Language Learners

[PollyPerks]

Hello! This looks like the thread for me I'm currently learning Polish and absolutely loving it. My best friend is Polish and he is a bit of a language geek like me, so we would very often end up having conversations about the intricacies of the language. This got me curious and I started learning Polish on Duolingo. Eventually my friend suggested to me that I get myself the same Polish text book that his husband has, and he set up Saturday morning classes on Teams where he teaches his husband and me Polish using the teaching materials from the books. It's so much fun!

So my reason is basically 'for fun' and because I love the idea of one day being able to have a conversation with my friend in his native language. I would never have thought of learning Polish before we became friends but I'm so happy to have discovered it as it's an incredible language. Having studied quite a few languages before I keep picking up elements of other languages in it - Latin, German, even French. And there's so many things that seem infuriatingly complicated - for example, a case system that relies not only on the position of a noun in the sentence but whether you're speaking positively or negatively about the noun! - but each time I discover something bizarre it just makes me more determined to master it!

I've also discovered that every time I meet someone Polish and tell them I'm learning the language, their first reaction is 'why on earth would you do that??' before they then proceed to tell me at length all the ways in which Polish is a special and amazing language

 

[StatusWoe]

I thought I'd create a thread for the language learners of Tattle. This includes people who are self-teaching, in formal education, and those who are learning just for fun. Hopefully this can be a place where members can share tips and support each other.

I'm doing Spanish again after a long break. I took the GCSE at school (long time ago now) and a night class, but I'd like to improve beyond that basic level. I find the grammar easier than most languages I've studied, but my accent is terrible. Sometimes listening is hard because it's spoken so fast. I've been listening to lots of Spanish and Latin American music and consider this revision.

• Which language/s are you studying?
• What are your reasons for learning that particular language?
• How are you finding it so far? What do you like about the language? Any aspects you're struggling with?

 

[colouredlines]

Your English is good. I wouldn't have known it was your second language.

I struggle with speaking skills, partly because I feel self-conscious, but also because my accent is never very good! Does anyone have advice about how to improve accent in a foreign language?

TBH the best thing you can do is just practise speaking as much as possible - but at the same time, ensure you're actively listening to the other person's pronunciation, so you can do your best to emulate it. I agree with the above post about music, I've found that it helps me a lot. Not just with pronunciation and listening, also with grammar and vocabulary because lyrics are easy to remember.

More specifically for you, the most common problems for English speakers in Spanish tend to be:

Spoiler: long, skip over if you're not learning Spanish

* the neutral vowel. The most common sound in the English language is the schwa, /ə/. Most English speakers aren't even really aware of it - it's the first vowel in about, the second vowel in lemon, something that English speakers who don't know phonetics might transcribe as "uh". We use it all the time, in almost every word with 2+ syllables. We also often pronounce prepositions and modal verbs with the schwa. It doesn't exist in Spanish, but English speakers tend to use it unconsciously a lot. This relates to stress timing vs syllable timing. Look it up if you're not sure what I mean - basically in English we time our speech according to the words that are most important, but in Spanish every syllable has equal timing. If you use the schwa and apply English stress timing to Spanish, you'll sound like you're mumbling and people will often have a hard time understanding you.

That is the single most important thing for English speakers learning Spanish, and by far the most common problem I see regularly. Everything else I have here is window dressing - but I'll note it down anyway, as it might be useful.

* single r in Spanish should see your tongue tap on the roof of your mouth. If you have a rhotic accent it will be easier. If your accent is non-rhotic, you'll need to practise a lot, because it can feel very awkward, particularly with words that have r before another consonant, or with words that end in r (like...every infinitive in the whole language ).

* double r or r at the start of a word is trilled. Again, this depends a bit on your native accent - I grew up in one of the few parts of the English-speaking world with a trilled r so I find it easy, but I know a lot of English speakers really struggle and have to practise it a lot.

* d in Spanish is formed with the tongue touching the back of the top teeth (in English the tongue is further back). That's why Madrid will often sound, to English speaking ears, more like Madrith.

