Gender Discussion #47

[Rach472]

Ugh I've had to leave my favourite fb group- it's for maximalist home decor - someone gas posted a pic of their Pride themed display for their toddlers room amongst other rainbow themed things lots of books including that granddad's camper and grandads pride that have been discussed on here and some monstrosity called "the drag Queens hips go swish swish swish" wtf! Anyone who has dared to question the appropriateness of this for a toddler has been branded a bigot and removed from the group! Loads of comments on "oh this is one of our favourites at drag queen story time!" Just gross. I think the majority of posters are in the US but it's so depressing.

On a different note sorry to merail, I'm more of a lurker on this thread but read every day. In the previous thread there was some talk of the inequality that still exists in households today with women doing the majority of chores and bearing the mental note. The comments really resonated with me and helped me to get up the courage to throw my husband out. I've been unhappy for quite a while and a few years ago discovered he'd cheated on me when I was pregnant but like a fool I believed all his protestations of being a changed man...took him less than 2 years to go back to slobbing out in front of the xbox whilst I worked 4 days a week and did everything in house, garden and having a 3 Yr old! I'm so fucking done with it. It's been 5 days and my god, the weight that has been lifted. Thank you all for your invaluable contributions to this thread, proud to stand you fucking terfy bigots

 

[CrabbyOyster]

If this womb transplant idea gains traction, I can see a lot of women opting out of the organ donor scheme. Imagine being a young woman in the future who dies as the result of an accident who hasn’t opted out. Theoretically, her womb could be harvested for experiments like these. Doesn’t bear thinking about.

They can have mine.

Its been cut open twice (once to deliver a baby in order to save my life and once in error during surgery for something else), it has stopped working due to an early menopause in my 20s, was kickstarted with drugs that caused it to clot and grow fibroids inside and out.

It causes monthly pain that makes me feel like a grappling hook and a chainsaw are doing battle in there and has done so for the last 23 years since a very traumatic pregnancy and birth of my son, and after a doctor messed up trying to insert a coil afterwards.

It bleeds randomly, sometimes it can drop a whole month's worth of blood in the time it takes me to go from sitting on a chair to standing up. It can even do that on the odd occasion when I'm delivering a lecture on front of several hundred people, and I get to stand there not daring to move or even BREATHE... just in case.

It makes funny squeaky noises from time to time - usually as it tries to rinse out the last of a 17 day bleed (if it hasn't dumped it all in one go....) and it can randomly shoot electric charges out to the inside of my hip bones with no warning that send me to my knees. Not that anyone would notice because, y'know, woman... we just crack on don't we?

It has played hide and seek with sonographers, it has been on film more times than an Oscar winner, and it has been seen from inside and outside my body more times than I like to think about as various teams over the years have sought to find out why it couldn't hold a pregnancy, could hold a pregnancy but not for long, was causing so much pain during my cycle, was out of shape, rejected the mesh meant to repair it, wouldn't bleed, then wouldn't stop bleeding...

So yeah. If anyone wants it, they can have it. They want to play at being a woman? Let them play with a bit more of what it actually feels like to be a woman. Because what I've experienced with my humble pouch of womanhood is only a fraction of what my sisterhood experience with theirs, and it pisses me off no end that there are men who think they can reduce us to a set of words or a set of ideas about what a woman looks like.

Being one is a completely different thing.

 

[veevee04]

I'm getting really pissed off with the trans ideology infecting childrens minds. I want to get off the planet. A preteen girl (MY DAUGHTER) can't have her hair cut into a pixie cut without other children asking what are her gender pronouns and what's her new name. She just wanted a change of hair style. Its 2023 Sexist stereotypes should be almost obsolete. it does not mean someone has gender dyphoria or has any intention of transitioning. I feel I have to shut that shit down and I'm constantly reinforcing with my daughter that going against stereotypes does not equal dysphoria. I'm sick of it I feel womens rights have gone backwards.

 

[threeSMEGfridges]

Maybe I’m just irrational and emotional BUT having recently suffered a

Spoiler

silent miscarriage

ANY TIM who thinks their “womanhood” is the same as mine AT ALL can go fuck themselves.

