J. K. Rowling

[jewelkitty]

For Alfies_Boy, since you clearly think intersex people are bleeping hilarious and a laughing matter -
I don't want to speak for anyone else so just gonna share this from the other thread:

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

I bleeping hate this dolt. She changed her name to Veronica Ivy so when you google her no bad articles come up. She is dangerous. Look at how she is built, no wonder she beats biological women in sports, it is vile. She is built like a MAN because she was born a man.

And unfortunately that’s just the tip of the iceberg:
Hannah Mouncy (Australian football and handball)
Laurel Hubbard (Weightlifting)
Fallon Fox (MMA)
Andraya Yearwood & Terri Miller (high school track & field)

Just to name a few more. These are all transwomen who have or are competing in women’s sports and are winning, breaking records, taking scholarship spots and injuring other competitors on a disproportionate scale. Most if not all of them were mediocre athletes when competing as men in the men’s category.

To allow someone with all the natural physical advantages that biological males are born with, things that don’t go away with hormones and surgery like bone density, bone structure and muscle mass compete in women’s sports is grossly unfair to the women and girls who have dedicated their lives to their sport. Sports haven’t always been so easily accessible for women and girls, we had to fight for our leagues and our teams and many women around the world are still fighting. Women’s sport should be protected.

 

[Basicbasic]

Making Toilets/refuges etc into a safe space for 'CIS' & transgender people I feel is quite important.
And is something that i'm sure a solution can be found.

The solution would be trans toilets. Women's spaces would be safeguarded, trans women would not have to share with men and everyone could piss in peace. But trans women on the whole don't want their own toilets. They want OURS.

 

[Lanavalentine]

I'm not arguing, or saying it has any impact on statistics or rates, or that cases don't differ from person to person, but if I had shot down my son last year and told him he couldn't live as he felt, I'm almost certain I wouldn't have my son today, even as a daughter. He's told me himself in so many words. I didn't realise just how depressed he was.

So while I can't comment on the legitimacy of any stats, I can completely understand where the assumption originates from.

I am sorry for you and your son to have gone throught that. However, anecdotal evidence doesn’t help the cause, and there are NICE guidelines created to help stop sucide ideation amongst vulnerable groups that specifically state that suicide must not be portrayed as inevitable, and yet, many Trans charities and trans activists are ignoring those guidelines by repeatedly telling trans children and their parents that those who do not receive 100% affirmation in their gender identity are at risk of suicide. Not only is this statistically incorrect, it is incredibly dangerous.

By pepertuating the idea that a transgender person will not be able to avoid killing themselves if they do not access the transition they require, then it risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It’s a harmful argument to the trans community, and yet supposed allies insist on repeating it.

 

[Zenchick101]

The solution would be trans toilets. Women's spaces would be safeguarded, trans women would not have to share with men and everyone could piss in peace. But trans women on the whole don't want their own toilets. They want OURS.

I think I agree with that they forsure wouldn't be safe with men and the women that wouldn't be comfortable sharing a bathroom with them wouldn't have to. Also it would solve the issue of FtM bathrooms too.

 

[kat.becs]

I am sorry for you and your son to have gone throught that. However, anectdotal evidence doesn’t help the cause, and there are NICE guidelines created to help stop sucide ideation amongst vulnerable groups that specifically state that suicide must not be portrayed as inevitable, and yet, many Trans charities and trans activists are ignoring those guidelines by repeatedly telling trans children and their parents that those who do not receive 100% affirmation in their gender identity are at risk of suicide. Not only is this statistically incorrect, it is incredibly dangerous.

By pepertuating the idea that a transgender person will not be able to avoid killing themself if they do not access the transition they require, then it risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It’s a harmful argument to the trans community, and yet supposed allies insist on repeating it.

Don't get me wrong I don't necessarily disagree, was just stating that I just do understand where the assumption originates. The depression that comes with gender dysphoria is very, very strong and overwhelming.

 

[Inforapenny]

I'm not arguing, or saying it has any impact on statistics or rates, or that cases don't differ from person to person, but if I had shot down my son last year and told him he couldn't live as he felt, I'm almost certain I wouldn't have my son today, even as a daughter. He's told me himself in so many words. I didn't realise just how depressed he was.

So while I can't comment on the legitimacy of any stats, I can completely understand where the assumption originates from.

