J. K. Rowling

[Kitt]

Will not be putting any money in JK Rowling’s pocket from now on. She is transphobic.

The sad thing as well is that she’s using her platform of over 14 million followers to be dismissive of autistic and trans people. She could be sharing resources to support black lives matter. That’s a choice she’s made and it says a lot.

I don’t want be arguing on here with anyone but these threads are becoming an echo chamber for JKR supporters and not a healthy discussion at all. Giving trans women rights does not take away from women’s rights. There’s not a limited number of rights to go around.

Trans women aren’t welcome in the women’s bathroom? So you expect them to use the men’s? Do you think they will be welcome there either? Do you think they would feel safe? They would be vulnerable to violence themselves if a trans woman presenting as a woman went in the men’s. What it boils down to is that trans women just aren’t welcome. Full stop. That’s transphobia. Trans women are not a danger to women. They just want to use the loo.

Remember, black people weren’t allowed to use white people’s facilities due to segregation and people not feeling safe around black people because of the narrative that black people are dangerous and less than. That’s racism. Apply it to transgender people and it’s transphobia.

Yes you’re allowed your opinions and you can die on your hills saying it’s for women’s rights but in the end you’re still transphobic. JKR is using her platform to fuel hatred towards trans people and say it’s in the name of women’s rights. Trans and non binary people are hurt by it. They should be allowed to live their lives the way they feel comfortable and feel safe doing so.

 

[BasilRathbon]

Have you read her open letter? It can't really be distilled down to one paragraph. It runs far more complex than that

As her novels show, getting to the point instead of waffling on for pages and pages isn't JK Rowling's strong point.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

As her novels show, getting to the point instead of waffling on for pages and pages isn't JK Rowling's strong point.

Have never read a single book of hers! Not my thing. However, as a billionaire author I'm guessing many do like her writing

 

[Team JCM]

I really wish I was articulate enough to give a TLDR version! But sadly, I'm far from it!

thanks, I'm just trying to educate myself on the issues so I can form my view. Halfway through her letter then will read from the trans community.

 

[jewelkitty]

The only people who unfollowed me on fb other than the lecturer are straight guys from uni. Telling!

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

So there is an article on the daily mail website (yes I know!) Dedicated to Emma Watson getting thrashed for speaking out apparently against jk Rowling (I haven't seen her Twitter response and I don't necessarily agree with Emma's take from what is allegedly is reported in the article). However
the Dailymail is enjoying bringing Emma down (I'm sure because she's a bright woman who doesn't keep quiet)
The wording of the headline and article is of course to lambaste Emma.
Now when it came to the Dailymail reporting on Radcliffe and Redmayne there was not such scrutiny or criticism in, the Dailymail reported it to provoke but with the Emma article they've gone to town and whipped up an argument about feminism....cue the excuse to be misogynistic and now hate both JK and Emma.....

Christ. They couldn’t be any more blatant if they tried. I disagree with Emma, but the way they have written about her compared to Daniel Radcliffe and Eddie Redmayne is so obviously misogynistic and I just can’t support that tit no matter what her views are. Misogyny needs to die a death already.

 

[emmer_moans]

Trouble with the online world is Twitter is an echo chamber for activists and does not necessarily reflect the wider public, everything seems to be an extreme pile-on. One example is before the last government election, if you believed Twitter it was likely to be a Labour landslide but evidently the reality was not the same and I remember the disappointment and disbelief on Twitter the next day. Often opinions that are strong on social media are just far more concentrated than if you extrapolate it to the general population.

I beleive that anyone who wants to transition, can, and should, but I do object to womens' safe spaces being compromised by the few people who happen to have male sex organs and in some cases aggressively insist on doing so. Misogyny is real and is very hateful. I think going forward public buildings need to have more single stall unisex toilets facilities alongside male only or female only facilities so that every one can have a choice they deem safe. I do not hate anyone for what gender they perceive themselves, but I want a womens only toilet. But if I said this on Twitter there would be an onslaught. Women should be able to keep the spaces such as single sex changing facilities. It seems on twitter you can't have mutually reasonable and open discussions. If you don't pander to the activist party line then apparently you are evil in their eyes for saying something like "I feel safer in single sex toilet".