* v and b are identical, and more like an English b. People will understand if you pronounce v like in English, but it's a big thing to work on if you want to reduce your accent (I would say it's sort of like a German saying v instead of w in English - we all understand but it's an instant tell).

* ll should have a distinctive y sound. I often hear English speakers saying, for example, "tortía" when they want to say tortilla. Make sure you are vocalising the consonant sound.

* syllable stress is a LOT more important in Spanish than in English: vino is totally different from vinó. People make mistakes here all the time. Active listening is crucial, along with emulating the stress the other person uses.

* the vowel sounds in Spanish are simple because there are so few of them, but they're hard for native English speakers because the exact sounds don't exist in English. I've come to terms with the fact that I'll never master them perfectly...but one thing we can master is keeping that their pronunciation regular. So for example most English speakers will pronounce Granada with the exact same vowel pattern that we use in banana, with the central a being notably different. In Spanish all 3 of the syllables are completely regular, with the same vowel sound.

That's a lot to take in, I know! The first point is by far the most important. I spent a long time working on eliminating the schwa and speaking with syllable timing rather than stress timing. Occasionally when I am very anxious or really tired I slip up, and people will look at me with "wtf" expressions - it really makes a difference.

Practice is essential. With regards to feeling self-conscious...there were a few times, years ago now, when people laughed at me or mocked my accent and it really knocked my confidence...but those occasions were very rare. In my experience, the vast majority of people are just really happy when you make an effort.

 

[Ensay]

Mostly French. Like most people, I learnt it at GCSE and really enjoyed it. My teacher was very disappointed I didn't go on to do it at A Level, but I always said I'd try to keep my skills up. I mostly do the modules on Duolingo and having the knowledge I gained from GCSE was vital to that, as I think learning a language from scratch in Duolingo is pretty hard.

My reasons are mostly due to being able to speak it when I visit France (or anything other French speaking country), but also because I find that learning another language also helps improve my English. Being a native speaker, there are lots of things I didn't even realise about my own language until I learnt another.

I find I've hit a bit of a plateau. It's like I can cope with complexity up to a certain point, but then when I go above that, I lose confidence and keep forgetting things. I need to get better at tenses as well.

I've also learnt a very small amount of Welsh on Duolingo -- mostly because I was going on holiday to a predominately Welsh speaking area of North Wales and thought I may get the chance to use a few basic phrases (I didn't as it turned out!) and also to learn the basic pronunciation rules. I also learnt how to say the longest Welsh town name just to see if I could really. I doubt I'll progress my learning very far in Welsh, but I've enjoyed giving it a go!

 

[Laughingforlife]

I can 100% confirm this! I was using it over summer to start learning French and it kept asking me to say “are you a horse?” A totally normal conversation starter, non? I switched back to books after that but I still quite like the mini podcasts on DuoLingo if you’re subscribed. They’re quite handy for learning pronunciation!

Another friend did Spanish a few years ago on it and it said "Are you machine?"
and also "I am a lion. I eat people"

 

[karpusha]

I'm learning Italian by myself. My main motivation is the desire to read books and articles on the Internet, watch movies, listen to podcasts, etc. — all passive activities. I don't really want to talk to anyone lol. I'm an introvert and tend to avoid improving my speaking skills, although it would be nice to travel to Italy some day and be able to survive there.

I'm using Duolingo, but it mostly just helps me to keep my progress. Without Duo I would be making long breaks (sometimes weeks or even months), during which I would forget everything, and Duo kinda helps me to keep my Italian fresh and to make tiny progress every day. But when I'm in that "hell yeah I'm ready to conquer the language, I'll start learning every day, make vocabulary lists and read books" phase, I like to use graded readers. They contain limited vocabulary (500-1000 words at A1-A2 level), so I just read them, learn all the new words with the help of google translate, then re-read again and listen to an audiobook if it's available. New words I write down in a notebook as the very process of writing them helps me to memorise them better.
That's basically it... I want to achieve a higher level and dive in authentic materials!

