Gender Discussion #35

[nothanksbabes]

I would take that as that you can't imagine it either, but I trust the people I've heard who say that that is how they feel. That their sex doesn't align with that of their mind, so they seek gender change in order to achieve that alignment. Sex as I said earlier is obviously immutable, pretty sure all trans people I have listened to have said that. No trans person I have heard from has ever claimed to change their sex.



I am very aware of this, after my partner at the age of 20 headbutted me and I walked down to the local NHS in Kent I began to recieve text messages that he was going to do such to himself and burn the house down if I didn't return. So I do appreciate that. But that doesn't negate trans people harming themselves. They aren't holding suicide over your head like a weapon, from what I have read and listened to its a very serious concern as has been in the past when it wasn't so openly safer to be gay or lesbian.


Anyway, please do guys let me know if you want me to go away? I'm not trolling, just genuinely giving my feelings and trying to learn from all of yours.

I have body dysmorphia, at times it has been debilitating to the point that was prevented living a normal life, so I think I have some understanding of what it feels like for my physical appearance to be at odds with my feelings. I didn't think I should be the opposite sex, but I couldn't look in a mirror, or at photos of myself, and when I did see photos of myself I experienced something very similar to the feelings of dysphoria described by transgender people.

I'm very glad that nobody told me my feelings about myself were correct though, and instead I had therapy to help me accept reality. I didn't need my feelings about myself affirmed, I needed to be told I was fine as I was, which everyone is. Gender non-conforming people should be accepted and celebrated as they are, but they are not the opposite sex. And if you think there aren't trans people saying they literally are the opposite sex, you really haven't looked very hard. Try India (formerly Jonathan) Willoughby and Katy (formerly Colin) Montgomerie for a start.

And I disagree that the threat of suicide is not being held over our heads - it very much is. You brought it into this discussion as an example as to why women should accept any man who says he "feels" like a woman into our spaces unless he harms himself. Holding the threat of self harm over women's heads is precisely what that is, it doesn't really matter how it's dressed up.

 

[Peachsquish]

Seen on twitter, apologies if I already posted it.

 

[Our Cilla]

Who's insane enough to vote for a man in heels and lipstick?

I bet there will be loads who do it and think its funny without thinking of what this will mean for Women in politics going forward.

 

[SILKWORM]

Admittedly, I've been skimming but to be honest @SueDoyou most of your points we've all been over a million times either in past gender threads or even in other spaces....some of us have been at it for years. It gets tiring.

Hats off to the people here who still have the patience to interact with someone who comes in and goes over the most basic points thinking we just haven't been exposed to alternative perspectives or haven't ever spoken to trans people in our lives.

I've been wondering if we could make some sort of sticky document that we could refer new people who come here to? It'd save a lot of time and energy.

 

[maytoseptember]

An interloper in the thread! Was also going to reply because I thought it was an honest question. I must be gullible

I did reply but even then I was suspicious of this new, pro-trans poster. My spidey senses were tingling. I should have trusted my gut.

Our Irish “doctor” is still spouting bollocks on other threads btw

 

[Blond3g1rl]

A friend of mine is a nurse and said a 10 year old has come in to see a GP about transitioning. Not sure which sex… who the fuck is taking their child to a GP at 10 to discuss this?! If at 10, my daughter says she wants to be a boy, I’ll ask what makes her feel like a boy, explore that, and say that her body is going to go through lots of changes soon, etc etc. If it really seemed like she was suffering, it’s MENTAL suffering. Next step- a therapist to work through the distress. Not to get her puberty blockers
My daughter (teen) corrected my ‘he’ for Sam Smith the other day. I said, ‘I use sex based pronouns, he’s a man.’ She didn’t actually argue back. Progress?!?
I like this thread but without it, it’s quite easy to go a few days without having to think about all this shit isn’t it?