Personally, I will always use peoples' preferred pronouns, I will respect peoples' right to dress and present however they wish. I would petition for adjacently available single stall unisex toilet facilities for the comfort and safety of all. But I would also expect people fo undersrand that for many women, single sex couselling groups, changing rooms, hospital wards etc should not be given up. From the dawn of time women have typically been physically smaller in build and disenfranchised compared to males. Many women can feel inherently unsafe in public situations. I hate that a lot of activists disregard any legitimate fears women might have, without actually listening and empathising.

I am not homophobic and I empathise that life must very hard for non binary and trans people too. It is a very sensitive topic and I wish everyone would be calmer and dicsuss kindly. Perhaps one day soon we can come to an acceptible way of providing safe spaces for everyone, not at anyones' expense.

TLDR; it is in my view possible to agree with JK Rowling whilst being emapthetic to all, including trans people. Women should not lose their identity in the process, or safe spaces, but society must move forward and consider how to provide for everyone. Compassion for all sides, and not misogyny, is needed.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

@Kitt Segregated toilets were still male and female. Not the same thing at all

 

[Inforapenny]

Please stop whoever is comparing black people not allowed to use white toilets to women protecting their spaces from men
This is the type of ridiculousness that is used to silence women having a voice.

On the question about generation. I am a 36 year old woman who has older friends, friends of my age and then one friendship group where I'm the oldest and the you get is 25. I am open about my views with some of my friends who happen to be around my age or older (40s,50s). Perhaps we older women are less naïve and haven't grown up around twitter.

I studied philosophy and theology at university and had my eyes open when I found the works of Mary Daly because of Daly & Dworkin and other wonderful, forward thinking women this set me on a path to question the patriarchy and how bleeping damaging it is.
I have taught feminism in the context of religion and then society for 8 years.

All I can say is I'm disgusted with this vile misogyny and disappointed that women, (who other women are fighting for) are throwing us to the wolves to appease the trans movement and those sinster men who use their fetish to destroy and disable women.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Christ. They couldn’t be any more blatant if they tried. I disagree with Emma, but the way they have written about her compared to Daniel Radcliffe and Eddie Redmayne is so obviously misogynistic and I just can’t support that tit no matter what her views are. Misogyny needs to die a death already.

It's the Daily Fail. Absolute rum

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

Trouble with the online world is Twitter is an echo chamber for activists and does not necessarily reflect the wider public, everything seems to be an extreme pile-on. One example is before the last government election, if you believed Twitter it was likely to be a Labour landslide but evidently the reality was not the same and I remember the disappointment and disbelief on Twitter the next day. Often opinions that are strong on social media are just far more concentrated than if you extrapolate it to the general population.

I beleive that anyone who wants to transition, can, and should, but I do object to womens' safe spaces being compromised by the few people who happen to have male sex organs and in some cases aggressively insist on doing so. Misogyny is real and is very hateful. I think going forward public buildings need to have more single stall unisex toilets facilities alongside male only or female only facilities so that every one can have a choice they deem safe. I do not hate anyone for what gender they perceive themselves, but I want a womens only toilet. But if I said this on Twitter there would be an onslaught. Women should be able to keep the spaces such as single sex changing facilities. It seems on twitter you can't have mutually reasonable and open discussions. If you don't pander to the activist party line then apparently you are evil in their eyes for saying something like "I feel safer in single sex toilet".

Personally, I will always use peoples' preferred pronouns, I will respect peoples' right to dress and present however they wish. I would petition for adjacently available single stall unisex toilet facilities for the comfort and safety of all. But I would also expect people fo undersrand that for many women, single sex couselling groups, changing rooms, hospital wards etc should not be given up. From the dawn of time women have typically been physically smaller in build and disenfranchised compared to males. Many women can feel inherently unsafe in public situations. I hate that a lot of activists disregard any legitimate fears women might have, without actually listening and empathising.

