You can have a chaperone for a procedure regardless of the gender of the clinician. You can also stop a procedure at any point if you are uncomfortable, request a different chaperone etc. The reason they have this is as much to protect you as it is the hospital in question. But most people in the medical profession just want to do their job, get paid and go home- regardless of orientation, gender etc.
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For me it’s not just about toilets.
I, of course, do believe trans people have rights. I recognise they are a marginalised group. I believe that gender is a social construct.
i will also say this; women have difficulty entering public spaces. From catcalling, to being groped, to being abused - all of this behaviour stems from the public sphere historically being the Male domain, something that is still present in the psyche of people today. We have had to fight and negotiate for our place in this public sphere - to be able to walk down the street in a skirt and not have it be commented upon. To be able to walk alone at night. By virtue of being born with a specific set of genitalia, women have been removed from certain privileges. We continue to fight for these.
There is also the fact that, statistically, the vast vast majority of women have been sexually harassed or assaulted in the UK. I’d go so far to say that every single woman in the U.K. has experienced a form of harassment or assault at some point, ranging from unwanted advances in a pub, to someone grabbing your bum, to full on attacks. It is prevalent. I include myself among this statistic, as does JK.
I also do not see trans women as being a threat or as being perpetrators of this abuse at all. Most I’ve known are gentle souls with more empathy than most. This isn’t about these people being abusive.
for me the issue is this; women have carefully negotiated their place in the public sphere. If we - as a society - deem any people who are biologically Male AND decide they identify as the gender female, should have access to these spaces, it removes arenas that have been ringfenced for biological/cis women and it opens our public spheres to anyone who claims they are a woman. It’s opens our protected rights and spaces to exploitation.
we have had the vote for just a hundred years, compared to thousands of years of oppression. Until relatively recently, a woman was property of her male relatives or husband with few legal rights. It is mind numbing, just how recent this state of affairs was.
it isn’t about if I mind a trans woman in a bathroom; it’s about minding if a trans woman can use female only gym areas, women’s only swimming sessions, designated women’s sporting events, women’s changing rooms, women’s domestic abuse facilities, women’s health facilities and so on.
in worst case scenarios, women who have been subject to abuse from men (I volunteered in a charity supporting these women) sometimes find they cannot feel safe or secure in the presence of men. To state that any biological Male should have access to these women’s spaces based on their gender identity alone, is an idea worthy of discussion at the very least. No one should have TERF yelled at them over it.
I think you've missed the point. My point is when you have a female doctor or nurse you are not asked.
When you have a male doctor or nurse you are asked if you want a chaperone.
So what can the hospital or doctor surgeries do? If they ask a patient if they would like another female in the room are they transphobic?
I apologise. Maybe I wasn’t clear. If you’re having a female clinician, generally they will need to talk you through the procedure to get your consent. At any point you can say that you would like an additional female chaperone. (Maybe this isn’t common knowledge). A surgery isn’t considered transphobic for asking you if you would like a female champerone, or even a different chaperone if you don’t like the one you currently have. It’s not that deep- they just want to put your mind at ease and make you comfortable. At the end of the day they want to treat you safely. they can’t do that if you’re distressed or upset by something.
I can absolutely guarantee that if you asked for a different or second female chaperone you would find yourself labelled transphobic and dragged through the streets.
Whatever the arguments for or against whatever it is JK Rowling has been tweeting about, you have to wonder why she feels the need to waste her time posting on Twitter. If had her wealth and luxurious lifestyle I"d be out there having fun in the real world, having lavish holidays, going out for expensive meals and generally living the high life.
You have to wonder why her life's seemingly so empty that she's wasting it arguing with dysfunctional idiots on social media.
You have to wonder why her life's seemingly so empty that she's wasting it arguing with dysfunctional idiots on social media.
Are you for real? I do understand the process as someone who Unfortunately has been in and out of breast clinic
Have a look at the trans activism and the vile , disgraceful garbage they spew if you dare say they are not women.
Seriously they literally would argue a wall is red when it's blue!
So are you telling me a trans nurse would be ok with the hospital or surgery asking the patient if a WOMEN/FEMALE can be present instead of them?
And for what it's worth why the hell should an additional rigmarole be placed on the patient?
I'd be quite open if a trans nurse was there and say no thank you but I suppose I'm a gobby outspoken woman. Many other women and girls in this woke society would feel uncomfortable with saying no.
Makes me so mad that women are put upon
If anything it makes her appear normal. It’s literally the same as what we all do on a daily basis, why shouldn’t she if that’s what she wants to do? I don’t personally agree with everything she’s ever tweeted and some things have outright made me cringe, but what she does with her time is up to her. Who are we to judge?
