social skills is just one part of it.

But you can tell these girls are not autistic - they don't have the autistic face. Maybe they were not the popular kids, and maybe they were bullied, or socially awkward around their crushes, but thats just a part of growing up and learning to fit in. Not autism

You most certainly can’t tell that somebody is autistic by looking at them, you may well be able to see some similarities in the people you know but I know several autistic adults who you can only tell with when you’ve interacted with them, the first signs usually being their inability to small talk and quite literal communication. They can all dress themselves perfectly well and are successful in their careers as technical experts. They don’t represent all autistic people in the same way as the ones you know don’t either. Do however agree that people shouldn’t self diagnose but saying somebody doesn’t look a particular way doesn’t mean that they’re not.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Yep, pretending to have autism seems to be the in thing with quirky teen girls these days. And it's really insulting.

My cousin has autism - he is 20 years old but obsessed with peppa pig, bluey and thomas the tank engine. Only just about learning to dress himself, manage money, and tell the time.
Autism is not a hidden disability like some people like to claim. You can tell by looking at my cousin, and the children he went school with, that they are autistic. They all have that same face, that wide baby-like look in their eyes. They are children in the bodies of adults, unable to care for themselves. Poor social skills is just one part of it.

But you can tell these girls are not autistic - they don't have the autistic face. Maybe they were not the popular kids, and maybe they were bullied, or socially awkward around their crushes, but thats just a part of growing up and learning to fit in. Not autism

Autism is a neurodevelopmental disability and you can’t tell if someone is autistic or not by looking at their face . The presence of certain facial features do not form part of the diagnostic criteria for autism either. Also, autism is a spectrum. Not everyone who is autistic is a ‘child in an adults body’ who is incapable of living independently and has severe developmental delays.
What you’ve described is just an outdated stereotype of what autism supposedly looks like, but there are currently millions of autistic people in the world who do not fit that stereotype at all. Same goes for any type of disability.

 

[thegirlscout]

I don’t understand the hate that LGB Alliance has had. Ok they don’t include trans people but there are so many trans only organisations but hardly any for purely same sex attraction.

 

[judgejohndeed]

@Ensay Yeah, on the GC thread I take breaks every now and then. The last break I took was because I felt like I constantly had to hold my tongue at some of the takes I was seeing on that thread.

I've ducked out of that one for the same reason, every time I clicked it was homophobia disguised as women's rights.
I think sadly things will get a lot worse for LGB people yet. It's a kind of double jeopardy because LGB people are harmed by the whole 'same sex attraction is transphobic' in and of itself, but those who are very much 'with the T' are going to get tarred with the same brush, it's really sad to see.

 

[JustHereForTheAgriculture]

I don't get how people understand asexual and aromatic but don't understand you can be emotionally bi lol. Every person on earth emotionally is more attracted to to their own sex. I know people (mainly men) get butthurt but everyone is either bi or gay. I think there are still a lot of religious people and people in denial. Maybe when the boomers die people will understand it's okay to be emotionally attracted to the same sex.

So…just normal friendships then?

 

[JustHereForTheAgriculture]

Also use of the word queer as I always understood it to be derogatory.

I was actually wanting to bring this up and see what other people thought.

For me, I absolutely hate the word queer. I’ve never been one to believe in reclaiming slurs. Though in this case I don’t think it’s a case of reclaiming a slur but more for certain other groups using it to hijack and lack onto peoples acceptance of the gay community.
Either way, I hate how ‘queer community’, ‘queer people/spaces’ etc is becoming the norm.
I find it really offensive. I wouldn’t tolerate being called a dyke but I’m supposed to accept being called queer? No thank you.

Great avatar by the way

 

[FogOfWar]

I don’t like “queer” and would never use it. It seems to have a slippery, catch-all and yet meaningless quality when applied to sexuality, and the more literal idea of if being “not normal” is unpleasant to apply to the various sexualities.

 

[HockyRorror]

I HATE “queer” and the irony that most “queers” by the definition of the word these days are heterosexual is not lost on me.