I am not homophobic and I empathise that life must very hard for non binary and trans people too. It is a very sensitive topic and I wish everyone would be calmer and dicsuss kindly. Perhaps one day soon we can come to an acceptible way of providing safe spaces for everyone, not at anyones' expense.

TLDR; it is in my view possible to agree with JK Rowling whilst being emapthetic to all, including trans people. Women should not lose their identity in the process, or safe spaces, but society must move forward and consider how to provide for everyone. Compassion for all sides, and not misogyny, is needed.

THIS. Well said.


As for this thread becoming an echo chamber, it’s not. It just so happens a lot of us agree. People who disagree can post and share their views too and a discussion can happen. That’s what most of us want I think, to be able to actually discuss this without being shouted down as terfs or phobic, because there are valid concerns regarding women only spaces and use of language. I am wondering what exactly, out of all her tweets and now her letter JK Rowling has said that is transphobic. Was it that only women (adult humans of the female sex) can have periods? Isn’t that just a stone cold biological fact? She never once denied the existence of trans people or said they’re not deserving of rights and support.

 

[Zenchick101]

Trouble with the online world is Twitter is an echo chamber for activists and does not necessarily reflect the wider public, everything seems to be an extreme pile-on. One example is before the last government election, if you believed Twitter it was likely to be a Labour landslide but evidently the reality was not the same and I remember the disappointment and disbelief on Twitter the next day. Often opinions that are strong on social media are just far more concentrated than if you extrapolate it to the general population.

I beleive that anyone who wants to transition, can, and should, but I do object to womens' safe spaces being compromised by the few people who happen to have male sex organs and in some cases aggressively insist on doing so. Misogyny is real and is very hateful. I think going forward public buildings need to have more single stall unisex toilets facilities alongside male only or female only facilities so that every one can have a choice they deem safe. I do not hate anyone for what gender they perceive themselves, but I want a womens only toilet. But if I said this on Twitter there would be an onslaught. Women should be able to keep the spaces such as single sex changing facilities. It seems on twitter you can't have mutually reasonable and open discussions. If you don't pander to the activist party line then apparently you are evil in their eyes for saying something like "I feel safer in single sex toilet".

Personally, I will always use peoples' preferred pronouns, I will respect peoples' right to dress and present however they wish. I would petition for adjacently available single stall unisex toilet facilities for the comfort and safety of all. But I would also expect people fo undersrand that for many women, single sex couselling groups, changing rooms, hospital wards etc should not be given up. From the dawn of time women have typically been physically smaller in build and disenfranchised compared to males. Many women can feel inherently unsafe in public situations. I hate that a lot of activists disregard any legitimate fears women might have, without actually listening and empathising.

I am not homophobic and I empathise that life must very hard for non binary and trans people too. It is a very sensitive topic and I wish everyone would be calmer and dicsuss kindly. Perhaps one day soon we can come to an acceptible way of providing safe spaces for everyone, not at anyones' expense.

TLDR; it is in my view possible to agree with JK Rowling whilst being emapthetic to all, including trans people. Women should not lose their identity in the process, or safe spaces, but society must move forward and consider how to provide for everyone. Compassion for all sides, and not misogyny, is needed.

This is really close to how I think I feel about it all, what's funny is that in my country that's a really progressive way to view the whole thing - most people would laugh. Maybe it's because I grew up before it was trendy to be "woke" but changing in front of other women is a bit intimidating already and changing in front of someone with a male body would make me really uncomfortable.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

THIS. Well said.


As for this thread becoming an echo chamber, it’s not. It just so happens a lot of us agree. People who disagree can post and share their views too and a discussion can happen. That’s what most of us want I think, to be able to actually discuss this without being shouted down as terfs or phobic, because there are valid concerns regarding women only spaces and use of language. I am wondering what exactly, out of all her tweets and now her letter JK Rowling has said that is transphobic. Was it that only women (adult humans of the female sex) can have periods? Isn’t that just a stone cold biological fact? She never once denied the existence of trans people or said they’re not deserving of rights and support.

