Gender Discussion #27

[smellyfootballboots]

Isnt that odd....I read it differently..........I picked up on ''We are in a state of emergency'' Womens rights are being cancelled, and ''Its coming here too.''

I thought she was warning everyone that we need to be careful, what is happening in the US could also happen here too!

I read it the same as you.

This entire trans/women erasing tit show comes from the US. Is financed by the US. Is pushed by the US government, LGBT orgs and US liberal identity politics. They are trying to bring in identity politics in the UK via Labour/LibDems/Green parties, but it is being resisted basically because the basis of identity politics only works and is relevant in the US.

This is what I took her message to read in Layman's terms.

How can people really not see the correlation between stripping women back to being ‘cervix owners’ or ‘uterus carriers’, and the stripping back of their rights?
I’m sick to the back teeth of messaging that tries to tell me I’m part of the problem because my definition of women focuses on ‘cis women’ only.

We are not cis women, we are women. Nothing else.

They won't see it, because it would mean realising that they are and have been wrong. Blaming others is easy. Accepting the responsibility of the outcome of your own actions is a bitterly, bitter pill to swallow.

 

[ElektraWintour]

Sorry to change subject but I know the latest London production of Legally Blonde has been discussed before and now there’s video evidence of the ridiculous casting

 

[Notworthy]

I know this isn't super comforting because the news still really sucks; but Abortion in the UK is protected by the Abortion Act of 1967. That's part of the issue in the US - there's no federal law protecting it. As mentioned in that that Spectator article @petitspois shared, Obama in 2007 said he would push a law through codifying Roe if elected President ...but then he didn't.

On Abortion, Obama Is Drawn Into Debate He Hoped to Avoid (Published 2009)

The president’s delicate balancing act over the explosive issue is being put to the test with the confluence of two coming events.

www.nytimes.com

It's hard in the UK context - Labour would be better for the NHS and women's access to abortion, but they won't actually use the word woman half the time .

Reassuringly even a fair few Tories have criticised the news from the States, so I can't see Westminster changing abortion law in the UK. Maybe I'm naively optimistic though.

Abortion doesn't factor in elections here so I can't imagine it changing here unless the % of religious zealots rises and as Brits are becoming less religious in general, thats unlikely. Gun control and abortion are big vote winners/losers in the US hence the problems they have legislating

 

[rainbowtapirs]

I have a bunch of thoughts that I’m not sure I can even be bothered to put into paragraphs right now, so:

•blaming radfems is classic victim blaming. Some do end up having dealings with right wingers, but that’s because they’re pushed to out of desperation because our rights are under attack - many do it as a ‘least worst’ option.
•I can’t remember who I’m quoting, but whoever it was who originally said “women are treated as private property on the right, and public property on the left” was absolutely correct.
•the idiots who thought naming us based on our capacity to reproduce was acceptable had a hand in this. Dehumanising us and defining us as breeding machines was always going to play into the pocket of the right wingers.
•this is such clear proof that your biological sex determines your lot in life - you can try to run from misogyny and from being classed as a woman, but your femaleness will always impact you, and you’ll always be controlled by men because of it unless we rip down the system that allows males power over females.
•I feel extremely sorry for ‘cis’ straight women in particular right now. Whilst it does affect all women, they’re the primary group affected - they’re constantly told that they’re privileged, and people sometimes try to convince them they should hold some sort of guilt for their ‘privilege’ - it’s outrageous and untrue.
•If I see another stupid “this disproportionately affects the LGBT community,” tweet, I think my head will explode. The effects on lesbians are confined to rape and the odd one in an undesirable situation for various niche reasons, gay men are the least impacted demographic, bi women are on balance slightly less likely to be impacted than straight women because there’s a chance they’re with a woman, bi men will only be impacted if they have a female partner and don’t personally need abortions, the same applies to TiM, then a high proportion of TiF are in fact lesbians.
•I do, however, feel very sorry for women who have traits that do/will in fact restrict their ability to access abortions - poverty, race, certain cultures and religions, abusive partners/family members and disabilities.

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

A friend in the USA attended an abortion protest today and is apologising on her social media for saying "pregnant women" instead of "pregnant people." She's 51 years old, has three children, and should know damn well where they came from. It's painful

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

Sorry to change subject but I know the latest London production of Legally Blonde has been discussed before and now there’s video evidence of the ridiculous casting

One of these is not like the others.
Also can't sing.

