Language Learners

[karpusha]

I'm learning Italian by myself. My main motivation is the desire to read books and articles on the Internet, watch movies, listen to podcasts, etc. — all passive activities. I don't really want to talk to anyone lol. I'm an introvert and tend to avoid improving my speaking skills, although it would be nice to travel to Italy some day and be able to survive there.

I'm using Duolingo, but it mostly just helps me to keep my progress. Without Duo I would be making long breaks (sometimes weeks or even months), during which I would forget everything, and Duo kinda helps me to keep my Italian fresh and to make tiny progress every day. But when I'm in that "hell yeah I'm ready to conquer the language, I'll start learning every day, make vocabulary lists and read books" phase, I like to use graded readers. They contain limited vocabulary (500-1000 words at A1-A2 level), so I just read them, learn all the new words with the help of google translate, then re-read again and listen to an audiobook if it's available. New words I write down in a notebook as the very process of writing them helps me to memorise them better.
That's basically it... I want to achieve a higher level and dive in authentic materials!

I'm also learning English (my first language is Russian). Right now I'm reading the second book of "A Song of Ice and Fire", and I'm enjoying it tremendously!! It's just so comforting to "live" in a world where tit happens but eventually the good wins and baddies get killed. And the language is so good, simple yet challenging at times (for me at least).

 

[StatusWoe]

I'm also learning English (my first language is Russian).

Your English is good. I wouldn't have known it was your second language.

I struggle with speaking skills, partly because I feel self-conscious, but also because my accent is never very good! Does anyone have advice about how to improve accent in a foreign language?

 

[karpusha]

Your English is good. I wouldn't have known it was your second language.

Wow, thank you! I always struggle with articles and tenses, so I wasn't sure I wrote everything correctly.
I would also like to listen to other people's opinions on the second part of your post I'm super shy and socially anxious, so it always feels like a heroic deed to speak to people in my target language!

 

[WeepingCassandra]

Does anyone have any advice on German? And om balancing work and studying languages?

Long time learner of German here. I think the best thing you can do is learn how the pronunciation works and how to split a word into its parts - German loves a compound and if you can break those down you’ll be able to understand a lot of really complex things.

There’s also a really good way of learning articles - I can’t remember off the top of my head but certain categories of object are always masculine, same with feminine and (much less common) neuter. If you can learn those broad categories you’ll get the gender correct most of the time.

 

[Romy]

Your English is good. I wouldn't have known it was your second language.

I struggle with speaking skills, partly because I feel self-conscious, but also because my accent is never very good! Does anyone have advice about how to improve accent in a foreign language?

If you like songs in the language you are learning, sing them on the music with the subtitles on. And all that has already been said, like watching series or films with subtitles.
And then practising with real people (in their country preferably), obviously.
Most people feel self-conscious speaking in a "new" foreign language, especially if you're a bit shy.

 

[colouredlines]

Your English is good. I wouldn't have known it was your second language.

I struggle with speaking skills, partly because I feel self-conscious, but also because my accent is never very good! Does anyone have advice about how to improve accent in a foreign language?

TBH the best thing you can do is just practise speaking as much as possible - but at the same time, ensure you're actively listening to the other person's pronunciation, so you can do your best to emulate it. I agree with the above post about music, I've found that it helps me a lot. Not just with pronunciation and listening, also with grammar and vocabulary because lyrics are easy to remember.

More specifically for you, the most common problems for English speakers in Spanish tend to be:

Spoiler: long, skip over if you're not learning Spanish

* the neutral vowel. The most common sound in the English language is the schwa, /ə/. Most English speakers aren't even really aware of it - it's the first vowel in about, the second vowel in lemon, something that English speakers who don't know phonetics might transcribe as "uh". We use it all the time, in almost every word with 2+ syllables. We also often pronounce prepositions and modal verbs with the schwa. It doesn't exist in Spanish, but English speakers tend to use it unconsciously a lot. This relates to stress timing vs syllable timing. Look it up if you're not sure what I mean - basically in English we time our speech according to the words that are most important, but in Spanish every syllable has equal timing. If you use the schwa and apply English stress timing to Spanish, you'll sound like you're mumbling and people will often have a hard time understanding you.

That is the single most important thing for English speakers learning Spanish, and by far the most common problem I see regularly. Everything else I have here is window dressing - but I'll note it down anyway, as it might be useful.