I'm terrified of speaking up publicly on this. There is nothing "empty" about speaking up for what you believe in. She could be doing all those other things at the same time too although thanks to covid I doubt anyone is going on lavish holidays
Besides, she hasn't posted anything since the open letter.
I think JK is an intelligent, eloquent woman. She has a vested interested in women’s rights not only by virtue of being born female, but also due to the fact she has had her rights abused by someone of the opposite gender/opposite sex.
She has every right to an opinion. Women have been discouraged for far too long to speak up. If anything it’s commendable - she has put her head above the parapet over something she feels strongly about. She doesn’t need to, she could retire from life and live out her days as a celebrated author. But she has chosen to open flood gates of abuse because she feels strongly about this topic.
this should be Commended, in my opinion. It can’t be easy - I’ve read some of the tweets.
There’s no need to take that tone. I’m just trying to answer your question. I’ve no idea who you are or what your experience is. Clearly it’s been very different to my own as a sexual assault survivor and the sister of someone who chaperones was part of their job.
ive no idea how an individual would feel about that but personal feelings and hospital procedure/ attitudes are very different. it’s actually commonplace for drs to bet told all the time they don’t want to be seen again by a patient. From the drs I know they couldn’t care less when that happens because they have plenty of other patients to see.
you see your ability for consent as rigamorale? I would have thought the importance of consent is something incredibly positive and a legal right but okay.
Tone? Eeeek is someone putting me in my place?
Sorry I've tired to understand your response but it's way too confusing for me. I'm not sure what you are trying to say?
Any how my point stands. What do hospitals, consultants, surgeries do when faced with a trans nurse or doctor or someone with patients so they are not accused of transphobia?
And I wonder if patients, especially the younger generation comfortable for calling a spade a spade and saying no to a trans woman examining them ?
It is women who are being put upon. A breast cancer patient should not have the additional worry of whether they'll be perceived as transphobic
The ramifications of allowing trans woman info our toilets is enormous. Where does it stop?
Exactly! Honestly I've been there and it's scary enough without having to worry you'll be judge for not wanting a biological man there too.
-A hospital will not be considered transphobic based on a patients assessment of the member of staff in question. The action is committed by the patient, not other hospital staff.Tone? Eeeek is someone putting me in my place?
Sorry I've tired to understand your response but it's way too confusing for me. I'm not sure what you are trying to say?
Any how my point stands. What do hospitals, consultants, surgeries do when faced with a trans nurse or doctor or someone with patients so they are not accused of transphobia?
And I wonder if patients, especially the younger generation comfortable for calling a spade a spade and saying no to a trans woman examining them ?
-being comfortable saying no is a societal issue and not born of the trans movement. That’s not going to change until white middle aged men are no longer in charge of the conversation and the majority of our infrastructure. I don’t think I’m telling you something you don’t already know as you’re already on the feminism movement but the very design of female oppression is to give us or make us feel like we gave no choice so we aren’t aware of our rights to say no.
Firstly there’s a pandemic so not many people are off on holidays or expensive meals.
Second of all this is an issue that affects women and she is one. It’s a big deal to her and many other women. It’s not that her life is ‘empty’ (implying that this isn’t an important issue) it’s that she feels this issue is important enough to her for her to speak up. And in fairness to her she hasn’t been arguing back, she said what she said and Twitter lost its collective mind in response.
I personally think she’s done a huge thing for women everywhere in speaking up the way she has. Just a shame so many are so unwilling to actually read her words.
I completely get what you’re saying, but I think the point is that if a female patient asks for a female chaperone, and that female chaperone happens to be a transgender woman because now many people believe “transwomen are women”, then what happens if the female patient is uncomfortable? If they say “no, a biological woman” than some people feel this is transphobic, so will they be told so? Will they be told “I am a biological woman” by the transwoman? Does the right of the female patient to a female chaperone override transgender ideology? It’s such a contentious area.
I’m sure this exact thing happened a couple of years ago - does it ring any bells to anyone? Maybe a smear test? The woman left without having the procedure done I think, but was labelled transphobic on social media etc. I can’t remember enough details to find a link! Agh!
It was three years ago, I remember reading it at the time so just did a quick Google search.
NHS sorry to woman after 'nurse with stubble' tried to take smear test
The NHS has apologised to a woman who was left “embarrassed and distressed” after a nurse with stubble and a […]
inews.co.uk
Thanks @Buzzbee ! Good to know the NHS apologised, but I do remember a lot of anger directed at the woman on social media. Very unfair.
Yes, I remember too. I think Facebook is where I first read about it. A lot of arguments were had in the comments about it and a lot of namecalling too, not unlike the kind that JKR has received recently.
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