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

He is painfully cringe!! He sounds like Milhouse from The Simpsons

Sick of seeing sexist men saying things like "western women won't support Ukrainian women coming to Europe/UK/USA etc as refugees, because Ukrainian women are so much hotter and western women can't compete." No feminist is saying that. A couple of months ago I was claiming UC between jobs and at the job centre saw a (young, pretty) Ukrainian refugee in tears because they had refused to transfer her to another job centre, and told her that if she was having trouble getting to this one - which was miles from where she lived - she should request to be placed with another host family in the local area, i.e. taken away from the only friends or "home" she had in the UK. And she's someone who was lucky enough to make it to the UK rather than being raped or killed at the border, and here are all these men waiting to prey on Ukrainian women refugees. Disgusting

 

[rainbowtapirs]

Sick of seeing sexist men saying things like "western women won't support Ukrainian women coming to Europe/UK/USA etc as refugees, because Ukrainian women are so much hotter and western women can't compete."

They show exactly how they view and value women when they come out with this tit, and they’re under the illusion that that’s how it works for us too. It’s the exact same as when TiM talk about how pretty they are, and how they’re better looking than women so we’re jealous. They can’t wrap their heads around the fact that we don’t see other women as entirely worthless and disposable if we don’t think they’re fuckable, and assume we’re all desperate to be validated by men.

Obviously there is evidence that pretty privilege is a thing, and there are women who’ll throw each other under the bus for a man, but by and large things don’t work like that within our community.

 

[GladiatorReady]

One of the worst takes I've ever seen.

Also, a lot of them aren't on blockers and, even if they are, they can still get a woman pregnant. I remember reading on r/actuallesbians a couple of years ago - a US teenager became pregnant after the transwoman promised her that it couldn't happen. The transwoman instantly left and she ended up having an abortion. Which would likely not be possible these days.

 

[HockyRorror]

One of these is not like the others.
Also can't sing.

Sounded like cats being swung around in a bag - and that’s being kind.

 

[maytoseptember]

State of this ugly, pornsick man. I think they can't make me angrier yet they manage it.

Oh I remember him. He’s the one with a tattoo of a woman with a boner

This is men punishing women for having sex.

Absolutely this, always and forever.

Because whenever you dip your toe into this debate, all you see is men saying “close your legs then” and “stop being whores then”.

They don’t care about the unwanted babies who will be birthed and killed, dumped in fire station drop boxes or relinquished to the foster care system. All they care about is punishing women by forcing them to bear children against their will.

 

[smellyfootballboots]

I have a bunch of thoughts that I’m not sure I can even be bothered to put into paragraphs right now, so:

•blaming radfems is classic victim blaming. Some do end up having dealings with right wingers, but that’s because they’re pushed to out of desperation because our rights are under attack - many do it as a ‘least worst’ option.
•I can’t remember who I’m quoting, but whoever it was who originally said “women are treated as private property on the right, and public property on the left” was absolutely correct.
•the idiots who thought naming us based on our capacity to reproduce was acceptable had a hand in this. Dehumanising us and defining us as breeding machines was always going to play into the pocket of the right wingers.
•this is such clear proof that your biological sex determines your lot in life - you can try to run from misogyny and from being classed as a woman, but your femaleness will always impact you, and you’ll always be controlled by men because of it unless we rip down the system that allows males power over females.
•I feel extremely sorry for ‘cis’ straight women in particular right now. Whilst it does affect all women, they’re the primary group affected - they’re constantly told that they’re privileged, and people sometimes try to convince them they should hold some sort of guilt for their ‘privilege’ - it’s outrageous and untrue.
•If I see another stupid “this disproportionately affects the LGBT community,” tweet, I think my head will explode. The effects on lesbians are confined to rape and the odd one in an undesirable situation for various niche reasons, gay men are the least impacted demographic, bi women are on balance slightly less likely to be impacted than straight women because there’s a chance they’re with a woman, bi men will only be impacted if they have a female partner and don’t personally need abortions, the same applies to TiM, then a high proportion of TiF are in fact lesbians.
•I do, however, feel very sorry for women who have traits that do/will in fact restrict their ability to access abortions - poverty, race, certain cultures and religions, abusive partners/family members and disabilities.

Are you an American?

Why are you using the insult and gender ideology language of *cis?* It is incredibly insulting.

Unless you are American, you are wrong when you pity straight, white women outside of the disunited states of men. We have voices and we are being heard.

Sex based rights for women are vital. For some reason the US the second wave of feminism in the 80's ruined everything for women today. Of course, women are so much more than our bodies, but to outright deny that female oppression is not due to our reproductive capabilities is insulting and absurd. The US range of feminism is ludicrous and dehumanising, this is why they have now dehumanised themselves most US women cannot describe themselves, and have accepted men as women, just because they say so; when it is a complete and utter lie.

I don't know what the US issue with women really is. I don't know or understand why US women are so full of self loathing?

Women are amazing human beings. As a woman, as a mother, I really don't mind being known as the sex who can create life, for me that is just an outstanding accomplishment that women deserve respect and admiration for; oh! And I run a successful company too, but I live in a country that respects women and everything we can accomplish and bring to the table.