Many trans use the argument of suicide and I find this incredibly manipulative.
I am sorry of someone who struggles with mental health and yes they should be helped but this doesn't automatically mean women must give up their spaces, allow men in their showers and be erased and treated like we're bigots for protecting our rights and because we're not putting trans first.

And what about the mental health of our girls who are having to put up with this???

 

[Barb]

It is indeed diabolical, and that doesn’t make its existence any less real. If people knew about autogynephilia trans rights would stop in an instant.

And all you can say against this fact is that it’s horrible and anyone who mentions the bleeding obvious is a bad person. You’ve not been able to rationally counter anything I said.



That’s a public relations lie, he was raised male. That’s why his homophobic community is so accepting of his “lesbian” relationship.

Of course he doesn’t want to take hormone blockers, they will affect his health and his athletic advantage.

Not a trans issue. Hormones in sport issue.
Again, I didn't come to argue, just share support / provide balance but others are doing a much better job. It gives me hope.

 

[Inforapenny]

Not a trans issue. Hormones in sport issue.
Again, I didn't come to argue, just share support / provide balance but others are doing a much better job. It gives me hope.

Ffs so you know it's barking mad so now distancing yourself. It is a trans issue accept that it is because you're fighting their cause. Don't cherry pick now

 

[kat.becs]

Many trans use the argument of suicide and I find this incredibly manipulative.
I am sorry of someone who struggles with mental health and yes they should be helped but this doesn't automatically mean women must give up their spaces, allow men in their showers and be erased and treated like we're bigots for protecting our rights and because we're not putting trans first.

And what about the mental health of our girls who are having to put up with this???

I never said that we should. I previously stated that I'm in favour of a unisex alternative for trans people, alongside the usual male/female bathrooms. I'd rather have that for my son than him have to debate which bathroom to use anyway. That's far more distressing for him than it is for him just to use a seperate bathroom.

 

[pixxyy]

The solution would be trans toilets. Women's spaces would be safeguarded, trans women would not have to share with men and everyone could piss in peace. But trans women on the whole don't want their own toilets. They want OURS.

It's not really about wanting ours though, it's more they want to use Women's Toilets as there Women too.
And I do get why they might not want a 'Trans' toilet option as they & rightly so want to be treated equal & for us to include them.

That's why earlier I posted maybe make toilets with the tap area being more public, so people dont feel like there hidden away where something could happen?

 

[kat.becs]

It's not really about wanting ours though, it's more they want to use Women's Toilets as there Women too.
And I do get why they might not want a 'Trans' toilet option as they & rightly so want to be treated equal & for us to include them.

That's why earlier I posted maybe make toilets with the tap area being more public, so people dont feel like there hidden away where something could happen?

I think labelling it as 'trans bathroom' could be problematic as I think a unisex bathroom could be beneficial for many people, not just trans people, but I see nothing wrong with a unisex bathroom. Not much different than a disabled bathroom really. My son uses them a lot.

My son would love to be able to use the mens bathroom, naturally, but he'll happy to use a unisex bathroom if that option is more commonly provided.

 

[Alfies_Boy]

They’re basic saying your depressed and suicidal child is a manipulator who needs affirming or they’ll claim suicide. All the data supports their theory and debunks yours. Sorry but no.

 

[bubbletea123]

I think labelling it as 'trans bathroom' could be problematic as I think a unisex bathroom could be beneficial for many people, not just trans people, but I see nothing wrong with a unisex bathroom. Not much different than a disabled bathroom really. My son uses them a lot.

As a woman I hate using unisex bathrooms. Men are disgusting and pee everywhere. That is why I don't like Starbucks bathrooms as often they are unisex. I would not be comfortable sharing a bathroom with men.

 

[ShowMeYourFeline]

Not a trans issue. Hormones in sport issue.
Again, I didn't come to argue, just share support / provide balance but others are doing a much better job. It gives me hope.

Hormones are far from the only thing that make male bodied people physically superior. They have bigger hearts, lungs, more red blood cells, thicker skulls, different pelvises, elbow joints etc.

But on that note, the upper limit for testosterone in women’s sport is set extremely high, far higher than real women will ever have.

Why do you have hope? The trans rights activists in this thread are doing a terrible job at arguing. They come across as emotional and hysterical, and are failing to support their arguments.

