Hilaria Baldwin / Hillary Hayward-Thomas and Alec Baldwin

[Cacacoisfarraige]

I will admit I was rather drunk last night, so that post not making a massive amount of sense is perhaps not surprising.

What I meant was that I think the person who pulls the trigger is just as responsible as anyone else, even if they're not legally responsible, but that they *should* be legally responsible, and that's a failure of local laws if not.

I can’t understand your rationale.

it’s like accusing the waiter of giving you food poisoning for serving undercooked meat.

There will be investigations - a legal one and an insurance one.
They will establish hirings, qualifications whether standards were met etc.
The insurance people will want to know if correct procedures were followed (if not they’re not going to foot the bill)
The criminal one will establish any negligence/foul play etc

 

[L3moning]

it’s like accusing the waiter of giving you food poisoning for serving undercooked meat.

It's not comparable to that. A waiter doesn't have a responsibility to check that food is cooked.

Anyone firing a gun, prop or not, being told its not loaded or not, has a responsibility to check that its not loaded. That might well not be a legal responsibility (although it might in some places), but it is a responsibility. In the UK this would 100% meet the requirements to charge with manslaughter. I have no idea about New Mexico though.

 

[Cacacoisfarraige]

It's not comparable to that. A waiter doesn't have a responsibility to check that food is cooked.

Anyone firing a gun, prop or not, being told its not loaded or not, has a responsibility to check that its not loaded. That might well not be a legal responsibility (although it might in some places), but it is a responsibility. In the UK this would 100% meet the requirements to charge with manslaughter. I have no idea about New Mexico though.

But it was loaded with blanks. Was AB supposed to remove the blanks and study them ? Conduct his own studies on the blanks ?

just like you don’t ask a waiter to cut your steak to ensure it’s cooked to your liking

 

[Puffin]

But it was loaded with blanks. Was AB supposed to remove the blanks and study them ? Conduct his own studies on the blanks ?

just like you don’t ask a waiter to cut your steak to ensure it’s cooked to your liking

Exactly. All prop guns are loaded so checking whether it's loaded or not is irrelevant as it's needs to be loaded . It's the type of ammunition that was used that is the issue ....was is 'live' or blanks

Genuine question for posters here but does the fact that the actor in question is Alec Baldwin colour your view on the incident?

We all know he is not very well liked, has anger issues and has a tendency to be a bully so because of all of this is he being held more accountable than say a more likeable actor ?

My personal opinion on it is whatever his level of personal responsibility is or isn't in this ,someone lost their life doing their job and someone else is critical. Whatever Alec's role or level or responsibility for that is he is still going to have to live with that on his conscience for the rest of his life.

 

[L3moning]

Genuine question for posters here but does the fact that the actor in question is Alec Baldwin colour your view on the incident?

No. I'd be saying the exact same thing whoever it was.

 

[Cacacoisfarraige]

@L3moning

So Sylvester was to study every bullet he fired in a Rambo movie ?

@L3moning
Is Vin Diesel supposed to check the brakes on every car he drives in a fast and furious movie . He could crash and hurt someone too.

so he’ll be busy checking bullets and brakes.

 

[L3moning]

@L3moning

So Sylvester was to study every bullet he fired in a Rambo movie ?

@L3moning
Is Vin Diesel supposed to check the brakes on every car he drives in a fast and furious movie . He could crash and hurt someone too.

so he’ll be busy checking bullets and brakes.

Cars aren't comparable to guns, not directly.

And you should follow gun safety rules even if you're using a gun you "know" has blanks in it (i/e always assume its loaded with live ammunition and never point it at someone (there are plenty of camera tricks that can make it look like you are point it at someone)).

 

[Cacacoisfarraige]

Cars aren't comparable to guns, not directly.

And you should follow gun safety rules even if you're using a gun you "know" has blanks in it (i/e always assume its loaded with live ammunition and never point it at someone (there are plenty of camera tricks that can make it look like you are point it at someone)).

why hire people to handle the weapons if the actors is supposed to do the gun checks themself. Was AB not following the directors instruction where to fire ? This will all come out in the investigation

I’ve never handled a gun. Does that mean I can’t be an actor ?

an actors job is to act. I’m sure many have only held a gun as a prop. Theyre not all Charlton Heston. I’ve never held a gun, but if they need a new James Bond - are you saying I must rule myself out as I couldn’t tell the difference between a blank and a bullet
Obviously female and nearly 50 might also count against me

 

[Dawn Dayn]

He was handed the gun from a tray, told it was a cold gun, that means it isn't loaded with anything. Safety protocol means the armorer should have checked, the person handing Alec the gun should've checked, and Alec should've checked yet again. This was a budget shoot, people had walked off the day before, there had been previous gun firing when they shouldn't have. Alec is a producer, this will be where his liability is, the next few years for him will be fighting lawsuits and regretting being in this position which has come about because he married a crazy woman and had six kids with her.
Terrible for her family, knowing this shouldn't have happened. Awful for the Baldwin kids.