What this ruling and the trans tit show has taught the world is that we cannot look to the US for guidance anymore. From the school shootings to women being erased as a sex class, to the homeless population, to Biden putting up the cost of Medicare, the US is a dumpster fire that is an embarrassment to it's citizens. There never was an American dream, the country is a shithole.

I don't give a tit about the GDP.

One of the worst takes I've ever seen.

Also, a lot of them aren't on blockers and, even if they are, they can still get a woman pregnant. I remember reading on r/actuallesbians a couple of years ago - a US teenager became pregnant after the transwoman promised her that it couldn't happen. The transwoman instantly left and she ended up having an abortion. Which would likely not be possible these days.

Abortion in the US isn't banned. It has been put in the hands of the individual states. There are 18 of the 50 states known to want to bring abortion limit to 6 weeks. Of course, what this means in reality is that abortion will be down to financial means. Do you have the means to travel out of state for an abortion of you need one?

 

[rainbowtapirs]

Are you an American?

Why are you using the insult and gender ideology language of *cis?* It is incredibly insulting.

Unless you are American, you are wrong when you pity straight, white women outside of the disunited states of men. We have voices and we are being heard.

Sex based rights for women are vital. For some reason the US the second wave of feminism in the 80's ruined everything for women today. Of course, women are so much more than our bodies, but to outright deny that female oppression is not due to our reproductive capabilities is insulting and absurd. The US range of feminism is ludicrous and dehumanising, this is why they have now dehumanised themselves most US women cannot describe themselves, and have accepted men as women, just because they say so; when it is a complete and utter lie.

I don't know what the US issue with women really is. I don't know or understand why US women are so full of self loathing?

Women are amazing human beings. As a woman, as a mother, I really don't mind being known as the sex who can create life, for me that is just an outstanding accomplishment that women deserve respect and admiration for; oh! And I run a successful company too, but I live in a country that respects women and everything we can accomplish and bring to the table.

What this ruling and the trans tit show has taught the world is that we cannot look to the US for guidance anymore. From the school shootings to women being erased as a sex class, to the homeless population, to Biden putting up the cost of Medicare, the US is a dumpster fire that is an embarrassment to it's citizens. There never was an American dream, the country is a shithole.

I don't give a tit about the GDP.


Abortion in the US isn't banned. It has been put in the hands of the individual states. There are 18 of the 50 states known to want to bring abortion limit to 6 weeks. Of course, what this means in reality is that abortion will be down to financial means. Do you have the means to travel out of state for an abortion of you need one?

Fortunately not, I’m British.

The inverted commas show that I clearly don’t respect ‘cis’ as a term to describe women, I was discussing how a particular group are labelled and stereotyped as having a major advantage in society at large, though this sex-based form of oppression targets them the most.

I never mentioned white women, though I’ll feel as sorry for them as I like, thank you very much. There’s no shortage of straight, white women who are going to suffer because of these laws in an endless number of ways, even those outside of America. I’m not sure why you think they’re being heard, but I don’t feel that way - I’m glad you do at least.

 

[thegirlscout]

How can people really not see the correlation between stripping women back to being ‘cervix owners’ or ‘uterus carriers’, and the stripping back of their rights?
I’m sick to the back teeth of messaging that tries to tell me I’m part of the problem because my definition of women focuses on ‘cis women’ only.

There is a person in the Roe vs Wade thread who said that this has no bearing on what happened yesterday because there has always been policing on women. Which I get but I also think we are at stage where people in power are saying ‘men can have a cervix’, ‘a woman’s penis’, ‘people who give birth’, etc. How can you protect the sex based rights of women if tou can’t even name them?

Sorry to change subject but I know the latest London production of Legally Blonde has been discussed before and now there’s video evidence of the ridiculous casting

None of them can sing? It sounds god awful!

 

[smellyfootballboots]

Fortunately not, I’m British.

The inverted commas show that I clearly don’t respect ‘cis’ as a term to describe women, I was discussing how a particular group are labelled and stereotyped as having a major advantage in society at large, though this sex-based form of oppression targets them the most.

I never mentioned white women, though I’ll feel as sorry for them as I like, thank you very much. There’s no shortage of straight, white women who are going to suffer because of these laws in an endless number of ways, even those outside of America. I’m not sure why you think they’re being heard, but I don’t feel that way - I’m glad you do at least.

Laws in the US affect no one other than the US. As I stated earlier, abortion is not banned, it has been put in the hands of each state. This means for many women needing abortion over 6 weeks of pregnancy, their fate will come down to if they can afford to travel to another state.