Sam smith is one of the most odious humans on this planet. He makes me want to vom in the unholy video

 

[Glortard]

Drag is only adult entertainment if the the act is adult. Just say it as it is, you hate seeing men in a dress and think its inappropriate. I've only had a daughter but if I had a son who wanted to wear a dress, go for it.

yeah it’s perfectly normal to have a man in skintight clothing with his bulge clearly visible reading stories to children in a library.

it’s certainly not adult entertainment…….it’s just plain grooming.

 

[weeweegie]

The entitlement is quite astounding.

And if what he's saying is true/valid, why isn't he attracted to his fellow men in lipstick?

BIB - say this louder for the trans women in the back! If this logic is right then this TIM should be happy with another TIM, penis and all. To not to is to be hateful and terfy

 

[Blond3g1rl]

So, how would you differenciate between us and trans women?

We are women. They are blokes playing dress up

 

[Peachsquish]

Is that though that the process is a lot harder to achieve and in itself takes time. I can't imagine feeling the opposite sex in my head and then having to go through what I assume is all those obstacles without any form of severe anxiety or social fear.

I've been reading up on this Blanchard thing, he seems to put trans people in two boxes, either homosexual men who succumb to societal pressure not to be feminine men or autogynophiles whose sexual arousal am I right in saying is the idea of themselves as a woman? Do you really think they are the primary motivations for a transgender person to transition? Not every trans person from what I've read and watched online thinks that way at all. Still educating myself greatly but it all seems quite flimsy and a real way to shut down how transgender people get to where they are and box them off. The idea that a majority of trans people are sacrificing friends, jobs, their trip to the supermarket, their relationship with their family all for a mastubatory urge is weak.

Reading more and more into it there seems to be extreme radicals on both sides and everyone is yelling. Of course I understand not wanting to share a changing room with a predator or someone who makes me feel uncomfortable but I also understand a genuine trans woman not wanting to use a restroom with men for the very same reason you probably don't want to.




I think there is self ID in the south of Ireland too, albeit not in the United Kingdom but the ceiling hasn't falling down there yet and its been in action for over 7 years.

Self Id means any man, that includes the local paedophile, your violent ex husband, the bloke in the bar whose attentions you don't want will legally be able to follow you or your child into toilets into woman's refuges and instead of you being able to get support to get them to leave from the police if necessary you will be told to be kind that you are bigoted.
Google Katie Dolatowski or Barbie Kardashian.
If you honestly think predators won't use the loophole that self id allows then at best you are extremely naive.

 

[Falkor]

Welcome, Sue There's a reasonably wide range of views on these threads (although the people who come in telling us that we're all a bunch of transphobic bigots never seem to stick around to argue their point very long for some reason). Personally my line in the sand is that the sex-based exemptions in the Equality Act 2010 should remain sex-based and not be over-ruled by a change in gender, which is what is frighteningly close to becoming law in Scotland right now and in practice is being eroded every day in sport, prisons, rape counselling, women's shelters, changing rooms etc. Other than that, I'm with JK Rowling: Dress however you please, call yourself whatever you like, sleep with any consenting adult who'll have you, live your best life in peace and security.

 

[weeweegie]

The reason we are all here chatting anonymously is because there are very few other places online you can do so without being screamed at for being transphobic. So as much as I like a bit of debate and love peaking people, I don’t really have the energy to answer questions we’ve gone over so many times.

Thankfully the wiki is there and anyone is free to grab a cuppa and sit and read through all our threads. Warning though - some content is not for the faint hearted.

ANYWAY, I found myself unable to resist replying to some fool on Instagram regarding the erasure of the word woman and mother on maternity policies and have found myself in a back and forth argument about my supposed gender identity. She keeps saying you identify as a woman and a mother, that’s great! After I said no, I don’t have a gender identity. My sex is female and I have a child. These are facts. She still came back to insist that woman and mother are ‘identities’ I choose! How the hell could I choose to be female? Pretty sure I was born this way. Honest to God, I am so annoyed at myself for engaging with someone like that.

 

[Infernal Love]

Strange how these men are falling over themselves to tell us how funny this "Female Comedian" is when any other time a woman is on a stand up show all you read is blokes falling over themselves to say "Women aren't funny!"