Also, public support of LBGT issues is dropping. The backlash is growing everyday. I have sympathy for the LBGs, and for the original Ts who were peacefully living their lives.

As a woman I hate using unisex bathrooms. Men are disgusting and pee everywhere. That is why I don't like Starbucks bathrooms as often they are unisex. I would not be comfortable sharing a bathroom with men.

I never use unisex bathrooms. Not only that but there’s the risk of hidden spy cameras.

 

[Lanavalentine]

Hormones are far from the only thing that make male bodied people physically superior. They have bigger hearts, lungs, more red blood cells, thicker skulls, different pelvises, elbow joints etc.

But on that note, the upper limit for testosterone in women’s sport is set extremely high, far higher than real women will ever have.

Why do you have hope? The trans rights activists in this thread are doing a terrible job at arguing. They come across as emotional and hysterical, and are failing to support their arguments.

Also, public support of LBGT issues is dropping. The backlash is growing everyday. I have sympathy for the LBGs, and for the original Ts who were peacefully living their lives.

... and resort to troll-like tactics because they can’t actually answer anything we ask.

 

[kat.becs]

As a woman I hate using unisex bathrooms. Men are disgusting and pee everywhere. That is why I don't like Starbucks bathrooms as often they are unisex. I would not be comfortable sharing a bathroom with men.

Fair enough, that's your choice, can't say I would want to either - but I'm not saying there should ONLY be a unisex bathroom. But an additional bathroom. My son uses the disabled bathroom often to overcome the bathroom debate but then he gets dirty looks when he comes out, because he's clearly not disabled. But then he can get the same looks when he uses the female bathroom and the mens bathroom. A seperate bathroom would solve the issue.

It's not the most ideal situation as I'm sure many trans people who have no bad intentions would rather use the bathroom of the gender they identify as, but a unisex bathroom isn't oppressive either.

 

[jewelkitty]

I never use unisex bathrooms. Not only that but there’s the risk of hidden spy cameras.

Agreed. A while ago at my work, the women's toilet broke so we had to just use the unisex toilet (there's a men's, a women's and a unisex toilet).
When the women's toilet finally got fixed the men wouldn't stop using it (as they became used to just having a men's and a unisex toilet) and all us women had to rally up, send out multiple stern emails saying that the toilet was for WOMEN ONLY. The men were leaving it in a disgusting state, not only pissing all over the seat and floor, but leaving blood, tit and vomit on the toilet too (don't ask, I have no idea).

I'm grateful that my workplace isn't "ultra-woke" and didn't take offence to this (especially because women in my workplace are a very small minority as it is).

 

[bubbletea123]

Fair enough, that's your choice, can't say I would want to either - but I'm not saying there should ONLY be a unisex bathroom. But an additional bathroom. My son uses the disabled bathroom often to overcome the bathroom debate but then he gets dirty looks when he comes out, because he's clearly not disabled. But then he can get the same looks when he uses the female bathroom and the mens bathroom. A seperate bathroom would solve the issue.

It's not the most ideal situation as I'm sure many trans people who have no bad intentions would rather use the bathroom of the gender they identify as, but a unisex bathroom isn't oppressive either.

Here one of our malls has a choice of female, male, and unisex bathrooms so it can work.

 

[pixxyy]

I think labelling it as 'trans bathroom' could be problematic as I think a unisex bathroom could be beneficial for many people, not just trans people, but I see nothing wrong with a unisex bathroom. Not much different than a disabled bathroom really. My son uses them a lot.

My son would love to be able to use the mens bathroom, naturally, but he'll happy to use a unisex bathroom if that option is more commonly provided.

Hormones are far from the only thing that make male bodied people physically superior. They have bigger hearts, lungs, more red blood cells, thicker skulls, different pelvises, elbow joints etc.

But on that note, the upper limit for testosterone in women’s sport is set extremely high, far higher than real women will ever have.

Why do you have hope? The trans rights activists in this thread are doing a terrible job at arguing. They come across as emotional and hysterical, and are failing to support their arguments.

Also, public support of LBGT issues is dropping. The backlash is growing everyday. I have sympathy for the LBGs, and for the original Ts who were peacefully living their lives.



I never use unisex bathrooms. Not only that but there’s the risk of hidden spy cameras.

tbf hidden spy cameras could just as easily be in Women's or Men's toilets

Also i'm sure most of us have shared a public toilet with a member of the trans community without even realising it