I am English. I really don't agree with you believing that straight women (I read your comment as saying white - sorry) are more affected by such laws, ALL women, of all colours, class and walks of life are affected by them. Thankfully the UK government does not get involved in abortion rights (even though the religious groups do try). There seems to be a lot of faff today conflating the events and appalling treatment of women in the US, to every other country in the western world (Although women in Tranada, Ireland, NZ and Aus are f@cked for decades). What happens in the US can bloody stay there. They have proven themselves to sadly lacking in the ability to lead. They can't even make a watchable movie without endless virtue signalling and token box ticking.

I've been in this fight for a long time, I don't care for the captured countries, the women have allowed it to happen and are still standing by their losses. Believe me when I say from 2021 to 2022 alone, women's rights groups in the UK are being heard loud and clear.

 

[rainbowtapirs]

Laws in the US affect no one other than the US. As I stated earlier, abortion is not banned, it has been put in the hands of each state. This means for many women needing abortion over 6 weeks of pregnancy, their fate will come down to if they can afford to travel to another state.

I am English. I really don't agree with you believing that straight women (I read your comment as saying white - sorry) are more affected by such laws, ALL women, of all colours, class and walks of life are affected by them. Thankfully the UK government does not get involved in abortion rights (even though the religious groups do try). There seems to be a lot of faff today conflating the events and appalling treatment of women in the US, to every other country in the western world (Although women in Tranada, Ireland, NZ and Aus are f@cked for decades). What happens in the US can bloody stay there. They have proven themselves to sadly lacking in the ability to lead. They can't even make a watchable moving without endless virtue signalling and token box ticking.

I've been in this fight for a long time, I don't care for the captured countries, the women have allowed it to happen and are still standing by their losses. Believe me when I say from 2021 to 2022 alone, women's rights groups in the UK are being heard loud and clear.

They can affect those of us outside of the US - if an American woman dies because she can’t get an abortion and she has friends and family abroad, they will be effected. The cultural implications of what’s going on in the US do travel over here too, though I’m not suspecting we’re about to further restrict abortion here. Yes, so it’s de facto illegal for a lot of women now, even if it’s possible for some of them to travel to other parts of the country.

Don’t worry. Fair enough - I agree it impacts us all, though as a lesbian I feel it affects me significantly less than straight women. I’d still require an abortion if I was raped, but my chances of needing those services are fortunately very low. I’d very much like the US to keep their ideas on society to themselves, though I personally feel for women all over the world who are suffering because of misogyny, even if some have inadvertently encouraged it.

Thank you, that’s very reassuring to hear. I constantly feel like we’re just going round in circles/society is becoming even more accepting of this nonsense, but I hope we feel a bigger shift soon.

 

[Vanelope]

I can see what you mean.....only........UK politics has changed things massively over the past 5 or 6 years.

I hope that abortion is an absolute non-issue in the UK, but then again, I never ever believed that anyone would take the UK out of Europe with Brexit, and I never believed that the UK government would try to stop the European court of justice from making decisions about UK cases,

With the mess that the NHS is currently in, and its getting worse, who knows what might happen here? I never expected the USA to allow the banning of abortion either. 10 years ago, I would have said that abortion was an absolute non issue in the USA as well! Or maybe no a complete non issue, but one that wouldnt actually counterbalance all the sensible medical information on offer!

Having a fundamental right in case law only as in Roe v Wade was very risky - the UK has the 1967 Abortion Act which no political party has proposed to withdraw and the UK courts have no say over it.

 

[Cocobaby09]

I think women’s rights have always been threatened in America due to the prevalence of their ultra religious beliefs. I would like to think we aren’t like that over here in the UK

We aren’t like that at all. I think people are panicking unnecessarily

 

[smellyfootballboots]

Having a fundamental right in case law only as in Roe v Wade was very risky - the UK has the 1967 Abortion Act which no political party has proposed to withdraw and the UK courts have no say over it.

The US liberal god Barack Obama campaigned on putting this amendment in the constitution. He had the numbers to do it too - however when he got into office he changed his mind and never mentioned it again.

 

[jolly_parsley]

The guy who detransitioned whose Twitter thread was doing the rounds has waived his anonymity and spoken to a Mail on Sunday journalist.

Man suing the NHS over trans surgery he regrets shares his ordeal

EXCLUSIVE: Ritchie Herron, 35, has waived his right to anonymity to share his ordeal after he claims the NHS failed to take his mental health crisis into account before performing irreversible surgery.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The fact that he decided to start treatment in his 20s, had the surgery at 31 and 4 years later regrets everything just goes to show that there’s no way teenagers should be making these decisions. It’s a really devastating read and I feel so sorry for him. I’m still not sure how I feel about him suing the NHS for it though but I guess it’ll bring this issue to attention like Keira Bell.