I'm also learning English (my first language is Russian). Right now I'm reading the second book of "A Song of Ice and Fire", and I'm enjoying it tremendously!! It's just so comforting to "live" in a world where shit happens but eventually the good wins and baddies get killed. And the language is so good, simple yet challenging at times (for me at least).

 

[Polythene Pam]

What a great thread. I need to catch up on all the posts but thought I'd introduce myself, as it were.

I am learning French. Currently self teaching (duolingo, podcasts, and reading children's books) but plan to join an evening class later in the year.

I have a seven month old and I would love for her to learn a language from a young age, so I am brushing up on my French. I was always good at it at school and I love to travel to France.

I'm struggling with the grammar a bit. Memorising what is masculine and what's feminine. Oh an my accent is dreadful... but getting better!

 

[mochibean]

I guess it would depend on how well your memory is for Japanese because really your sorta learning 4 languages at once, although the Japanese discourage romaji so I tried to keep away from that as much as I could, I'd say focus on your hirigana first as that is the main an then go onto katakana since that is used for non native words an since your name will be non native then its helpful to learn that an then finally kanji which is the most difficult

I've been learning Japanese for 3 years now, it's so difficult but I will say in my experience I don't find it like learning 4 languages at all. If you start with phonetics aka hiragana and katakana you cut out romaji immediately. Romaji misleads people so much that when I was first starting out I was mispronouncing so many words because I was reading them from an English perspective. Hiragana and katakana are actually really easy and can be learnt within a couple of weeks if you practice every day. Kanji makes reading so much easier in the long run, even though they are difficult to learn and many of them look similar. I think Japanese is a very intimidating language due to using multiple scripts, especially kanji but I struggle way more with grammar, especially with very complex topics and sentence structures.

I've been dissuaded from learning Chinese because I struggled so much with kanji initially. Especially when there's more than one of them to make up a word, has me totally lost at times. That being said though learning languages is so fun, it'd not be a challenge if it was too easy.

 

[Keikochan]

I am studying Japanese. I studied it in school and did it for my LC.
I really love the culture and want to be bilingual. I've traveled there before and it was fun trying to communicate. I am hoping to travel again at some point. I know the hiragana & katakana, a few kanji and basic words & sentences. There is so much to learn though and I need lots more practice.
Thankfully there are lots of good Japanese TV shows to watch and pick up phrases from.

 

[Laughingforlife]

The other night I was demonstrating how Duolingo works to a friend, as she wants to try some Spanish.
I decided to go with russian because that's what I know, and it was really quite hilarious stuff.
"where is the bicycle?"
"my rucksack is in the metro"
So that's useful, isn't it?
Are all the sentences as mad as that on beginners Duolingo for every language?

 

[aidil]

Another friend did Spanish a few years ago on it and it said "Are you machine?"
and also "I am a lion. I eat people"

I’d love to know if anyone has tried these phrases in real life situations!

 

[non.ironic.surfectant.]

Wow, thank you! I always struggle with articles and tenses, so I wasn't sure I wrote everything correctly.
I would also like to listen to other people's opinions on the second part of your post I'm super shy and socially anxious, so it always feels like a heroic deed to speak to people in my target language!

Echoing @StatusWoe 's comments, I never would have known your first language wasn't English. I'm of similar extraction to you, and also have social anxiety (so let's chat to each other, hahah!). I've been trying to learn my late father's native languages (Ukrainian and Russian, but forget about the 'surzhyks') via YouTube videos, but it's hard going. Interesting, but definitely hard going. All of it. And my attempts at Russian and Ukrainian accents make John Malkovich's attempts look flawless.

 

[Frau_guru]

Oh i love learning new languages.

English -self learning by reading books and watching movies with subtitles, and reading Tattle forum
German -12 months school and then reading books and watching movies with subtitles, plus I live now in Germany so it's logical
Russian -4 years in school and from this year I am reading my first book
(If someone knows a website where I can find Russian online books to read for free, would be great)

 

[Ilaariaa]

Does anyone have any advice on German? And om balancing work and studying languages?

I did a basic German exam last year and my teacher gave us a few resources for self-studying so we could keep it up once the course was finished.