This is the main issue I have. The original tweet that kicked this all off said nothing about the trans community, it was about women. And TRAs made it all about them

 

[Sunflower91]

I think it was written by a different person and JK was just part of the story idea. I don’t like all the stuff she added afterwards like Dumbledore being gay. If you want a gay character, write a gay character. Don’t just add it as an afterthought later, it felt very disingenuous.

I think so too. It just didn’t even feel like the same characters and it was pretty much one of those fan fictions where the character use a time turner- the end.I feel like once the series was finished it was a case of playing the fan field. Give them a story around popular fanfic, dumbledore is gay, public post about regretting killing off a character, primark socks. It makes me wonder about how much impact the hype had on the ending of the books- was what JK envisioned what actually happened.

 

[ShowMeYourFeline]

@jewelkitty like you I was very much 100% pro choice and pro equal marriage but now I feel like, in most peoples eyes, I am on the "wrong" side of the fence and it scares me as I know if I say anything to certain people I'll be blocked, unfriended, deemed a bigot.

I couldn't sleep for ages last night and I even started to doubt myself. That's how damaging it is, people are afraid to speak up

I just want to ask, now that you find yourself on the “wrong” side of leftists for the first time, do you now realise how unethical and damaging these leftist tactics are?

I mean of branding yourselves right and the “other side” wrong, to the point of the other side being irredeemable as human beings? And for reducing highly complex issues such as abortion and gay marriage to just “we’re right and good, you’re wrong and evil”? That anyone who disagrees with you must have evil and sinister motives such as homophobia or misogyny, rather than genuine concerns.

Did you ever consider what people who are not 100% pro choice, or not 100% in favour of gay marriage, might think or feel? Did you think they deserve any treatment they get, and has your opinion changed?

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I just want to ask, now that you find yourself on the “wrong” side of leftists for the first time, do you now realise how unethical and damaging these leftist tactics are?

I mean of branding yourselves right and the “other side” wrong, to the point of the other side being irredeemable as human beings? And for reducing highly complex issues such as abortion and gay marriage to just “we’re right and good, you’re wrong and evil”? That anyone who disagrees with you must have evil and sinister motives such as homophobia or misogyny, rather than genuine concerns.

Did you ever consider what people who are not 100% pro choice, or not 100% in favour of gay marriage, might think or feel? Did you think they deserve any treatment they get, and has your opinion changed?

A very good question and thanks for asking it. It has certainly given me pause for thought and made me realise that I too was probably one of those people that was divisive and instantly branded someone (in my head) a certain way if they didn't vote the way I thought they should. It has been an eye opener to be honest, and has made me more than a little ashamed. I'm still happy about the outcomes of both but yes I should not have dismissed people so easily

 

[ShowMeYourFeline]

Will not be putting any money in JK Rowling’s pocket from now on. She is transphobic.

The sad thing as well is that she’s using her platform of over 14 million followers to be dismissive of autistic and trans people. She could be sharing resources to support black lives matter. That’s a choice she’s made and it says a lot.

I don’t want be arguing on here with anyone but these threads are becoming an echo chamber for JKR supporters and not a healthy discussion at all. Giving trans women rights does not take away from women’s rights. There’s not a limited number of rights to go around.

Trans women aren’t welcome in the women’s bathroom? So you expect them to use the men’s? Do you think they will be welcome there either? Do you think they would feel safe? They would be vulnerable to violence themselves if a trans woman presenting as a woman went in the men’s. What it boils down to is that trans women just aren’t welcome. Full stop. That’s transphobia. Trans women are not a danger to women. They just want to use the loo.

Remember, black people weren’t allowed to use white people’s facilities due to segregation and people not feeling safe around black people because of the narrative that black people are dangerous and less than. That’s racism. Apply it to transgender people and it’s transphobia.