* single r in Spanish should see your tongue tap on the roof of your mouth. If you have a rhotic accent it will be easier. If your accent is non-rhotic, you'll need to practise a lot, because it can feel very awkward, particularly with words that have r before another consonant, or with words that end in r (like...every infinitive in the whole language ).

* double r or r at the start of a word is trilled. Again, this depends a bit on your native accent - I grew up in one of the few parts of the English-speaking world with a trilled r so I find it easy, but I know a lot of English speakers really struggle and have to practise it a lot.

* d in Spanish is formed with the tongue touching the back of the top teeth (in English the tongue is further back). That's why Madrid will often sound, to English speaking ears, more like Madrith.

* v and b are identical, and more like an English b. People will understand if you pronounce v like in English, but it's a big thing to work on if you want to reduce your accent (I would say it's sort of like a German saying v instead of w in English - we all understand but it's an instant tell).

* ll should have a distinctive y sound. I often hear English speakers saying, for example, "tortía" when they want to say tortilla. Make sure you are vocalising the consonant sound.

* syllable stress is a LOT more important in Spanish than in English: vino is totally different from vinó. People make mistakes here all the time. Active listening is crucial, along with emulating the stress the other person uses.

* the vowel sounds in Spanish are simple because there are so few of them, but they're hard for native English speakers because the exact sounds don't exist in English. I've come to terms with the fact that I'll never master them perfectly...but one thing we can master is keeping that their pronunciation regular. So for example most English speakers will pronounce Granada with the exact same vowel pattern that we use in banana, with the central a being notably different. In Spanish all 3 of the syllables are completely regular, with the same vowel sound.

That's a lot to take in, I know! The first point is by far the most important. I spent a long time working on eliminating the schwa and speaking with syllable timing rather than stress timing. Occasionally when I am very anxious or really tired I slip up, and people will look at me with "wtf" expressions - it really makes a difference.

Practice is essential. With regards to feeling self-conscious...there were a few times, years ago now, when people laughed at me or mocked my accent and it really knocked my confidence...but those occasions were very rare. In my experience, the vast majority of people are just really happy when you make an effort.

 

[MarthaFarkus]

Great thread! I’m learning Turkish on Duolingo as my friend is Turkish, his English isn’t bad but it’s only fair that I try and give him a break when we’re talking to each other It’s an interesting language and I’m really enjoying it.

 

[StatusWoe]

TBH the best thing you can do is just practise speaking as much as possible - but at the same time, ensure you're actively listening to the other person's pronunciation, so you can do your best to emulate it. I agree with the above post about music, I've found that it helps me a lot. Not just with pronunciation and listening, also with grammar and vocabulary because lyrics are easy to remember.

More specifically for you, the most common problems for English speakers in Spanish tend to be:

Spoiler: long, skip over if you're not learning Spanish

* the neutral vowel. The most common sound in the English language is the schwa, /ə/. Most English speakers aren't even really aware of it - it's the first vowel in about, the second vowel in lemon, something that English speakers who don't know phonetics might transcribe as "uh". We use it all the time, in almost every word with 2+ syllables. We also often pronounce prepositions and modal verbs with the schwa. It doesn't exist in Spanish, but English speakers tend to use it unconsciously a lot. This relates to stress timing vs syllable timing. Look it up if you're not sure what I mean - basically in English we time our speech according to the words that are most important, but in Spanish every syllable has equal timing. If you use the schwa and apply English stress timing to Spanish, you'll sound like you're mumbling and people will often have a hard time understanding you.

That is the single most important thing for English speakers learning Spanish, and by far the most common problem I see regularly. Everything else I have here is window dressing - but I'll note it down anyway, as it might be useful.

* single r in Spanish should see your tongue tap on the roof of your mouth. If you have a rhotic accent it will be easier. If your accent is non-rhotic, you'll need to practise a lot, because it can feel very awkward, particularly with words that have r before another consonant, or with words that end in r (like...every infinitive in the whole language ).

* double r or r at the start of a word is trilled. Again, this depends a bit on your native accent - I grew up in one of the few parts of the English-speaking world with a trilled r so I find it easy, but I know a lot of English speakers really struggle and have to practise it a lot.

* d in Spanish is formed with the tongue touching the back of the top teeth (in English the tongue is further back). That's why Madrid will often sound, to English speaking ears, more like Madrith.

* v and b are identical, and more like an English b. People will understand if you pronounce v like in English, but it's a big thing to work on if you want to reduce your accent (I would say it's sort of like a German saying v instead of w in English - we all understand but it's an instant tell).