 

[L3moning]

why hire people to handle the weapons if the actors is supposed to do the gun checks themself.

The point is that it doesn't matter if you're an actor. If you are handling a gun you have to assume, even if you have been told it's not loaded or loaded with blanks, as if it's loaded with live ammunition, that is literally the first rule of gun safety.

I’ve never held a gun, but if they need a new James Bond - are you saying I must rule myself out as I couldn’t tell the difference between a blank and a bullet
Obviously female and nearly 50 might also count against me

If you are going to be handling guns for a job then you should have training on things like that and know the safety rules.

The idea that an actor has no responsibility for firing a gun they are given safely is madness, to be quite honest.

 

[Ndrangheta]

Genuine question for posters here but does the fact that the actor in question is Alec Baldwin colour your view on the incident?

Not sure about the 'likable' or 'unlikable' actor part of you question. I'm neutral. But he does have a past history of irrational behaviour. And chaos does seem to follow him around. That does colour my view of the incident a little bit.

This just dropped:

 

[L3moning]

If Baldwin isn't criminally liable then she is.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

It's not comparable to that. A waiter doesn't have a responsibility to check that food is cooked.

Anyone firing a gun, prop or not, being told its not loaded or not, has a responsibility to check that its not loaded. That might well not be a legal responsibility (although it might in some places), but it is a responsibility. In the UK this would 100% meet the requirements to charge with manslaughter. I have no idea about New Mexico though.

But it was Supposed to be loaded. And it was. How would checking have helped?!?

It probably was checked. And they confirmed it was loaded, as expected

 

[Dawn Dayn]

But it was Supposed to be loaded. And it was. How would checking have helped?!?

It probably was checked. And they confirmed it was loaded, as expected

Nope, the assistant director handed it to Alec and shouted out Cold gun, this means the gun isn't loaded with anything, not blanks, not live bullets, nothing. So, did the armorer tell the assistant director it was a cold gun, obviously he didn't check. I think the blame will be put between these two, but obviously it was a sloppy low budget shoot.

 

[KINGAA]

Nope, the assistant director handed it to Alec and shouted out Cold gun, this means the gun isn't loaded with anything, not blanks, not live bullets, nothing. So, did the armorer tell the assistant director it was a cold gun, obviously he didn't check. I think the blame will be put between these two, but obviously it was a sloppy low budget shoot.

Yes, it’s down to low budget, shortcuts the armourer and props department and possibly the AD for not double checking the guns.

There was 3 on a tray, perhaps he did ask is this the cold gun and they got it mixed with another. It’ll all come out but the sheriff has confirmed Alec is a free man, they have been talking to the armourer who loaded the guns.

I don’t like Alec at all, he’s a complete and utter twit but I do feel for him over this situation. This whole thing is just awful.

 

[Cacacoisfarraige]

Systems are in place to make sure that suitably trained people are in charge of dangerous weapons and checks are put in place to ensure that a dangerous live weapon isn’t fired.
An investigation will find out where the system failed and who is responsible for its failure.

 

[Ndrangheta]

obviously it was a sloppy low budget shoot.

That's basically it as far as I can tell.

 

[Blurp]

Sky News says that at least one person had complained about gun safety on set.

http://news.sky.com/story/alec-bald...cated-it-was-safe-court-records-show-12441851

The actual protocol around gun safety on set according to industry experts (which includes not pointing them at anyone):

How prop guns work and safety around them

 

[NonDairyQueen]

Nope, the assistant director handed it to Alec and shouted out Cold gun, this means the gun isn't loaded with anything, not blanks, not live bullets, nothing. So, did the armorer tell the assistant director it was a cold gun, obviously he didn't check. I think the blame will be put between these two, but obviously it was a sloppy low budget shoot.

I don't think he will be responsible as an actor but may be as a producer. If his production company was responsible and they cut corners with staffing etc, then he will be responsible. Also, many people have said you shouldn't point a gun, whether loaded or not directly at someone

 

[Blurp]

This is the investigator who's been asked to go to the set. He says that the gun being pointed at someone is "an inexcusable violation of safety rules".