Yes you’re allowed your opinions and you can die on your hills saying it’s for women’s rights but in the end you’re still transphobic. JKR is using her platform to fuel hatred towards trans people and say it’s in the name of women’s rights. Trans and non binary people are hurt by it. They should be allowed to live their lives the way they feel comfortable and feel safe doing so.

Trans women’s rights are directly taking away women’s rights.

The entire reason that women’s spaces are separate from men’s is that men are a risk to women. This risk is due to male-bodied strength relative to females, and male pattern criminality.

Since transwomen retain both male-bodied strength and the same tendency to commit male-pattern criminality, admitting transwomen into women’s safe spaces is the same risk as admitting men into these spaces. It is therefore the same as taking away women’s right to safe spaces.

This is proven by the fact that transwomen make up 0.5% of women’s prison oppositions but commit 11% of rapes. This number is conservative because transwomen with gender recognition certificates are counted as female.

As for transwomen being unwelcome in male toilets due to the threat of male violence, firstly there is no evidence that this is the case, unlike the countless crimes committed by transwomen in women’s toilets. Drag queens have been using men’s toilets for decades with few issues.

Men should be educated to not attack violent males in different clothing. Women's and children’s safety should not be sacrificed for issues that are not our fault.

Black women have spoken up about historic US toilet segregation being compared trans women’s invasive demands. You are an ignorant racist. Firstly it is racist because you are comparing black women to biological males, and because you are misrepresenting their historic struggles to use them as props in arguments.

Secondly it’s not a valid comparison; blacks were segregated in many areas of life including even water fountains and bus seats, not just private safe spaces. The toilets were extensions of general segregation, not due to particular concerns about black womens’ anatomy, strength, or sex crime risk, as you imply with these irrelevant comparisons.

Please state exactly what JK Rowling has said that “fuels hatred”.

My last thought is that it’s ironic that you are accusing this thread of being an “echo chamber”, when you are so enraged by JK Rowling gentle disagreeing with an echo chamber, that you want to boycott her.

A very good question and thanks for asking it. It has certainly given me pause for thought and made me realise that I too was probably one of those people that was divisive and instantly branded someone (in my head) a certain way if they didn't vote the way I thought they should. It has been an eye opener to be honest, and has made me more than a little ashamed. I'm still happy about the outcomes of both but yes I should not have dismissed people so easily

Thank you for your honest and thoughtful response

Trouble with the online world is Twitter is an echo chamber for activists and does not necessarily reflect the wider public, everything seems to be an extreme pile-on. One example is before the last government election, if you believed Twitter it was likely to be a Labour landslide but evidently the reality was not the same and I remember the disappointment and disbelief on Twitter the next day. Often opinions that are strong on social media are just far more concentrated than if you extrapolate it to the general population.

SJWs have successfully ostracised and driven off everyone they disagree with on social media, but have less success in real life. Their online success at ostracism has made them power-hungry and have an unrealistic view of the real world.

 

[Inforapenny]

Why is it ALWAYS women having to mop up and deal with a trans issue?
Why are trans women and their advocates not imploring men to do more?
Why don't they fight for MEN to create trans toilets and showers?
Because it's not about brow beating men is it? It's about stamping on the most silenced , vulnerable group in society because it's easy and no one will support us.
Trans don't pick a fight with men and the male establishment.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I'm shocked that TRAs are piggy backing off the BLM movement

 

[Zenchick101]

Why is it ALWAYS women having to mop up and deal with a trans issue?
Why are trans women and their advocates not imploring men to do more?
Why don't they fight for MEN to create trans toilets and showers?
Because it's not about brow beating men is it? It's about stamping on the most silenced , vulnerable group in society because it's easy and no one will support us.
Trans don't pick a fight with men and the male establishment.

whatever you believe in that's a fair point - You never hear this being discussed. At least I've never seen anything on it

whatever you believe in that's a fair point - You never hear this being discussed. At least I've never seen anything on it

wonder what J.K would say about it