* ll should have a distinctive y sound. I often hear English speakers saying, for example, "tortía" when they want to say tortilla. Make sure you are vocalising the consonant sound.

* syllable stress is a LOT more important in Spanish than in English: vino is totally different from vinó. People make mistakes here all the time. Active listening is crucial, along with emulating the stress the other person uses.

* the vowel sounds in Spanish are simple because there are so few of them, but they're hard for native English speakers because the exact sounds don't exist in English. I've come to terms with the fact that I'll never master them perfectly...but one thing we can master is keeping that their pronunciation regular. So for example most English speakers will pronounce Granada with the exact same vowel pattern that we use in banana, with the central a being notably different. In Spanish all 3 of the syllables are completely regular, with the same vowel sound.

That's a lot to take in, I know! The first point is by far the most important. I spent a long time working on eliminating the schwa and speaking with syllable timing rather than stress timing. Occasionally when I am very anxious or really tired I slip up, and people will look at me with "wtf" expressions - it really makes a difference.

Practice is essential. With regards to feeling self-conscious...there were a few times, years ago now, when people laughed at me or mocked my accent and it really knocked my confidence...but those occasions were very rare. In my experience, the vast majority of people are just really happy when you make an effort.

Just wanted to say a big thank you for all these tips! It's exactly the kind of advice I need at the moment. I've definitely been struggling with the double 'r' at the beginning of words. It's a sound that's completely unfamiliar to me. And yep, I would pronounce tortilla as "tortía" Think I've finally got the hang of syllable stress - listening to lots of Spanish music/native speakers helps with that.

I'm also trying to figure out where in the English-speaking world has a trilled 'r' sound.

 

[Romy]

TBH the best thing you can do is just practise speaking as much as possible - but at the same time, ensure you're actively listening to the other person's pronunciation, so you can do your best to emulate it. I agree with the above post about music, I've found that it helps me a lot. Not just with pronunciation and listening, also with grammar and vocabulary because lyrics are easy to remember.

More specifically for you, the most common problems for English speakers in Spanish tend to be:

Spoiler: long, skip over if you're not learning Spanish

* the neutral vowel. The most common sound in the English language is the schwa, /ə/. Most English speakers aren't even really aware of it - it's the first vowel in about, the second vowel in lemon, something that English speakers who don't know phonetics might transcribe as "uh". We use it all the time, in almost every word with 2+ syllables. We also often pronounce prepositions and modal verbs with the schwa. It doesn't exist in Spanish, but English speakers tend to use it unconsciously a lot. This relates to stress timing vs syllable timing. Look it up if you're not sure what I mean - basically in English we time our speech according to the words that are most important, but in Spanish every syllable has equal timing. If you use the schwa and apply English stress timing to Spanish, you'll sound like you're mumbling and people will often have a hard time understanding you.

That is the single most important thing for English speakers learning Spanish, and by far the most common problem I see regularly. Everything else I have here is window dressing - but I'll note it down anyway, as it might be useful.

* single r in Spanish should see your tongue tap on the roof of your mouth. If you have a rhotic accent it will be easier. If your accent is non-rhotic, you'll need to practise a lot, because it can feel very awkward, particularly with words that have r before another consonant, or with words that end in r (like...every infinitive in the whole language ).

* double r or r at the start of a word is trilled. Again, this depends a bit on your native accent - I grew up in one of the few parts of the English-speaking world with a trilled r so I find it easy, but I know a lot of English speakers really struggle and have to practise it a lot.

* d in Spanish is formed with the tongue touching the back of the top teeth (in English the tongue is further back). That's why Madrid will often sound, to English speaking ears, more like Madrith.

* v and b are identical, and more like an English b. People will understand if you pronounce v like in English, but it's a big thing to work on if you want to reduce your accent (I would say it's sort of like a German saying v instead of w in English - we all understand but it's an instant tell).

* ll should have a distinctive y sound. I often hear English speakers saying, for example, "tortía" when they want to say tortilla. Make sure you are vocalising the consonant sound.

* syllable stress is a LOT more important in Spanish than in English: vino is totally different from vinó. People make mistakes here all the time. Active listening is crucial, along with emulating the stress the other person uses.

