LGB Discussion

[gisellejoly]

Marriage is not the only way of having a legal contract with your partner - I am a (hetro) woman and have a legal arrangement with my (male) partner. I have never wanted to marry, we have property and businesses etc, so we went to a solicitor and he drafted an agreement for us, we are jointly and separately liable etc and have similar rights as a married couple.
I don't see that any religion supports gay rights, so I don't see why gay people want a religious service - surely a civil service is a better option. But each to their own and all that.

There are quite a few Christian denominations that will marry gay couples, for example unitarians, as it fits into their belief system. I totally agree with you though, I find gay people who criticise centuries or thousands year old religions for not marrying them ridiculous. We can’t control the beliefs of others. Any gay person who is a devout follower of a religion would agree. It’s mainly the ones who arent even actively involved in a faith that complain about it.

 

[Metropolis]

Has anyone actually said that though? I remember writing it to you in a way to say “imagine if this happened” as an example of how it happens to lesbians, but I don’t recall anyone telling you you must sleep with trans men??

As an alternative example, I’ll give this: There’s a charity/prize fund for gay men to get into building, because the building industry feels it needs to extend its diversity quota. The winner is a married (to a woman) man of 40, with four kids. He identifies as queer. He wins 10 grand.

In what way is that fair to gay men? And don’t say things like this wouldn’t happen. Because they have.

There was that case a few years ago where a transman took it upon themselves to attend a sauna that caters exclusively to same sex attracted males. Of course no one was going to force any of the men there to engage in sexual activity with the transman, but the implication is that the men should view this person with female anatomy as a sexual prospect in the same way as they would the other males. I can imagine that a homosexual male would be affronted by a naked female frequenting a place where they go to hook up. Indeed, one of the men complained about the presence of the female. Yet the gay sauna was made to apologise for asking the transman to leave and is now obliged to admit transmen. It is not inconceivable that a few years down the line that spaces set up exclusively for gay men will have a clientele that includes a proportion of females. It’s already happening in lesbian bars. I can’t fathom how gay people would be okay with this.

 

[HeadlessPostman]

just came across this site, while i'm not super religious myself, these stories are interesting

LEON JONCK — CHANGED Movement

Today, I feel a long lasting, inner peace that I know only comes from God.

changedmovement.com

 

[HockyRorror]

You said nothing wrong, the post you replied to did make it sound like lesbians had it better, it stated nothing about the history of how women where treated at that time as a whole (and still now) but suddenly you was given a history lesson after replying to a post that is actually an urban myth

Hate to drag it out longer than necessary but really have to disagree after reading your comment

Don’t see in any way how what I wrote in response to @Ensay post was me saying lesbian women had it better.

 

[HockyRorror]

I just feel like you sometimes enjoy being antagonistic.

One man’s antagonistic is another man’s opinions. Do you seriously think that as a gay man I think your feelings as a gay man don’t matter?

 

[HockyRorror]

Oof, snarky, provoke-y vibe on here today or what!!!! I read yesterday that on average in the UK people use their smartphones for 4.5 hours a day, most of that scrolling the internet and sm. That's average, so for some it's much more (or, equivalently, less). Time for this Owl to ditch the phone and head for calmer panoramas xx

I did a Google to see if it was a full moon it’s not. (Although the next full moon is the 31st and today is the 13th make of that what you will…)
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Well, he claims he wasn't aware when he was invited. Though it was arguably up to him to research that before going.

So what? I can’t believe someone would be so rude to publicly trash a countries government and rules live on stage. It’s just so arrogant, and as ppl have pointed out, western arrogance thinking they can talk about stuff like this without consequence - meanwhile, it’s had very real consequences for LGB ppl living there, which will affect the next few decades at the very least, but at least a washed up brit got to kiss his same sex band member on stage and then flew home

But eh, I can't get worked up about it. Some of these countries need it calling out.

Just wondering, do you apply the same fairness to people who travel from other countries to the UK who come to give the UK a “calling out” about the UK’s liberal stance on gay rights?

 

[Ensay]

That’s the same woman, but I’m sure the documentary I saw was on Channel 4

Ah okay, you said TED Talk, so I thought you meant that one.

But I think there was something on UK TV, so maybe that's what you mean. I know Louis Theroux did two documentaries on the family, but I think they were both done when she was still a member of the church.

 

[HockyRorror]

I remember watching that when it was originally shown. Two things concerned me - the first obviously being what was happening there, but the second thing was how under-reported it's been.

I'm sure the average person would have no idea and it angered me that it hasn't got more exposure. Why aren't more people aware of it and also angry about it?

The fact it was squirreled away on BBC Four (for both the original airing in 2020 and the repeat) speaks volumes, too.

Did you see the bit about Anya, and the pop star who are still missing? I had no idea about that either. I thought the deep fake technology was so clever the way they used it and was so shocked when he was “revealed”. To be fair re: BBC4, looking it up it was made in conjunction with BBC Storyville which Google says is a BBC4 production/company. I think people were suitably horrified when it first broke, I remember seeing lots about Chechnya when the guy (can’t remember his name) got into power and the purge was happening, though didn’t know about this doc

Italian here, while we are certainly not a progressive country on social issues, I do believe that the election result wasn't due to overwhelming popular support to the Fratelli d'Italia party and their views specifically, as much as to a general distaste for any other party and for the fact that we had to vote in the first place.

Only 63% of Italians voted in this election. It's the lowest attendance rate in our history. So that already indicates that a lot of people were not interested at all in who's governing, they probably were just fine with Draghi and wanted him to continue, and they just couldn't be bothered with the whole thing. The people who didn't vote are more likely to be the moderates, who feel neutral about a lot of issues, who probably would support social issues like gay marriage if it came to voting about it but aren't really passionate about it otherwise, who supported Draghi because he's a respectable figure with moderate views who seemed well equipped to handle the crises we are facing.

That 63% includes all the people who voted blank, and I suspect it was a lot of them. That's because many many people feel that the former parties in power (PD, Lega, FI, Movimento 5 stelle) were completely inept and useless when they were governing, did nothing for those who supported them, pretty much let us down in a crisis, and essentially sold off the whole country by causing the government to fall at such a critical point in time, just for a chance to be more involved in the next government when Meloni inevitably won the elections.
All of the parties that were previously in power underperformed at the elections.
PD did better than the others because they are the only "realistic" leftist party that we have. But even then I think that they have really detached themselves from their traditional base and that a lot of people who would have normally voted for them either voted for Meloni or didn't vote at all, because they don't feel represented by them anymore.

Fratelli d'Italia has been an opposition party for a long time and it was obvious from the start that they would win, if only because a lot of people are fed up with all the other major parties that have been in power for about a decade. Social issues like gay marriage or immigration were not at the forefront of the political debate in the last few months, which was mostly dominated by our stance towards the EU and NATO and in the Ukrainian crisis and the energetic crisis which are more topical issues.

TL;DR: I think that Meloni's victory says more about a lack of better candidates, a fatigue with the current status quo, and a general disaffection with the elections among the moderates that ultimately only gave more power to the extremists, rather than about the popular opinion on social issues.

That’s really interesting, thanks for sharing that