Firstly the Easy German channel on Youtube which has a ton of videos where you can hear native speakers talk at different levels of difficulties and with German and English subtitles. There are a lot of channels on Youtube called Easy German, Easy French, Easy Italian etc., they all follow the same format and imo they're good quality;

The PONS online dictionary and Verbformen.com for conjugations and declensions, noun gender and meanings;

DW Learn German is a pretty good free online course that is structured in levels (from A1 to C2), you can take a placement test and each level has a lot of resources, exercises, short videos and vocabulary lists in different areas.

She also recommended Seedlang (which is sort of like Duolingo I think) but I have yet to try that so I can't really tell you more.

Hope this helps

 

[karpusha]

Your English is good. I wouldn't have known it was your second language.

Wow, thank you! I always struggle with articles and tenses, so I wasn't sure I wrote everything correctly.
I would also like to listen to other people's opinions on the second part of your post I'm super shy and socially anxious, so it always feels like a heroic deed to speak to people in my target language!

 

[279cupcakes]

I was excited to see this thread! I learnt French the entire time I was at school, so I have an okay grasp of grammar/vocab, I just struggle to hold a conversation. I would really like to get better at holding a conversation and understanding some books/shows.

Two of my good friends at uni are French so I should really have conversations with them, I just get nervous and flustered that they’ll think I’m terrible. My uni has a language hub where you can borrow magazines and book conversations with native speakers, so I’ll try that at some point

 

[Romy]

Your English is good. I wouldn't have known it was your second language.

I struggle with speaking skills, partly because I feel self-conscious, but also because my accent is never very good! Does anyone have advice about how to improve accent in a foreign language?

If you like songs in the language you are learning, sing them on the music with the subtitles on. And all that has already been said, like watching series or films with subtitles.
And then practising with real people (in their country preferably), obviously.
Most people feel self-conscious speaking in a "new" foreign language, especially if you're a bit shy.

 

[no-no]

Which language/s are you studying?

• What are your reasons for learning that particular language?
• How are you finding it so far? What do you like about the language? Any aspects you're struggling with?

I’m forever ‘learning’ Spanish. I hated it at GCSE but picked it up easily and got a good grade with little effort. I’ve wanted to learn loads of other languages over the years but settled on Spanish because it is one of the ‘easier’ and most common ones. The older I’ve got the more I love it and watching Spanish speaking tv shows makes me wish I’d dedicate more time because being bilingual is a life goal.

I had classes with a private tutor not long ago but it was awful because I didn’t have make time after work to revise. She was patient and suggested things like putting post-it notes around the house so I might do that. I know you can reach conversational fluency in < a year, but procrastination 🥲 I have kids books and Collins Grammar + Verbs + Vocabulary. I only find the apps helpful for pronunciation, but I do like the ones you speak in to and it translates. There are lots of Spanish teachers on Instagram, I tend to look at the content of those who teach kids atm I used to stick YouTube videos on, too. Hopefully this thread will give me una patada en el culo.

 

[Fishwife]

I used to love languages. I did French and German at university. But that was fifty years ago and it is more than a bit rusty. I love the Easy German you tube videos. They stop people in the street and ask them some questions so you hear a range of accents. The main presenter is German with a Polish husband. I have listened to some of the Easy Spanish as well. It seems to be mainly South American. The Easy language channel is not for complete beginners.
At the moment I am going through the Duolingo French. It is quite slow and seems to be very short on vocabulary. The main advantage is that it is free and is quite an entertaining way to pass ten minutes.

 

[aidil]

The other night I was demonstrating how Duolingo works to a friend, as she wants to try some Spanish.
I decided to go with russian because that's what I know, and it was really quite hilarious stuff.
"where is the bicycle?"
"my rucksack is in the metro"
So that's useful, isn't it?
Are all the sentences as mad as that on beginners Duolingo for every language?

I can 100% confirm this! I was using it over summer to start learning French and it kept asking me to say “are you a horse?” A totally normal conversation starter, non? I switched back to books after that but I still quite like the mini podcasts on DuoLingo if you’re subscribed. They’re quite handy for learning pronunciation!