Wonder why....

 

[skronkywildcat]

Can we just block this arsehole and move on? I think they are too thick/damaged to warrant engagement.

 

[holliebollie]

A friend of mine is a nurse and said a 10 year old has come in to see a GP about transitioning. Not sure which sex… who the fuck is taking their child to a GP at 10 to discuss this?! If at 10, my daughter says she wants to be a boy, I’ll ask what makes her feel like a boy, explore that, and say that her body is going to go through lots of changes soon, etc etc. If it really seemed like she was suffering, it’s MENTAL suffering. Next step- a therapist to work through the distress. Not to get her puberty blockers
My daughter (teen) corrected my ‘he’ for Sam Smith the other day. I said, ‘I use sex based pronouns, he’s a man.’ She didn’t actually argue back. Progress?!?
I like this thread but without it, it’s quite easy to go a few days without having to think about all this shit isn’t it?

 

[mindlessness]

Have a fantastic Christmas! I actually really appreciate this, zero sarcasm or anything. Typing it a hard one to avoid that.

It's November 9th.
There's 46 more days until Christmas. On average a woman is killed ever three days by a man in the UK. So that's 15 or so women still to be murdered by men before Christmas. How fucking horrid is that?

Men still killing one woman every three days in UK – It is time for “Deeds not Words” – Femicide Census

www.femicidecensus.org

There's a reason our feminism prioritises biological women over trans-identified males.

I don't see genuine transgender women as men.

How do you know who is genuine or not? Who gets to decide? Do they need a neo vagina? fake breasts? Do they need to wear a skirt? Wear makeup? pitch their voice up? giggle coquettishly?

Which says that this space is not what I thought it was when I entered admittedly. I really thought it was a gender discussion thread, you should change the name to gender critical discussion, because if there is no scope for anyone with differing views to enter it seems a bit misleading.

We're happy to have the discussion, it's just people tend to leave - just like you're doing - when they discover we're not willing to agree biological men are women.

Maybe the answer to everyone's fears in most instances is the access of a those third spaces for transgender people.

Trans people don't want a third space. We've already pointed this out to you.

 

[DryHeave]

This image has popped up a few times and it's so sad what they have done to themselves.

It also seems to start to explain why...

A not-femme, not-butch lesbian
A bum-fluff gay guy ageing out of being valued for his youthfulness

Both possibly feeling unremarkable and overlooked.

 

[nothanksbabes]

I'll never get over being called conservative or some sort of tool of the patriarchy by MEN whose entire identities are built around defining womanhood around their own experiences.

When your entire belief system is constructed on being able to say the opposite of the truth and have it accepted as fact (men are women if they say so) then I suppose "left wing women are conservatives" really isn't any sort of stretch at all. They inhabit a luxury world where they can fart out any old incomprehensible statement and it's irrefutable fact because they say so. It's pure fucking male privilege.

 

[Tea_and_Biscuits]

BIB this is the problem.

It's either worthwhile for over 25s or it isn't.

If I turn round tomorrow and say I'm a man I'm suddenly eligible but today I'm not??

But trans rights are human rights

I agree, it's crap.
Unfortunately female healthcare isn't prioritised in the same way that male health, (specifically white male health) is. I work in medical research so it's a big bugbear of mine. Women are often expected to cope with higher amounts of pain during clinical procedures as they 'go through childbirth'. So for instance hysteroscopies (viewing of the uterus with a camera often with tissue removal for biopsy) are routinely done without any pain relief but to me it's unethical to ignore the pain that a patient is suffering based on assumptions based their sex. Male patients will generally be given pain relief for similar invasive procedures. Sorry for the rant, I know it's a bit off topic but it just makes me very angry!

 

[HoGi]

Well this is really helpful

Anger as police REFUSE to say if they are hunting a man or a woman as they issue pictures of purple-wigged dress-wearer after suspect exposed themselves and made lewd hand gestures to girls aged 15 and 16 on train

And the thing is everyone knows it's a man. The flashing tells you everything you need to know