 

[nothanksbabes]

Why do they always parrot this most marginalised group bollocks? It‘s like it’s part of some TRA script they have to learn.

Anyone who believes the most marginalised women on earth are inexplicably trapped inside white Western men needs to have a fucking word with themselves.

 

[Venom]

I think a lot of folks assume they are hated for their sexuality/race/gender when in reality they are just unlikable cunts.

 

[Poppysmimi]

I have just started in the UK as a brownie leader. At a camping trip away we had a new girl start and arrive with a T-shirt that said “ask me my pronouns” on.

This child stated they wanted to be referred to as “They” and “IT”. I have calmly stated I have no intention of calling a child IT. If there is an issue with that then I will resign. I’m not contributing to a child growing up being referred to like that.

The child in question is 8.

 

[NinaStar90]

I've never been on this thread before, mostly because I am scared of being called a bigot but at this stage I'm sick of it.

Our local pride program has almost EVERYTHING directed to Trans people. The program doesn't even feature our hugely important clinic services (each year we signpost to local services) for HIV, women's services, harm reduction- none of it was there. There was an advert on where to get size 8+ heels though!! Yay!
I sat in our local gay bar yesterday just like- I'm not part of this community anymore. I am a bisexual woman, mostly dating women, who is no longer part of the gay community.

 

[Ganymede]

I very rarely post but thought I'd share my thoughts on the problem with the term ' cis'.

As an atheist to me it is no different to people insisting I must be Protestant because I'm not Catholic (I'm in west central Scotland so have had this all my life).

To be 'cisgender' one has to first believe such a thing as disembodied gendered souls that may or may not match the reality of sex exist (so called 'gender identities'). Most people globally do not share this religious belief.

In exactly the same way as it is offensive to insist I must be either Catholic or Protestant when I am neither because I do not share a religious belief in the Christian god it is offensive to insist I am either cis or trans when I am neither because I do not share a religious belief in disembodied gendered souls.

I, in common with the overwhelming majority of people on this planet, only have a sex.

 

[Metropolis]

I just wanted to pick up on this post from the end of the previous thread.

I do understand that it appears a bit of overkill to a lot of people (including those who are LGB) but to some people it's a comfort. Even though things are a lot better than they were, sadly a lot of people do still suffer from homophobia - either directly, or indirectly. The latter is particularly true for people who may be struggling with their sexuality and hear things around them that make them not want to come out.

I agree sometimes there are shops that are unlikely to need to fly the Pride flag, but for me, when I see it - especially in bars - I (and I know plenty of others) see it and think it's nice to be welcomed, or know that you wouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable if you were there with a same sex partner. It's just a small thing that makes you feel a bit less on edge or feel a bit happier about a place.

In my experience these days homophobia is more subtle, which is why I think some people think it's mostly over. Yes you rarely hear blatant discrimination, but I'm not out to everyone and no one has ever 'suspected' I'm gay (probably not the right word) until I've told them - so I'm sometimes in cloak mode and hear unguarded comments around me because people assume I'm straight. It's usually banal things like two men winding each other up about being gay - when they know darn fine that neither is. A small thing to some, but to others a subtle way of making gay people feel 'less than', because in that example it's seen as something to mock.

Sorry this is a bit longwinded but I do still think Pride has a function for people who feel less that comfortable about their sexuality as a "if you're a gay couple you're welcome here and we're on your side" kind of message. I think that can be hard for some straight people to understand because they're so used to being accepted for their sexuality and so many of them accept gay people that it seems unfathomable that gay people aren't always made to feel welcome.

Just my perspective anyway!

I don’t have an issue with establishments flying the traditional pride flag. It’s inclusive and non-confrontational (in my opinion). However, the progress flag, which is far more prevalent than the rainbow flag these days (and is indeed the one corporations adopt and paste all over their websites) is the antithesis of feeling welcoming to a lot of women. It feels hostile and is a constant reminder of the invasion of men into our spaces.