* the vowel sounds in Spanish are simple because there are so few of them, but they're hard for native English speakers because the exact sounds don't exist in English. I've come to terms with the fact that I'll never master them perfectly...but one thing we can master is keeping that their pronunciation regular. So for example most English speakers will pronounce Granada with the exact same vowel pattern that we use in banana, with the central a being notably different. In Spanish all 3 of the syllables are completely regular, with the same vowel sound.

That's a lot to take in, I know! The first point is by far the most important. I spent a long time working on eliminating the schwa and speaking with syllable timing rather than stress timing. Occasionally when I am very anxious or really tired I slip up, and people will look at me with "wtf" expressions - it really makes a difference.

Practice is essential. With regards to feeling self-conscious...there were a few times, years ago now, when people laughed at me or mocked my accent and it really knocked my confidence...but those occasions were very rare. In my experience, the vast majority of people are just really happy when you make an effort.

The way to pronounce Madrid is quite regional. Some will pronounce it as Madrid, others Madrith, others Madree (lmagine an accent on the final), others Madrit.

 

[StatusWoe]

The way to pronounce Madrid is quite regional. Some will pronounce it as Madrid, others Madrith, others Madree (lmagine an accent on the final), others Madrit.

I've come across a few regional differences in pronounciation. I noticed a thing where people will say a 'j' sound instead of a 'y'. For example, 'yo' would be pronouned more like 'jo'. Not sure if that's a feature of South American Spanish because I haven't heard it in Spain?

 

[Romy]

The way to pronounce Madrid is quite regional. Some will pronounce it as Madrid, others Madrith, others Madree (lmagine an accent on the final), others Madrit.

trilled r is "rolled" r?
Scottish people seem to roll the r

 

[Deeznutslol]

I’m trying to learn Catalan at the moment and finding it a challenge tbh, I can read a lot of it and figure out what a lot of things mean when they’re written down as I speak Spanish, but I find it difficult to understand anything when I hear it spoken!!

 

[colouredlines]

I've come across a few regional differences in pronounciation. I noticed a thing where people will say a 'j' sound instead of a 'y'. For example, 'yo' would be pronouned more like 'jo'. Not sure if that's a feature of South American Spanish because I haven't heard it in Spain?

It happens in Spain too, it's not related to any particular country/region. BTW Argentinians pronounce it "sho" (ll and y are like sh there), which take some getting used to.

I’m trying to learn Catalan at the moment and finding it a challenge tbh, I can read a lot of it and figure out what a lot of things mean when they’re written down as I speak Spanish, but I find it difficult to understand anything when I hear it spoken!!

I'm a native English speaker, but Catalan is by far the language I speak the most in my daily life. Pronunciation is a lot more complex than Spanish (grammar is harder too because of pronoms febles).

The funny thing is that once you get used to it, the pronunciation is actually easier for English speakers than Spanish pronunciation is, because Catalan uses the neutral vowel (well, eastern Catalan does, but that's a can of worms...). Words that end with ny or start/end with ll are awkward to get the hang of though.

There's a very good online resource at parla.cat that I recommend. If you sign up for self-study the courses are free. It's been a few years since I used them but I found them really handy. They're pretty thorough, and they point out false friends and castellanismes.

 

[Romy]

I've come across a few regional differences in pronounciation. I noticed a thing where people will say a 'j' sound instead of a 'y'. For example, 'yo' would be pronouned more like 'jo'. Not sure if that's a feature of South American Spanish because I haven't heard it in Spain?

actually yo is pronounced a bit like djo lol but it's very subtle.
I think those that pronounce it stronger are the same that pronounce the ll like a mix of ch and j, so Argentinians, Uruguayans but also Andalusians from Sevilla, and maybe others idk.
Only in Spain, you find an incredible variety of accents and pronunciations actually, including in a same region, even in local languages other than Castillian (at least in Galician). A spanish person who grew up in Spain would tell you better. I was born in France to Spanish parents (from Galicia), so I speak fluently French, Spanish, Galician (and Italian for other reasons lol) since childhood. And then I learned English at school like everyone and I'm fluent too now but not at the same level obviously (much less practise and vocabulary, and my accent is naturally not as good as in the other languages).
Also did 6 years of German at school but it was a choice by default and I don't remember much.

 

[colouredlines]

Only in Spain, you find an incredible variety of accents and pronunciations actually, including in a same region, even in local languages other than Castillian (at least in Galician).