In the last thread you made the point that other causes could lobby for their events to go on longer rather than cut down pride. Well, women spent most of the last century lobbying for equal rights with their male counterparts and safe spaces like refuges and changing rooms. Now all that is being taken away at lightening speed because a bunch of men want to put on a frock and some lippy and call themselves women. These men are secure in their new LGBTQIA +++ identity and are readily incorporated into the umbrella and the progress flag. None of these people lobbied for their own spaces, they want ours; they are taking ours. And when we push back, we are called Nazis and threatened with rape and violence. Because Pride is now also associated with the TQIA +, there is a threatening undercurrent perceived by biological women (not all women, I know, but many of us). I would love for Pride to go back to the way it used to be.

 

[Scotch Mist]

 

[SnoopySnooper86]

Don’t lynch me, I’m liberal as they come but surely these trans issues are mental illness. I got horrific abuse for expressing that view.
---
It’s essentially like allowing an anorexia sufferer to undergo bariatric surgery.

 

[smellyfootballboots]

Just a reminder

 

[emmer_moans]

Another example of a triggered little shit worker working for a business that cancels a customer (video below - it is Piers, but he’s calm in this one). The CEO apologises as says the worker cancelled the subscription for the customer when they had no right to.
This is because we have snivelly little shits working now, who have grown up wrapped in cotton wool, not taught resilience, not taught that sometimes people will disagree with you, and their only method of coping is to cancel and shut down people. A bit like that Starbucks manager last month who couldn’t cope with a woman buying a coffee and ‘misgendering’ someone.

Dog gets cancelled.

The man being interviewed makes a valid point: sure, have a Pride Day, but a month? And businesses cancelling you for not buying a rainbow cover for your dog’s GPS tracking device? Mothers get 1 day, Fathers get 1 day, Women get 1 day, but a month to celebrate people’s sexuality?
Have a month, and if you don’t comply, you are an evil bigot. Don’t celebrate Father’s day? No one cares. Don’t celebrate St George's Day? No-one cares. Don’t celebrate New years? Fair play. Don’t watch the World Cup or Eurovision? Your perogative. But DARE to question why we need a whole month for Pride where you can’t opt out without someone calling you a bigot? Shame! Cancellation! Etc.

When you look at it like that, Pride really has become fanatical. The majority respect peoples’ sexuality, so why do we need to be forced to particulate in virtue signalling, publically, and at work, etc?

I’m no psychologist but if you shout at someone and force them to think a certain way, that’s a sure way to make that person 1) dislike you and 2) take the opposite view. People don’t like to be told they must think a certain way. This ‘T+’ hijacking of Pride is clearly starting to make people be done with Pride altogether and start blaming the whole instead of the few. How is this any different to us saying everyone must pray at 9am every day or else you are a heretic? I really hope the LGB can reclaim pride and the original flag from the TQ+, because it should be about you, not them (but still shouldn’t be a month forced upon workers and customers, sorry),

I’m sick of it, I thought people were peaking/ piquing but still this thought-policing exists.

Can we get back to doctors speaking biological truth?
Can we get back to women using bathrooms in peace and safety?
Can we go back to female athletes being able to pursue their career without being trounced by a wolf in the hen house? And not losing said career for calling a spade a spade?
Can we go back to authors being able to write books about fictional plots/worlds without being vilified for not being ‘xyz enough’?
Can we go back to not indoctrinating kids with drag queens doing slut drops at reading hour?
Can we go back to people being about to post things without having to reverse ferret?
Can we go back to the law recognising womens rights?
Can we go back to being able to go to work and do a good day’s work and go home, without being watched for participation/non participation in ideology?

As a society we need to stop with this idea that we need to bludgeon people into acting a certain way/ believing in a certain way/ agreeing with something. Usually, if you have to bludgeon people into agreeing, and cut them off financially or reputationally or prevent access to servies etc, then it’s because you can’t convince them organically and truthfully. Plus, that’s tyranny. You might gain some compliance but you don’t gain people’s full devotion that way. Like virtue signalling is just a way for some to protect themselves and also give them a stick to beat others with. I think we are doomed as a society as we now have young workers having tantrums and cancelling orders, we now have CEOs who have to apologise for stances their bottom tier workers have done (one hand doesn’t know what the other is doing).

I’m not very coherent with these things because i do struggle with writing arguments properly, but you get the gist.
In all I am not by default a hateful person, I am not usually a complainer. I used to give people the benefit of the doubt, but i am tired of what is happening, tiered of being told women can’t question the ideology, tiered of being fed all this marketing dross all the time, tired of seeing debate shut down by weak youths who can’t understand peoples’ freedom of thought. I’m tired also of seeing rhetoric that anyone white (and often male) are the devil incarnate and not to be trusted or deserving of opportunity when often these deomised males come from poor economic backgrounds. I’m tired of anyone questioning this ideology of being called far right. I’m tired of seeing parents being absolutely gaslit by schools and government. Where does this end, seriously?

If you made it this far, here’s to common sense!

 

[VC10]

Women already have a name as Human Beings - Women.

Only Women bleed as only Women have periods.

Human Beings are Mammals.

XX, XY Chromosomes........ even intersex people are either XX, or XY.

That's immutable scientific/biological fact . DNA, Nature.

If a transed Woman living as a Man suffers cancer of the Cervix then they will be operated on as a Woman.

If a transed Man living as a Woman suffers Prostate cancer then they will be operated on as a Man.

I couldn't give a flying fuck if that offends or upsets anyone because the ones who shout down fact are only out for hate, to cause trouble, hate Women , or to upset or to encroach on Majority Rights and Legislation.



I like to deal with the facts.

 

[Peachsquish]

 

[DoraMaar]

Peter Tatchell has reached a new low ...

 

[House of Carbonara]

I thought some of those posts were interesting but they got too much in the end. Felt like it was bordering on trauma dumping (and definitely sympathy fishing yes). Quite telling too that this thread is predominantly women, I assume they thought we were a captive audience. Everything they posted was about them and how hard it has been (which I don't doubt), but never once gave any consideration to how women have been treated since all of this shit began.

Probably because they simply cannot relate.

I've felt the same for a while with the "reasonable" trans crowd trying to move into GC discussions and spaces and can't really explain why I'm uncomfortable with it. But again it's expecting women to move over and make space for men. I mean, I don't really care if they've had surgeries and are taking hormones. They are still born male. They are not a woman. They are a trans woman (or TiM, even) and their experience is so vastly different to mine. As long as someone is born and socialised as male, they will never understand what it is like to be a woman.

That's just the truth.

Hello! Just found the GD threads, and happy I have. You all give me hope that common sense isn't dead but just in hiding right now...
The last line of your post sums the situation we're in beautifully - I love Japan, love the food, am fascinated by the culture, want to visit, even considered learning the language. Can I claim to be Japanese? Of course not. I belong to a totally different culture, and would never be considered anything other than a Western woman by Japanese people.
I have no problem with people living their life as they see fit because it's their life and not mine. I do have a major problem with a minority with a specific set of views expecting everyone else to conform to them. Misogyny is again rampant, calling women 'no-men' reduces them to
a commodity like breeding cattle. I fought all my working life to be taken seriously despite not being a man, and I am not ready to sit quietly in a corner waiting for men to tell me
what I should be doing.
The day I let a TW explain to me what is like to be a woman is the day Satan will be skating to work.
Sorry for the rant, you lovelies. I have been silently angry about this for some time.

 

[JakeM]

I have autism and I will NEVER be a part of this cult. Why would I want to align myself with a group of people who make a mockery of women and brainwashes children? No thank you.

This is my first comment on here but I’ve been reading these threads for a while now. Couldn’t agree more with what’s being said and you all have my support. The pushback has finally begun!

 

[Infernal Love]

I had to go to a meeting with teams from across the UK yesterday. One woman (even though she's straight) is all about the they/them bollocks and objected to researchers trying to reach people via Mumsnet ads as it put off 'queer parents'.
In the break, a guy rushed over and I could hear their conversation. He was saying 'I've got a trans kid too. We're just waiting for a few years before top surgery overseas' this was met with the same kind of reaction as if he was doing back to back marathons for charity. Child abuse, pure and simple.

If another Dad had said "Yeah, my daughter is very flat chested despite being very stereotypically girlie, so we just really kept an eye on her breasts all through puberty and really monitored their growth and as soon as she was old enough we took her abroad to get some big 1990's bolt-on titties! We are ALL euphoric!" Can you imagine? He'd be reported straight away (correctly) for being a weird perv obsessed with his developing daughter's body. Where's the difference?!