Galician has so many regional varieties, it's amazing. Sadly I just have a basic level - I lived in Galicia for a few years but in a big city where it was really rare to hear anything but Spanish in public. A lot of my Galician friends are very into orgullo galego though, so I have lots of opportunities to practise, and lately I am really into a lot of Galician music. It took me sooo long to understand gheada, my brain just wasn't getting it! I used to work with a guy born in London to Galician parents. He spoke English with a real cockney accent and Galician and Spanish with a rural Ourense accent, and people would freak out at the difference!

Catalan is similar to Galician in terms of variety - it's very easy to pinpoint where someone is from quite specifically, and there are lots of words that are only used in particular towns.

I've been meaning to learn French as I'd like to travel more in France, but I keep putting it off. Maybe starting that can be my project over the winter...

 

[FullFatWater2021]

I'm trying to learn Dutch as my partner is from the Netherlands and speaks better English than me along with French and German. I was born in England too but he knows words that I don't! Friends and Family say he doesn't have a Dutch accent and has the same English accent as me? Anyway I digress...

I'm using DuoLingo and I already knew some Dutch from the years we've been together plus not many of his family speak English so I can try to speak to them a bit too. Just doing my 3 minute lesson most days and I do drop the odd sentence in to my partner too when I feel brave.

At school I was predicted to get an A in French but didn't revise and got a B. I still remember some French and probably should give that a try too as I feel more confident and can speak more of it.

I don't practise languages with my partner as he is fluent and fast and I need time plus he prefers English when with me. The French accent though is dreamy.

 

[Romy]

Galician has so many regional varieties, it's amazing. Sadly I just have a basic level - I lived in Galicia for a few years but in a big city where it was really rare to hear anything but Spanish in public. A lot of my Galician friends are very into orgullo galego though, so I have lots of opportunities to practise, and lately I am really into a lot of Galician music. It took me sooo long to understand gheada, my brain just wasn't getting it! I used to work with a guy born in London to Galician parents. He spoke English with a real cockney accent and Galician and Spanish with a rural Ourense accent, and people would freak out at the difference!

Catalan is similar to Galician in terms of variety - it's very easy to pinpoint where someone is from quite specifically, and there are lots of words that are only used in particular towns.

I've been meaning to learn French as I'd like to travel more in France, but I keep putting it off. Maybe starting that can be my project over the winter...

Oh I didn't expect that
In the cities, the notables used to speak only Castillian as Galician was seen as a peasant thing (although they ALL have the same roots and understand perfectly). It's more fancy now lol
I am a bit like your friend. When I am in Spain outside Galicia, some people are astonished I speak with a strong Galician accent because I didn't grow up there (although I spent one year with my grandparents before school... and all my summers there). What accent do they expect me to have? from another Spanish region ? haha It makes no sense. It's not like I live in another Spanish speaking country or Spanish region. The funny thing is my family don't think I have a strong Galician accent.
My father was from the coast (Rias Baixas) and mum was from the interior (Southern Provincia de Lugo, near Provincia de Ourense) and it's strangely different in terms of landscapes, climate, language, even mentality, but both beautiful.

I didn't know for the Catalan.

The difficulty in French language is the grammar maybe. The exceptions. And there are multiple ways to write the same sound. For example "o" can be written o, au, aux, eau, eaux, even a....

 

[Laughingforlife]

Your English is good. I wouldn't have known it was your second language.

I struggle with speaking skills, partly because I feel self-conscious, but also because my accent is never very good! Does anyone have advice about how to improve accent in a foreign language?

I am about 4 months late. The easiest way is to just listen to people speaking it. Watch documentaries on the country, and perhaps there'll be some speakers in there. Over time, you get used to the accent and how the letters are said and everything.
I did this with Russian. Although there's a lot of material out there on that country

 

[Polythene Pam]

What a great thread. I need to catch up on all the posts but thought I'd introduce myself, as it were.

I am learning French. Currently self teaching (duolingo, podcasts, and reading children's books) but plan to join an evening class later in the year.

I have a seven month old and I would love for her to learn a language from a young age, so I am brushing up on my French. I was always good at it at school and I love to travel to France.

I'm struggling with the grammar a bit. Memorising what is masculine and what's feminine. Oh an my accent is dreadful... but getting better!

 

[Laughingforlife]

The other night I was demonstrating how Duolingo works to a friend, as she wants to try some Spanish.
I decided to go with russian because that's what I know, and it was really quite hilarious stuff.
"where is the bicycle?"
"my rucksack is in the metro"
So that's useful, isn't it?
Are all the sentences as mad as that on beginners Duolingo for every language?